Court decides parent’s refusal to vaccinate kids is not “free exercise of religion”
The US District Court for the Northern District of Ohio has ruled (pdf) last week that a parent’s refusal to vaccinate her children against diseases is not a “free exercise” of religion, and is tantamount to neglect.
In April 2010, the Tuscarawas County (Ohio) Jobs and Family Services (TCJFS) took custody of the children of Charity and Brock Schenker as a result of a domestic violence matter between the parents. TCJFS determined that the children were “neglected and dependent” and worked out case plans for the parents which included psychiatric evaluations, drug testing and supervised visitation of their children. When TCJFS asked about the children’s immunizations, according to Secular News Daily, “Mrs. Schenker claimed she had religious objections to immunizations. The court informed her that the immunizations would be ordered.”
As a result of recommendations of court-ordered psychiatric evaluations and positive random drug tests, Mrs. Schenker (who subsequently divorced her husband) visitations were terminated, and TCJFS filed a motion for permanent custody of her children in August 2011. According to the Secular News Daily, “the county laid out as evidence a number of instances in which Schenker did not comply with orders, refused home inspections, and more. But Schenker sued with eight claims, including conspiracy claims and, most significantly, claims that her First Amendment right to free expression of religion was violated.”
In its decision, the District Court found that “the mere assertion of a religious belief . . . does not automatically trigger First Amendment protections.” The court also stated that, “it has long been recognized that local authorities may constitutionally mandate vaccinations. Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905) (affirming guilty judgment in prosecution under state compulsory vaccination law, noting that “[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own … regardless of the injury that may be done to others”).”
The court also cited Prince v. Massachusetts (1944), stating that, “The right to practice religion freely does not include parental liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease.”
The District Court dismissed Schenker’s claims in full, including the “free exercise of religion” claim, and permanent custody was granted to the county. The vaccination issue was not the only reason that permanent custody was granted, but was a contributing factor.
So, let’s make this clear. The United States Constitution does not give anti-vaccination cultists some religious protection to exempt their kids from being vaccinated. Now, the Supreme Court of the United States, which, in case someone has failed their civics class, has the power, through judicial review, to interpret the constitution, and they have, through the two cases mentioned above, given the power to the state to protect the citizens from communicable states which supersedes religious “liberties.” Good for vaccines. Good for children. Good for the community health.
Whenever you hear about the “religious freedom” to not get vaccinated, you can push the Supreme Court right in their face.
Vaccines Save Lives.
Use the Science-based Vaccine Search Engine.
Vaccines are produced by corporations. Profits to stockholders are the "prime directive." If you are pro-vax, and think that vaccines are making the world safer, look at the real statistics, not a medical study done 20 yrs ago in Denmark, where half the people were excluded. Here is a real-world study:
"…..France has had the Measles Mumps Rubella (MMR) vaccine since 1986 with coverage of over 90% for the first does and 40-70% for the second dose. So instead of children being able to get measles, mumps and rubella at a beneficial age >>>> there is now an epidemic of measles sweeping across the country where 8% of cases are under one year old and 34% are over 20 years, when complications are more common. This is compared to 1963 (England & Wales) when less than 4% of cases were under one and 0.4% of cases over 20 years old. <<<<<<
Worse, it seems that no-one knows how to nurse a case of measles any more. In 2010, 30% of cases were hospitalized (38 % under one year, 47% over 20 years). In 1963, 1% of cases in the UK were sent to hospital and 13% of those were for ‘social’ reasons. Even more incredible, of the cases admitted to French hospitals, only 30% had complications! If they don’t have complications (and even if they do) why one earth would anyone in their right mind send someone with measles to hospital?"
This article is fully referenced, and appears here:
http://www.jayne-donegan.co.uk/measles-2013
I think only kids who have a history in their family of allergic reactions to vaccines should have the right of exemption. In my opinion this should be decided by a doctor, not by a judge. http://www.popsnuff.com/let-s-not-vaccinate-our-kids-t248.html
Can anyone show us an issue which provokes so much concern as this one? We all want to protect our Children. I prevented my son having the Hooping Cough Vaccine against medical advise, he got hooping cough and the disease was horrible.
“The right to practice religion freely does not include parental liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease….”.
Claiming exposure to communicable disease requires evidence, such as the child being actually infected or in case of an epidemic. The state has no right to violate patient’s rights on an unfounded assumptions and go practise risky invasive treatments on perfectly healthy children at will.
“The right to practice religion freely does not include parental liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease….”.
Claiming exposure to communicable disease requires evidence, such as the child being actually infected or in case of an epidemic. The state has no right to violate patient's rights on an unfounded assumptions and go practise risky invasive treatments on perfectly healthy children at will.
Yep…vaccines are soOOooOoooOooo safe.
http://medcitynews.com/2012/10/fda-finds-fungus-in-steroid-shots-meningitis-toll-rises/
The judge says: “if it’s not religion then it’s neglect”. There’s no logic. Parents should quit using religion as an argument and go to court instead claiming violation of informed and claiming forced medication of a healthy person is only justifiable in case of a health emergency situation, such as an epidemic, and not discretionary.
The State of Ohio does allow exemptions to vaccinations (ORC Ann. § 3313.67) for “reasons of conscience, including religious convictions.” In other words, a moral objection to vaccines is both reasonable AND upheld by the State’s own laws. This article makes it clear that this was a troubled family, and lack of vaccines seems to be pretty low in the factors of reasoning.
Let’s start with the fact that the parents were potentially violent, failing to provide an otherwise safe home. The mother, even under supervision of Social Services and required to get random drug tests, did not choose to stay drug-free, even at the threat of losing custody of her children.
There are very valid reasons to have a moral objection to some (if not all vaccines), and especially at the rate the APA recommends them. In no way shape or form would I have allowed my children to be vaccinated on their schedule!
Thankfully, as a responsible citizen of the State of Ohio who doesn’t abuse drugs, and hasn’t already given the state reason to protect my children from me, I have the freedom to morally object to vaccines I want and with a doctor who will support my decisions, can do so legally per the statutes set before me by my State.
So the next time you want to assume that the people using “religious freedom” to not get vaccinated are “anti-vaccination cultists”, you might want to consider the other factors behind their decisions, and as the Supreme Court (in their face) is most likely considering, whether or not the parents are truly acting in accordance with the law. And as it appears in this particular story – they were NOT.
SOME vaccines MIGHT save lives. SOME vaccines are more dangerous than the disease they were developed to protect us against. Many doctors will take this exact position.
SOME vaccines are too new to know whether or not they will save lives, or even be worth the risk to take, but the FDA thinks they might be worth trying. If people start dying, they’ll take them off the market.
Because THAT has never happened before, has it?
Vaccines are a drug. Why is it that no one is shocked when FDA approved drugs are recalled (happens often) but then no one believes that a shot can injure. Vaccines can be contaminated with foreign materials. proof…http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/10/05/fda-expands-recall-list-tainted-injectable-medicines-linked-to-meningitis/
Hmm… I wonder how much the judge was paid off…
It’s amazing how people don’t realize “a child for a child” will NEVER be a sound moral or public health policy! Vaccinations injure and kill every day- I would never ask you to harm your child to prevent harm to mine, because that is sociopathic and sick. And also there is no concrete evidence that vaccines save more lives than are taken by adverse events anyway, and herd immunity is not proven to apply to chemically induced temporary immunity in target pediatric populations. Investigate before you vaccinate.
Shame on you for this propaganda piece! Vaccinations can also TAKE lives and several vaccinations contain replicated lines of human aborted fetal tissue and proteins- there is absolutely a valid religious reason to refuse them.
Whether or not a parent chooses vaccinations for their children is a personal decision. Religion and health care should never mix. It never has a good outcome. She doesn’t have a religious reason to exempt her children but I think personal reasons can suffice in absence of emergency medical need.
My biggest argument is this – If vaccinations work, why are they so worried about the people choosing NOT to vaccinate?
Things that are more effective at protecting us from illness and disease? – Breastfeeding, sanitation, access to medical care, hand washing…
The fact that you have to sign exemption forms at all is absurd. I never had to sign a consent form before they vaccinated michael, but now that we don’t…I have to deal with exemptions.
There seems to be more “freedom” for me to abort my child than not giving a vaccination! confused.com!
At the end of the day everyone has a right to choose. Most people agree with anything that comes from and “educated” person or the government etc and defend to the death something that even doctors are not 100% sure of! This is how liberty will be taken – by stirring up opinion using media scare tactics and directing the opinions of “the people”! If I choose not to vaccinate my children – that’s my choice and no-one elses. Let’s not get into strops because we just don’t agree!
Go to your local TOWN MEETING, and demand that freshly vaccinated children be quarantined and comply with laws governing the spread of infectious diseases by keeping them at home for the 21 days that the CDC says they are contagious.
Vaccinated children are spreading communicable diseases, and the CDC has been keeping this quiet for years. The Polio Virus is just one disease that is being kept alive and well in a significant number of vaccinated children and adults. Viruses from the vaccines are being found in these people, not just for the 21 day shedding period, but YEARS later, when they “shed” (transfer) these communicable diseases to an unsuspecting American public.
When the CDC found some UN-vaccinated kids with Polio, they were ready to start advertising campaigns and attacking their parents. The whole affair was quickly and quietly ended when the CDC found that these kids contracted the unique proprietary strain of Polio virus found only in vaccines, and could have only been transferred to these kids from vaccinated children and adults, BUT THESE PEOPLE WERE PASSING ON POLIO INFECTIONS TO OTHER PEOPLE YEARS AFTER THEIR “VACCINATIONS.”
Nobody at the CDC wanted parents to know that vaccinated children and adults can be walking time bombs, and can pass on a Polio virus that is transmissible through their body fluids and poop.
The most dangerous thing on this planet is a freshly vaccinated child that endangers others by potentially spreading a communicable disease at a public mall or movie theater, or by using public transportation (bus, plane, etc.), or goes to a public school, or even poops in a municipal sewer system. This made headlines in Europe. All parents need to get tough and go to Town Meetings and demand that vaccinated children be quarantined in their homes for the 21 days that the CDC says children “shed” after vaccination. The parents of these children should not be allowed to place the body wastes of their vaccinated children in public sewer systems, as it is a violation of state, federal, and municipal law for someone to knowingly “dump” (pun intended) hazardous waste, or spread a communicable disease. Parents and children are also in violation of existing laws when they allow freshly vaccinated in public places, as they can potentially spread communicable infectious diseases.
>>> Demand that vaccinated children in your community be QUARANTINED for 21 days, in accordance with LAWS protecting the public against communicable diseases. <<<
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm54d1014a1.htm
Interesting. Do you have any general statistics about how often this happens? I’m sure it would be helpful to have those if I take this to the village board or the county health department.
The CDC balks at keeping statistics that negatively impact the lucrative vaccine industry. It is necessary to search individual infectious diseases in foreign countries, where science is more open. Here is a typical study on PERTUSSIS IN FULLY VACCINATED CHILDREN that was conducted in another country, but still published by the CDC in the U.S.: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article.htm
How OFTEN this happens? If the virus sheds, then it sheds. To one child, then another, and another…. Varicella the same way. They just happen to CATCH it that time and lab tested the strain…
One more tidbit: In 2011, the U. S. Department Of Justice announced that the Studies that were suppose to prove that “VACCINES DON’T CAUSE AUTISM” and “VACCINES ARE SAFE DURINIG PREGNANCY” were FAKED, and the man behind this fraud embezzled the money from the CDC, and bought a new house and a Harley motorcycle. He is now being sued by the U.S. Government. Unfortunately, his FABRICATED studies are still being used by pro-vax groups and even the vaccine court (VAERS), and would cost the courts Billion$ of dollar$ to correct. Here is a link to that document and prosecution: http://www.justice.gov/usao/gan/press/2011/04-13-11.html
Sorry, but your post above is just dishonest. The article you linked to does not state that the 2 studies were “faked” or “fabricated”. Thorsen was an investigator who faked expenses forms and invoices so he could steal some of the money that was earmarked for research – your article does not state that he “faked” any of the actual research. In scientific studies, the two most important authors are usually the first author and the last author, and Thorsen’s name is 6th and 4th (in the middle). Thorsen’s position in the author lists of these two papers indicated that he clearly was not the primary contributor for these studies. Thorsen was primarily responsible for admin/distributing grant money, and he had no financial incentive to doctor any research results one way or another (he was an opportunist defrauding the money for himself irrespective of what any research showed). Launching an Ad Hominem attack on one dodgy investigator does not discredit the actual scientific studies. Notice that the studies themselves have not been retracted (as Wakefield’s study was). And don’t forget there are many other studies in various countries that have refuted the vaccine-Autism link.
Luci, you’ll note that there’s a tendency to all kinds of logical fallacies from anti-vaxxers. Thorsen is a slime for stealing money, but he was just a name on the article. But given that there is no evidence for most of the anti-vaxxer claims, they go for poisoning the well arguments rather than real science. And as you said, Wakefield was a real fraud, proven over and over again!
Lots of amusing arguments here from the anti-vaxxer side. Thanks for knocking down one of them.
Will Ohio now pursue non-vaccinators for neglect?
Oh yes, sheeple! We should all do it just because the government says we have to! They show us proof don’t they? Of course they do – they show us whatever the hell they want. Start thinking for yourself. We don’t have immunities to virus/bacteria because we sanitize everything and take vaccines for everything – many senior citizens have immunity to swine flu. Think about why. Do more than read an article or two by some published by some biased newspaper/magazine.
Michael, you are an irresponsible. Before you begin spouting out your opinion without doing your research, please stop and educate yourself. If you choose to put yourself in the public eye, you have a responsibility to research your topic. IF you had taken the time to research your topic you might have discovered the amount of toxic substances that go into vaccinations, the level of toxins that are found in a mother’s placenta from the toxic environment we live in today in today (those toxins get based onto they baby), the ridiculous vaccine schedule that subjects babies to far more vaccines than 20 years ago, the unnecessary vaccines that are in that schedule (i.e. Hepatitis C when the mother is clear).
You want the science behind it. You will never get it. As you know the FDA, instead of doing their own independent research, relies on the pharmaceutical companies to supply research on a particular drug or vaccine. You will never see a research study come from a pharmaceutical company about the safety of these multi-dose vaccine visits to their pediatrician. There is no study and never will be. They would never be able to publish the results. What are you left with in that instance? As a practitioner, empirical data. You may say that is a load of crap, has no science behind it and is just coincidental, but I have seen enough mothers come into my office and tell me their child was happy and normal one day and non-responsive the next after their vaccines. You cannot ignore it. Look at the symptoms of autism and the symptoms of mercury poisoning and tell me they are not the same. If you had done your research you would know that Thimerosal was (and is still in Flu vaccines) in childhood vaccines.
I am not saying don’t vaccinate. What I am saying is really know both sides of the coin. Know the risks on both sides. We are not on the same playing field we were 20 years ago, and we shouldn’t act like it. There are many more risks now. AND, people have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE what to put in their bodies. And it is the parent’s responsibility to do what they feel is right to keep their child happy and healthy. It should not be forced by government, whose legislators are influenced by the big pharma lobby in Washington. Do not think for one minute this issue is not influenced by the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR. If you don’t you are naive.
As an *empiric* chiropractor how do explain your website touting treatment for *subluxations* when the UK General Chiropractic Council says….
“The chiropractic vertebral subluxation complex is an historical concept but it remains a theoretical model. It is not supported by any clinical research evidence that would allow claims to be made that it is the cause of disease or health concerns.”
And…..
“No supportive evidence is found for the chiropractic subluxation being associated with any disease process or of creating suboptimal health conditions requiring intervention. Regardless of popular appeal this leaves the subluxation construct in the realm of unsupported speculation. This lack of supportive evidence suggests the subluxation construct has no valid clinical applicability.”
And you want people to take you seriously?
I deleted all of my posts here bc it is a waste of my time to be on this discussion. thankfully, our legal system is much better than this and individual court cases can always be overturned. What scares me more than those who won’t respect my freedom to refuse unwanted medical care as well as my privacy is that what other rights do people on this site believe it is OKAY to take away from its citizens?
You are not free to infect others with disease for which there is a vaccine. No one should respect a parent that tries to prevent their children from being vaccinated. Anyone who fails to do so deserves to lose their kids (and be jailed for years).
what about the kids that alergic to vaccines? what do u want us to do? Go please vaccinate my child so he/she can go into a alergic reaction and die? wth… yah some vaccines are good but there are those I can not give to my own kids cause they have bad reactions… but no, were going to call protecting the kids from those shots neglect. some people need brains..
Very rare event. No one is going to force someone to vaccinate if there is a legitimate and provable medical issue. No one who advocates vaccines has ever stated that. Don’t create a strawman argument with histrionics. It’s embarrassing.
My problem with the parent’s argument ( and a lot of people are using this argument) is that vaccination goes against their “religious beliefs”. Religion has nothing to do with your choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate, unless you’re Amish. They should just say, “I’m not comfortable giving my child these vaccines”. I do not believe that they will ever force a parent to give their child a vaccine if that child has had reactions to vaccines before.
i don’t like the parents argument of religious beliefs either. But, my son has very bad reactions to the flu shot as does my daughter and my mother. My mother turns blue and quits breathing. I get so sick i end up in the hospital. So, its something i fear, cause so many places demand flu shots and the kids reactions and mine.
I wonder if there is anything you can get, like a medical alert bracelet for them and yourself.
Yea what the guy said about medical issues they are not going to take your kid away if there is a medical problem and that child is allergic to the medicine in the vaccination i would worry about it they are only talking about people that refuse the shots cause of a religion belief witch the lady is an idiot.. it has nothing to do about believe its about having your child take the vaccination so they dont get badly sick and die!!!
could you please explain “Religion has nothing to do with your choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate, unless you’re Amish” Are you saying Amish is the only religion you recognize as deeply held beliefs?
Michael Simpson It’s not a very rare event. Proof?
This is not alternative health conspiratorial conjecture. This has been officially recorded but barely reported. So here is a sampling of recorded disease breakouts among children who were vaccinated for that disease.
Enforcing or increasing vaccine schedules does not really prevent disease; it only increases the chances of worse health or gravely critical adverse reactions, ranging from autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) to decreased immunity and increased poor health.
Some Known Outbreaks of Vaccinated Kids.
The most recent outbreak occurred in California. The disease was whooping cough, or pertussis. The vaccination that has become a regularly scheduled pediatric ritual is a combination of three vaccines known as DTaP or DTP, which stands for Diptheria – Tetenus – acellular Pertussis.
This three-in-one vaccine cocktail is supposed to prevent diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis, or whooping cough. The pediatric vaccination schedule calls for administering this cocktail at two, four, six, and 15-18 months of age. Four vaccinations of three vaccines each administered to children before one and one-half years of age.
Dr. David Witt initiated a study after an unusually large number of whooping cough cases were admitted to Kaiser Permanente Hospital in San Rafael, California during 2010.
After examining the records of those stricken with pertussis over an eight month period, Dr. Witt and his team were surprised to learn that the vast majority, 81 percent, of the whooping cough kids had received their full four shot battery of DTaPs or pertussis vaccines alone.
Eleven percent of the pertussis victims received some less than four pertusssis vaccinations, while the remaining eight percent were never vaccinated for whooping cough at all.
Please pause and reflect. There’s something obviously wrong with this. Other recent pertussis outbreaks were blindly blamed on unvaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated children, without any investigation.
That, even if true, which Dr. Witt’s survey indicates is not, is something to think about. Vaccinations are supposed to confer immunity, right? This study implies that vaccinated children are infecting the unvaccinated.
The New York Times also reported on this overall trend with their headline “Vaccination Is Steady but Pertussis Is Surging.”.
It wasn’t long ago that the New York and New Jersey area had a mumps outbreak. Eighty percent of those kids had been fully vaccinated with the MMR series (measles, mumps, rubella). (Natural News, source below).
In Canada, four studies conducted in 2009 suggested a link with the seasonal flu vaccines’ increasing swine flu or H1H1 infection by up to 250 percent. (Science Daily, source below).
Hiding the Vaccine Dirt Under the Media Rug.
Realize that vaccines are inexpensive to produce and do not undergo long term testing. They are being promoted and enforced by state legislators and school districts at the behest of pharmaceutical lobbies. Sometimes money changes hands from Big Pharma to politicians.
But much social enforcement occurs by guilt from the media and medical profession. The mantra of avoiding vaccinations furthers epidemics because “herd immunity” is only granted by vaccinating at least 90 percent of a population — is nonsense.
Meanwhile, the vaccine manufacturers are protected from liability by the government’s federal National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) established after a rash of lawsuits from extreme neurological side effects caused by 1980s swine flu vaccines.
This “Vaccine Court” compensates the vaccine injured directly with federal funds and small taxes collected from vaccine manufacturers. It also hides actual cases by not releasing press releases to the lamestream media.
VAERS (vaccine adverse effect reporting system) is another bad joke. It’s estimated that less than five percent of vaccine adverse events get reported, and very few of those hit the MSM. This one did once, years ago – CBS 60 Minutes Documentary.
Yep! I saw that. Thank You.
You just proved the vaccine works but it simply needs a booster shot around 12 years of age. I think that is called an own goal
Drug addled conspiracy nut. You have not got the brain cells left to put together a valid response to the science put right in front of you. Lets take an example. You claim autism is caused by vaccines. Cite one peer reviewed study published in a high impact journal that supports your claim.
Sorry, but this is total bs. I’m 31, healthy, and never been vaccinated in my life. (I’ve barely even caught a cold my entire life cuz my body built its own defense system against that, never had to take medicine either, not even aspirin). You guys can argue till you’re ill, but I’m living proof. There is NO REASON that choice should be taken away. Weather the side effects fit your agenda or not, there ARE side effects to vaccinations (like all drugs) and should be decided by the parents, not the government, period.
So presumably, you’ll shortly be posting your full medical records somewhere online, so that we can all verify your claim.
I was born at home and have a late registered birth certificate too. I presume you wouldn’t believe I even exist anyway, lol.
Yes, we’re awaiting your full medical records, which we would like verified by a real physician not by a naturopath or some bogosity like that.
RJ O’Guillory Wow, The Pharma Shill Gambit with penis joke. The sure sign of a desperate man. What don’t you just admit you know nothing about science or medicine?
Only as a child, and I beat the crap out of them. My father was an army champion boxer and taught me how to fight. They were nothing but a bunch of impotent blowhard pussies just like you. Now that I am an adult, I rarely run into someone as ignorant, drug addled and immature as you.
Derek Atkinson Sure, I believer YOU exist. But at your age, you surely know by now that you shouldn’t make any claims without being prepared to back them up?
Especially on a site that’s literally named “skeptical” lol! If you reread my comment you’ll see that I’ve said nothing of doing away with vaccinations nor have I advised any against getting them for themselves or their families. I’m debating weather or not parents should have the freedom to choose (and last time I checked I didn’t need a doctors note to debate personal freedoms). But at your age, you surely know by now that it’s the physician’s job to recommend available treatments, while it’s your job to decide how you want to treat.
Derek, how’s your reading comprehension? I was talking about your claims to never having had any illnesses whatsoever; I think you mother may say different.
Funny you question my comprehension and immediately follow it by misquoting me, lol!! At what school do they teach that “never” is synonymous with “barely.” I don’t think you’re a poor reader though, necessarily, you just like to read things that haven’t been written. But anyways I’m extremely bored with this and you now and no, I’ve never sought medical treatment for any illness (and yes, my mother would attest to that, even tho there’s no record for not going, lol). I was, however, treated for a broken arm in 7th grade and for a car accident in 08. I must now bid you farewell, good day to you madam.
I will give Derek that he is never sick and never had any sort of vaccination. May not be skeptical of me but the health of one individual is not the point.
Vaccines do not protect one individual. They protect entire populations of people. If you had entire cities with people like Derek you would find that many people are healthy and fine. And that many other people have diseases which have long been removed from society via vaccines. You can examine other places on earth where vaccines are not as widespread as they are here and you will find many healthy people… and many people who die of trivial diseases.
So the health of one individual who goes without vaccines is completely irrelevant.
Oh golly gee whiz…kids and others who have posted from their hearts here…I guess I’m an old schooler at heart and a nurse on top of it as well…I have never in all my nursing career as well as personal experience have NEVER heard of anyone have an adverse reaction to any of the childhood immunizations…hey I’m not saying they don’t exist…but to refuse to allow your child NOT to receive immunity for themselves is an act of ignorance…and I’m sure your child will thank you later on when they wind up with something that could have been prevented from their loving parent…at an early age! kids…(parents) get all the facts FIRST before making your decisions…don’t let the media make that decision for you!
So we can’t refuse vaccinations due to religion, but we CAN mutilate an infant’s genitals “for religious reasons”? I delayed and separated my son’s vaccines, and will do so for any child of mine in the future.
Just to add – I know you’ve stated that you have never heard of anyone having an adverse reaction to a childhood immunization, however, the CDC and the FDA have. That’s why they have set up the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and there is also the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP).
VAERS is not proof of causality between vaccines and the adverse event. That is a myth. It’s amateur science of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Jennifer, you faith in VAERS is somewhat misplace. Anybody can report anything to VAERS; although some claims are investigated, there are no preliminary checks whatsoever. The result is that ANY death after a vaccination, even those from accidents or from totally unrelated causes, can and have been reported to VAERS as vaccination-caused.See http://thepoxesblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/vaers-as-evidence-of-vaccine-harm.html
Thank you Geri. I’ve bookmarked that for future reference. VAERS has become the garbage dump of every complaint about vaccines. Real FDA adverse events are made by physicians with all of the medical information, including, if possible, detailed detailed medical case reports. If it is serious, sometimes a medical or regulatory official from the company will follow up with a call or in-person visit to review all of the data, with the final report submitted to the FDA for review. If it’s serious, the FDA will do the same. If the FDA sees a trend, then the FDA will pursue regulatory action up to and including recall.
Just to preclude the usual “the FDA is in bed with Big Pharma” ad hominem, hiding this information is a felony. Yes, the FDA has dealt with it. I remember watching FBI agents arrest top executives of many companies who tried to hide adverse reports. And too many regular people in Big Pharma are way too ethical to ever want to break laws. They just report this stuff to the FDA without interference from anyone anyways. It’s just silly to think that some VP way up the ladder gets involved with day to day activities.
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html – you will notice this was established by the US Govt.
NVIC’s co-founders worked with Congress on the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34). This historic law acknowledged that vaccine injuries and deaths are real and that the vaccine injured and their families should be financially supported and that vaccine safety protections were needed in the mass vaccination system.
Michael Simpson – either you WORK for big PHARMA or you have no life.
Yet cutting up their genitals is?
..what a vaccine shill this person is….if they mandated it to a child of mine, and they forced me to vaccinate..and the vaccination led to autism or or the death of my child….since we are talking hypotheticals here…I would hunt down every child of every person involved in the…. case, lawyers, judges, government pigs who stuck their nose in my business..and I’d burn them and their children alive…one at a time…but first I’d do their kids so that they could watch their children die horrible deaths…….Regards,…RJ.
Well don’t you sound like a bowl full of sugar in a flower field on a warm sunny day.
Watch out guys. We got a badass over here.
Yup, he’s a real keyboard warrior, all right!
No you wouldn’t, RJ. But the fact that you fantasize about it is sick.
Thomas Price is right, we have a badass here. Well more like a delusional individual with a highly troubled past. As for your baseless attacks, I’ve been in several states on my own, and have no trouble with dissent, whether on the streets in front of police with riot gear, or writing letters and making phone calls to those in power. Now if you’re ready to take my order, I’ll have 2 double cheeseburgers with extra mustard and no onions.
RJ…seriously, you are delusional. I would suggest you get back on your Big Pharma medications. Your manic episodes are kind of scary.
Michael Simpson Sounds like a Howard Hughes in the making
We are not making fun of people who need medication. We are making fun of arrogant delusional mentally ill blowhards who like threaten other peoples children.
…nice try dipship…go back to you junior college and try to make something of yourself….bray, bray, bray, bray…just like a jack-ass
Too bad you have become just like and no better than your parents. Psychopath.
I’m delighted! This should cut back on my exposure to illness from non-vaccinated kids, and *I* have two autoimmune disorders. I’ve gotten my flu shot every year for 12 years now, and stay current on all my vaccines as well. Oh yeah…and my autoimmune disorders are most likely shitty genetics.
Two of my children triggered Autism after the 3 year old set of MMR vaccines. I was threatened by the doctors if I didn’t give them the shots they would be taken. I believe most vaccines are ok but the MMR shot is just not good. I have done my research, It should be done away with. The rest of the vaccines are fine I even agree with smallpox vaccine which no one gives anymore unless you are going overseas. I will rally against the MMR until they stop giving it to chldren. There are thousands of kids who have had autism trigger after that shot.
It appears that certain babies are born with a genetic vulnerability to autism that is then triggered by something in the external environment, either while he or she is still in the womb or sometime after birth.
It’s important to note that the environment, in this context, means anything outside the body. It’s not limited to things like pollution or toxins in the atmosphere. In fact, one of the most important environments appears to be the prenatal environment.
Prenatal factors that may contribute to autism
Taking antidepressants during pregnancy, especially in the first 3 months
Nutritional deficiencies early in pregnancy, particularly not getting enough folic acid
The age of the mother (children born to older fathers also have a higher risk of autism)
Complications at or shortly after birth, including very low birth weight and neonatal anemia
Maternal infections during pregnancy
Exposure to chemical pollutants, such as metals and pesticides, while pregnant. Thimerisol (mercury) is no longer in MMR vaccines, however it is still in contact lens solution-wear contact lenses while pregnant you get the exposure of what was used in the vaccines 20 years ago, daily.
My son was showing signs at 6 months-BEFORE he had any vaccines, should I now blame the vaccines? Especially as I was the only one who noticed, because I was with him every single day 24 hours a day, and some of those signs are easy to miss. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/autism_signs_symptoms.htm
Karma was completely fine , speaking in phrases at age 2. Very bright still is Thank God. I never took anything I was not supposed to take during pregnancy with any of my 5 children so that was not a factor. I always take vitamins ect. I was below the age threshold for advanced maternal age. She was completely healthy , born at home with a midwife, no complications, almost 10 pound baby, I had no gestational diabetes She was just a big baby. No anemia. AFTER her MMR shot at age two she completely quit speaking for 6 months, I had to teach her how to speak all over again . She is now 12 years old. And on a regimin of amino acid ALA, vitamin c and flax seed. She has shown marked improvement, even though she is high functioning she still had severe perseveration and echolalia. IN the 3 months of the ala) Thioctic acid, it is an amino acid that Au patients do not make on their own) regimen her perseveration has dropped significantly as well as her echolalia, She is having more eye contact as well. I do not have to remind her to look at my eyes and tap my nose when I speak to her. I have worked tirelessly with my kiddos My son also triggered at age 2 his symptoms were slightly different however, 1 in 9 children with AU are girls. So it presented differently. He is also high functioning but is ore aggressive verbally than she is. He is now 10 year old. my 24 year old was fine,my 22 year old is fine, my 2 year old has not shown any signs as of yet, I watch her like a hawk. I work with them and homeschool them as regular schooling isnt for them. I was lucky to fins a lovely k12 charter that works online and has such a lovely special needs teacher who video conferences with my son twice a week. I am so grateful to her pediatrician who listened to my concerns and immediately sent her to Shands child psychiatric unti to be tested there in Gainesville Fla. Top notch doctor really worked with us and taught us so many valuable skills to deal with outbursts. CARD is fantastic organization for resources and outreach. Believe me I have gone over everything imaginable to pin point triggers. It always comes back to the mmr shot with those two. There is no history of Au in my family. Or in his. I would not change who they are for the world but it is definitely a deep challenge , especially when they have ” Broken” days.
I’m the first on the spectrum in my family, healthy parents, my son was speaking by 6 months, and stopped at 9 months, when he turned two it was like flicking a switch-profound autism, he hadn’t recieved the MMR when he was diagnosed. All children are different,and the early signs can be subtle, my own autism let me see the signs in my son that no one else did, everyone called me crazy, sadly his diagnosis was a kind of vindication(though I didn’t want to be right), and my family and his doctors realized I wasn’t making things up. Something wasn’t right, I knew it and no one would listen. My son lives with his father as my autism was used as a reason against me. Keep fighting.
*Hugs* I know this is such a hard thing for you to bear. Keep fighting on your end as well. There are many natural treatments that can help abate some of the smaller symptoms and change quality of life. Since I have begun the ALA Alpha Lipoc Acid with the children they are more manageable in public . The major issues, like sensory, I have noticed only slight improvement , Karma no longer flushes the toilet with her elbow and she has actually used a toilet other than the one in the house! She is improving at a much faster rate than my son but he is showing improvements as well. The ALA cost 5 dollars a bottle for 200 mg 1 time a day in the am. Bobbi there is hope for all people with AU. I tell everyone I know about the change I am also currently studying MMS is a complete spectrum mutli vitamin supplement that i have heard AAMAZING things about. One of my friends has a son who never spoke a word , head banging. Since her use of the ALA and MMS combined her son though non verbal is able to use a ipad to communicate with her! Their quality of life has improved and now she has communication with her child that she didnt have before. I hope I was able to give you a bit of Hope.
I don’t have custody, he lives with his dad and grandmother, who is a special education teacher(so best possible scenerio), he’s in speech therapy, behavioral therapy, actually goes to a private school for autistic children(which I could never afford), is on a modified gluten-free diet, and is apparently doing quite well with horse therapy, as he bonds better with animals. He doesn’t talk, except to animals(hence the horse therapy, he can talk just fine, just chooses not to), but does quite well with ASL for communication, it’s suspected that like myself he has hyperacusis, which is NOT fun.
Nods, Horse therapy has done wonders with children. It is also in my personal opinion,that people with Au, Are so brilliant, that portions of the brain that ” Normal” people do not use , they have access to. It’s like thinking three dimensional . Example* Telepathy,or “seeing” math equations and answers without using pencil and paper or calculator,or mapping roads, Photodentic memory,All these things combined in one little person is overwhelming to other functions of the body. For example my son will say to me, Get ready my father is calling soon. Within 10 minutes, the phone rings and its him, I ask him how he does that, He said, He “saw” his dad ( who lives in Texas) Thinking about calling them. Theres just so much of the brain we dont know. And I’m so glad your sons father and his mother are being good to him. Loving support from all angles is always a good thing. it was hard for my ex to accept the fact the children were AU , even after diagnosis.
Ruth Anna Brown MMS…are you talking about Miracle Mineral Supplement, bleach?
Bobbi Sommer-Welch Take what Ruth is saying with a grain of salt. The *MMS* she is touting is just a bleach solution. It has never been shown to have any effect at all, and is dangerous to take. It is one of the worst quack remedies out there.
I never said to take MMS I said I was researching it. And no the one IM talking about is not bleach actually it is a vitamin suppliment. Besides , If I found out it were bleach I would never give it to my child, number 2 the ALA I am using , Is working currently so Im happy with the results. Research is NEVER a wrong thing to do and wow, Bleach, thats the first time I have heard that. Im gonna go find the links I have been researching and link
brainchilwww.dnutritionals.com/store.php?cPath=2 yjod This is one set of multivitamins fish oil for Omega 3 fatty acids and the like THESE are not bleach.
Vaccines are not 100% safe period. If they were there would be no need for the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html – you will notice this was established by the US Govt.
NVIC’s co-founders worked with Congress on the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34). This historic law acknowledged that vaccine injuries and deaths are real and that the vaccine injured and their families should be financially supported and that vaccine safety protections were needed in the mass vaccination system.
The MMR is banned in Japan and has been for close to a decade for injuring and killing children: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html.
and then there is the Hannah Poling case where they proved that her vaccines caused brain damage with features of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0%2C8599%2C1721109%2C00.html
or the FDA’s recall on Rotarix for containing a pig virus:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-03-22-fda-rotarix_N.htm
Parents should be able to decide which vaccines they want to give their child or not.
Really, you’re going to bring that old stuff to me, who’s an expert on vaccines. I ought to just delete your post for wasting bandwidth. Not one thing you wrote provides proof of anything but random…I don’t know…words. For example, MMR isn’t available in Japan because….they give the vaccines separately. Of course, the autism rate in Japan….keeps going up. So, you lose. Really, you need to do better with your non-science crap.
Michael Simpson – If you are such an “expert” then you would know about the NCVIA and you wouldn’t be saying that “Vaccines are perfectly safe” when they do cause injury. Prove to me that they don’t Mr. Science – you can’t. You can only show that statistically the number of deaths and injuries is small in terms of the over all population, and I highly doubt all cases of injury and adverse reaction are reported. Most don’t even know about the NCVIA.
And you should learn to read, as I mentioned nothing about autism in regard to the MMR. In Japan the MMR caused a record number of cases of non-viral meningitis. The British Department of Health said Japan had used a type of MMR which included a strain of mumps vaccine that had particular problems and was discontinued in the UK because of safety concerns. (There is your science)
You seem to be really full of yourself, and I am sure you’re on the “bleeding edge” of science living out in Bakersfield the armpit of California out where there are more cows than people…yep.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Armpit%20of%20California
Gee William, that’s a nice attempt to suggest that Japan doesn’t vaccinate against measles, mumps or rubella.
In fact, they do vaccinate against all three.
http://idsc.nih.go.jp/vaccine/dschedule/Imm11EN.pdf
The mumps portion is optional. The Measles/Rubella portion is mandatory.
Related to the mumps portion of the vaccine being optional:
http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/countryprofileresult.cfm?C=jpn
They have a significantly higher amount of mumps cases in Japan – you think that’s not unrelated to the vaccine being optional?
Linda Tock – I said nothing about Japan not vaccinating against measles, mumps or rubella. I said JAPAN BANNED THE MMR.
There is a big difference between giving individual shots spaced apart and STACKING them all in one dose. I said the MMR was banned because it was found to be dangerous. I didn’t say that individual shots for measles, mumps or rubella weren’t available.
You should also learn how to read as well, and not put words in in other peoples mouths that were not there. Putting words in someone else’s mouth is simply rude. Would you talk to your mother like that?
Except that the Japanese schedule doesn’t have 3 individual shots. It has a combined MR (Measles/Rubella). Furthermore, the first offering of the single mumps vaccine coincides with the obligatory MR vaccination.
So for those parents who opt to vaccinate against mumps, it’s still given on the same day as the MR.
So much for your claim of individual shots spaced apart.
With regards to your last statement, I now have to replace my irony meter.
Hilarious. Do you not ride cars because they’re not 100% safe either? You have a higher chance of getting into a car accident on your way to and from work on any given day than getting a vaccine injury from all vaccines.
Michael Simpson – Rate of autism isn’t “going up”, it’s that it is being detected more because they know more about how to diagnose autism.
Now all we need is a vaccine to protect our children from religion.
nope a protection from parents who thinkj they know whats right!
Oh there is! Just have a Bible Study. Read and study the ENTIRE book, front to back. Be sure to emphasize how Yahweh is racist, arrogant, jealous, and spiteful. Consider the laws of Leviticus, the story of Saul and the Amelakites, and the preaching of Paul to the Romans as sources for a good, thurough vaccination against Christian Radicalism.
Wow this blog has some enlightened followers. Im glad there is somewhere on the internet where people still have some damb sense. I agree with your exagesis of the bible Thomas. Its too bad it says be fruiteful and multiply in that book. A darned shame.
Well there are seven billion of us, JV. And only about 2 billion are Christians. So the ones who are multiplying the most are not godly.
@Bobbie Danino, so you are OK with government deciding what is “best” for you? This becomes a very, very slippery slope.
And the ties to Celiacs from vaccines has been completely debunked. There is no evidence in research to validate, on the contrary, it negates the claim
same with autism
I think this is crazyness, homeschool your kids if you don’t want to vaccinate. I am an adult and choose not to have vaccinations, I get sick everytime, but my parents did what was right growing up and I thank them for doing what was right until I was old enough to decide for myself
There ARE valid reasons to refuse vaccination, and I will be refusing them for my own children until they are at least 3 and a valid test of their developing immune systems can be run (we don’t have all of our immunoglobulin types and are missing various immune components until at least 3 years of age). I have a heritable Primary Immune Disorder, and didn’t find out about it until I was 35, since the doctors never tested me for it. Unfortunately, due to this, I now have 3 Autoimmune Disorders, all of which have been documented as triggered by vaccination. Despite the extensive documentation, NONE of my doctors will give me a medical exemption from vaccines for myself or my children, so, despite being an Atheist, the ONLY thing I can do is claim a religious exemption. Removing it from vaccines is unnecessary and potentially DANGEROUS for me and my family.
You know my opinion on vaccinations,but your reasoning is valid and your concerns should be taken into consideration. Religious exemptions are ridiculous. But valid medical concerns are serious.
But what about when the very doctors who are the ONLY people who can register a medical exemption refuse to do so? My life is in danger from vaccines, and so to are the lives of any children I may have. I already have had my Celiac Disease triggered (at 2), had measles right after I got my MMR, had chickenpox 3 times (no chickenpox vaccine when I was a child, I simply caught it three times, I don’t develop immunity regardless of vaccinated or unvaccinated state), PANDAS (as an ADULT), Autoimmune Arthritis, and now my thyroid is dying. My mother got Guillain Barre Syndrome from a flu vaccine while she was pregnant with me and fortunately recovered – but GBS can be fatal or lead to permanent paralysis.
There is only one valid reason to refuse vaccinations and that is a contraindication which are extremely rare. Your “developing immune system” comment is not based on anything scientific or medical. In fact, the infant is being challenged with thousands, if not millions of antigens within the first few months of its life. As if a few viruses and bacteria from vaccines are going to make ANY issue with a child’s immune system given the number of antigens faced in food, air, water, etc.
Autoimmune disorders have nothing to do with vaccines. Period. Quit inventing science, you’re doing a disservice to your children.
Tara, you’re starting to go all over the place. Measles after MMR? PANDAS? GBS?
PANDAS = Pediatric Autoimmune Neurological Disorder Associated with Streptococcus. GBS = Guillain Barre Syndrome, which I have a greatly increased chance of getting, since my mother had it.
And if you look up the immunoglobulins, they are NOT all present in the immune system of the developing infant until 3 years or more. This is known, accepted SCIENCE. And that’s precisely where I am deficient.
I have the ABSOLUTE form of IgA Deficiency. There is no detectable IgA in my blood, my bowel movements, or any of the other places it should be found. A blood transfusion containing IgA could kill me too, not just a disease.
And several of the various versions of the flu vaccine has been pulled from the market several times for the increased risk of GBS, an AUTOIMMUNE DISORDER.
Russ I still believe religious exemption is valid for people who believe it… it’s our right to refuse vacations no matter what our reason is.
If you had the measles ‘right after the MMR’ – that means you were exposed to the measles (ie: the wild virus). It takes around 2-3 weeks for the vaccine to ‘kick in’ and trigger your immune system.
I smell a heaping pile. Celiac triggered by a vaccine? That is one HELL of a leap, since Celiac is caused by two separate faulty genes. Vaccines do not rewrite your DNA. If you doctors don’t want to give you an exemption, it is probably because you don’t need one. My guess is that you are also a hypochondriac.
Susan…Well, not according to the Supreme Court it’s not. You don’t have a right to harm your children or others. Vaccines save lives. Your unscientific beliefs don’t.
Susan – yeah, go ahead and put every child in your local community at risk because you want to be a religious bigot – seems legit
Great blog! I shared it over at IR!
Thanks. But what is IR?
Infrared? (Sorry, don’t mind me)
LOL. Sounds plausible.
Respectful Insolence. Science blog by Orac ;D
Oh, one of my favorites.
Yep…vaccines are soOOooOoooOooo safe.
http://medcitynews.com/2012/10/fda-finds-fungus-in-steroid-shots-meningitis-toll-rises/
The judge says: "if it's not religion then it's neglect". There's no logic. Parents should quit using religion as an argument and go to court instead claiming violation of informed and claiming forced medication of a healthy person is only justifiable in case of a health emergency situation, such as an epidemic, and not discretionary.
[...] another decision where the court ruled that the state has right to reject religious exemptions to protect children, someone tried to use a religious belief in a cynical attempt to prevent her children from being [...]
The State of Ohio does allow exemptions to vaccinations (ORC Ann. § 3313.67) for "reasons of conscience, including religious convictions." In other words, a moral objection to vaccines is both reasonable AND upheld by the State's own laws. This article makes it clear that this was a troubled family, and lack of vaccines seems to be pretty low in the factors of reasoning.
Let's start with the fact that the parents were potentially violent, failing to provide an otherwise safe home. The mother, even under supervision of Social Services and required to get random drug tests, did not choose to stay drug-free, even at the threat of losing custody of her children.
There are very valid reasons to have a moral objection to some (if not all vaccines), and especially at the rate the APA recommends them. In no way shape or form would I have allowed my children to be vaccinated on their schedule!
Thankfully, as a responsible citizen of the State of Ohio who doesn't abuse drugs, and hasn't already given the state reason to protect my children from me, I have the freedom to morally object to vaccines I want and with a doctor who will support my decisions, can do so legally per the statutes set before me by my State.
So the next time you want to assume that the people using “religious freedom” to not get vaccinated are "anti-vaccination cultists", you might want to consider the other factors behind their decisions, and as the Supreme Court (in their face) is most likely considering, whether or not the parents are truly acting in accordance with the law. And as it appears in this particular story – they were NOT.
SOME vaccines MIGHT save lives. SOME vaccines are more dangerous than the disease they were developed to protect us against. Many doctors will take this exact position.
SOME vaccines are too new to know whether or not they will save lives, or even be worth the risk to take, but the FDA thinks they might be worth trying. If people start dying, they'll take them off the market.
Because THAT has never happened before, has it?
Vaccines are a drug. Why is it that no one is shocked when FDA approved drugs are recalled (happens often) but then no one believes that a shot can injure. Vaccines can be contaminated with foreign materials. proof…http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/10/05/fda-expands-recall-list-tainted-injectable-medicines-linked-to-meningitis/
Hmm… I wonder how much the judge was paid off…
It's amazing how people don't realize "a child for a child" will NEVER be a sound moral or public health policy! Vaccinations injure and kill every day- I would never ask you to harm your child to prevent harm to mine, because that is sociopathic and sick. And also there is no concrete evidence that vaccines save more lives than are taken by adverse events anyway, and herd immunity is not proven to apply to chemically induced temporary immunity in target pediatric populations. Investigate before you vaccinate.
Shame on you for this propaganda piece! Vaccinations can also TAKE lives and several vaccinations contain replicated lines of human aborted fetal tissue and proteins- there is absolutely a valid religious reason to refuse them.
Whether or not a parent chooses vaccinations for their children is a personal decision. Religion and health care should never mix. It never has a good outcome. She doesn't have a religious reason to exempt her children but I think personal reasons can suffice in absence of emergency medical need.
My biggest argument is this – If vaccinations work, why are they so worried about the people choosing NOT to vaccinate?
Things that are more effective at protecting us from illness and disease? – Breastfeeding, sanitation, access to medical care, hand washing…
The fact that you have to sign exemption forms at all is absurd. I never had to sign a consent form before they vaccinated michael, but now that we don't…I have to deal with exemptions.
There seems to be more "freedom" for me to abort my child than not giving a vaccination! confused.com!
At the end of the day everyone has a right to choose. Most people agree with anything that comes from and "educated" person or the government etc and defend to the death something that even doctors are not 100% sure of! This is how liberty will be taken – by stirring up opinion using media scare tactics and directing the opinions of "the people"! If I choose not to vaccinate my children – that's my choice and no-one elses. Let's not get into strops because we just don't agree!
Go to your local TOWN MEETING, and demand that freshly vaccinated children be quarantined and comply with laws governing the spread of infectious diseases by keeping them at home for the 21 days that the CDC says they are contagious.
Vaccinated children are spreading communicable diseases, and the CDC has been keeping this quiet for years. The Polio Virus is just one disease that is being kept alive and well in a significant number of vaccinated children and adults. Viruses from the vaccines are being found in these people, not just for the 21 day shedding period, but YEARS later, when they "shed" (transfer) these communicable diseases to an unsuspecting American public.
When the CDC found some UN-vaccinated kids with Polio, they were ready to start advertising campaigns and attacking their parents. The whole affair was quickly and quietly ended when the CDC found that these kids contracted the unique proprietary strain of Polio virus found only in vaccines, and could have only been transferred to these kids from vaccinated children and adults, BUT THESE PEOPLE WERE PASSING ON POLIO INFECTIONS TO OTHER PEOPLE YEARS AFTER THEIR "VACCINATIONS."
Nobody at the CDC wanted parents to know that vaccinated children and adults can be walking time bombs, and can pass on a Polio virus that is transmissible through their body fluids and poop.
The most dangerous thing on this planet is a freshly vaccinated child that endangers others by potentially spreading a communicable disease at a public mall or movie theater, or by using public transportation (bus, plane, etc.), or goes to a public school, or even poops in a municipal sewer system. This made headlines in Europe. All parents need to get tough and go to Town Meetings and demand that vaccinated children be quarantined in their homes for the 21 days that the CDC says children "shed" after vaccination. The parents of these children should not be allowed to place the body wastes of their vaccinated children in public sewer systems, as it is a violation of state, federal, and municipal law for someone to knowingly "dump" (pun intended) hazardous waste, or spread a communicable disease. Parents and children are also in violation of existing laws when they allow freshly vaccinated in public places, as they can potentially spread communicable infectious diseases.
>>> Demand that vaccinated children in your community be QUARANTINED for 21 days, in accordance with LAWS protecting the public against communicable diseases. <<<
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm54d1014a1.htm
Reposting!!!!
Interesting. Do you have any general statistics about how often this happens? I'm sure it would be helpful to have those if I take this to the village board or the county health department.
The CDC balks at keeping statistics that negatively impact the lucrative vaccine industry. It is necessary to search individual infectious diseases in foreign countries, where science is more open. Here is a typical study on PERTUSSIS IN FULLY VACCINATED CHILDREN that was conducted in another country, but still published by the CDC in the U.S.: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article.htm
How OFTEN this happens? If the virus sheds, then it sheds. To one child, then another, and another…. Varicella the same way. They just happen to CATCH it that time and lab tested the strain…
One more tidbit: In 2011, the U. S. Department Of Justice announced that the Studies that were suppose to prove that “VACCINES DON’T CAUSE AUTISM” and “VACCINES ARE SAFE DURINIG PREGNANCY” were FAKED, and the man behind this fraud embezzled the money from the CDC, and bought a new house and a Harley motorcycle. He is now being sued by the U.S. Government. Unfortunately, his FABRICATED studies are still being used by pro-vax groups and even the vaccine court (VAERS), and would cost the courts Billion$ of dollar$ to correct. Here is a link to that document and prosecution: http://www.justice.gov/usao/gan/press/2011/04-13-11.html
Sorry, but your post above is just dishonest. The article you linked to does not state that the 2 studies were "faked" or "fabricated". Thorsen was an investigator who faked expenses forms and invoices so he could steal some of the money that was earmarked for research – your article does not state that he "faked" any of the actual research. In scientific studies, the two most important authors are usually the first author and the last author, and Thorsen's name is 6th and 4th (in the middle). Thorsen’s position in the author lists of these two papers indicated that he clearly was not the primary contributor for these studies. Thorsen was primarily responsible for admin/distributing grant money, and he had no financial incentive to doctor any research results one way or another (he was an opportunist defrauding the money for himself irrespective of what any research showed). Launching an Ad Hominem attack on one dodgy investigator does not discredit the actual scientific studies. Notice that the studies themselves have not been retracted (as Wakefield's study was). And don't forget there are many other studies in various countries that have refuted the vaccine-Autism link.
Sorry, but your post above is just dishonest. The article you linked to does not state that the 2 studies were "faked" or "fabricated". Thorsen was an investigator who faked expenses forms and invoices so he could steal some of the money that was earmarked for research – your article does not state that he "faked" any of the actual research. In scientific studies, the two most important authors are usually the first author and the last author, and Thorsen's name is 6th and 4th (in the middle). Thorsen’s position in the author lists of these two papers indicated that he clearly was not the primary contributor for these studies. Thorsen was primarily responsible for admin/distributing grant money, and he had no financial incentive to doctor any research results one way or another (he was an opportunist defrauding the money for himself irrespective of what any research showed). Launching an Ad Hominem attack on one dodgy investigator does not discredit the actual scientific studies. Notice that the studies themselves have not been retracted (as Wakefield's study was). And don't forget there are many other studies in various countries that have refuted the vaccine-Autism link.
Luci, you'll note that there's a tendency to all kinds of logical fallacies from anti-vaxxers. Thorsen is a slime for stealing money, but he was just a name on the article. But given that there is no evidence for most of the anti-vaxxer claims, they go for poisoning the well arguments rather than real science. And as you said, Wakefield was a real fraud, proven over and over again!
Lots of amusing arguments here from the anti-vaxxer side. Thanks for knocking down one of them.
A disease spreading is good news for money grabbing politician's who can then push for mass immunisation programs and scare the crap out of parents. Vaccines spread diseases and vaccinated kids,not those of us who trust our child's natural immunity to protect it.
Here is a good example: A soldier was about to be shipped overseas, and was given a smallpox vaccination at a time when he would shed smallpox to an Arab country. His orders to go overseas were delayed, so he went home unexpectedly, and gave Smallpox to his 2 yr old son, who nearly died: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/18/health/18smallpox.html?_r=0
WONDERFUL! Thanks so much for this.
Will Ohio now pursue non-vaccinators for neglect?
Oh yes, sheeple! We should all do it just because the government says we have to! They show us proof don't they? Of course they do – they show us whatever the hell they want. Start thinking for yourself. We don't have immunities to virus/bacteria because we sanitize everything and take vaccines for everything – many senior citizens have immunity to swine flu. Think about why. Do more than read an article or two by some published by some biased newspaper/magazine.
Michael, you are an irresponsible. Before you begin spouting out your opinion without doing your research, please stop and educate yourself. If you choose to put yourself in the public eye, you have a responsibility to research your topic. IF you had taken the time to research your topic you might have discovered the amount of toxic substances that go into vaccinations, the level of toxins that are found in a mother's placenta from the toxic environment we live in today in today (those toxins get based onto they baby), the ridiculous vaccine schedule that subjects babies to far more vaccines than 20 years ago, the unnecessary vaccines that are in that schedule (i.e. Hepatitis C when the mother is clear).
You want the science behind it. You will never get it. As you know the FDA, instead of doing their own independent research, relies on the pharmaceutical companies to supply research on a particular drug or vaccine. You will never see a research study come from a pharmaceutical company about the safety of these multi-dose vaccine visits to their pediatrician. There is no study and never will be. They would never be able to publish the results. What are you left with in that instance? As a practitioner, empirical data. You may say that is a load of crap, has no science behind it and is just coincidental, but I have seen enough mothers come into my office and tell me their child was happy and normal one day and non-responsive the next after their vaccines. You cannot ignore it. Look at the symptoms of autism and the symptoms of mercury poisoning and tell me they are not the same. If you had done your research you would know that Thimerosal was (and is still in Flu vaccines) in childhood vaccines.
I am not saying don't vaccinate. What I am saying is really know both sides of the coin. Know the risks on both sides. We are not on the same playing field we were 20 years ago, and we shouldn't act like it. There are many more risks now. AND, people have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE what to put in their bodies. And it is the parent's responsibility to do what they feel is right to keep their child happy and healthy. It should not be forced by government, whose legislators are influenced by the big pharma lobby in Washington. Do not think for one minute this issue is not influenced by the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR. If you don't you are naive.
As an *empiric* chiropractor how do explain your website touting treatment for *subluxations* when the UK General Chiropractic Council says….
"The chiropractic vertebral subluxation complex is an historical concept but it remains a theoretical model. It is not supported by any clinical research evidence that would allow claims to be made that it is the cause of disease or health concerns."
And…..
"No supportive evidence is found for the chiropractic subluxation being associated with any disease process or of creating suboptimal health conditions requiring intervention. Regardless of popular appeal this leaves the subluxation construct in the realm of unsupported speculation. This lack of supportive evidence suggests the subluxation construct has no valid clinical applicability."
And you want people to take you seriously?
[...] Court decides parent’s refusal to vaccinate kids is not “free exercise of religion” Why Is Romney Campaigning on Medical Quackery? Probiotic for babies may not fight allergies later The drugs don’t work: a modern medical scandal [...]
I deleted all of my posts here bc it is a waste of my time to be on this discussion. thankfully, our legal system is much better than this and individual court cases can always be overturned. What scares me more than those who won't respect my freedom to refuse unwanted medical care as well as my privacy is that what other rights do people on this site believe it is OKAY to take away from its citizens?
You are not free to infect others with disease for which there is a vaccine. No one should respect a parent that tries to prevent their children from being vaccinated. Anyone who fails to do so deserves to lose their kids (and be jailed for years).
Greg Breed you are an absolute goose!
what about the kids that alergic to vaccines? what do u want us to do? Go please vaccinate my child so he/she can go into a alergic reaction and die? wth… yah some vaccines are good but there are those I can not give to my own kids cause they have bad reactions… but no, were going to call protecting the kids from those shots neglect. some people need brains..
Very rare event. No one is going to force someone to vaccinate if there is a legitimate and provable medical issue. No one who advocates vaccines has ever stated that. Don't create a strawman argument with histrionics. It's embarrassing.
My problem with the parent's argument ( and a lot of people are using this argument) is that vaccination goes against their "religious beliefs". Religion has nothing to do with your choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate, unless you're Amish. They should just say, "I'm not comfortable giving my child these vaccines". I do not believe that they will ever force a parent to give their child a vaccine if that child has had reactions to vaccines before.
i don't like the parents argument of religious beliefs either. But, my son has very bad reactions to the flu shot as does my daughter and my mother. My mother turns blue and quits breathing. I get so sick i end up in the hospital. So, its something i fear, cause so many places demand flu shots and the kids reactions and mine.
I wonder if there is anything you can get, like a medical alert bracelet for them and yourself.
Yea what the guy said about medical issues they are not going to take your kid away if there is a medical problem and that child is allergic to the medicine in the vaccination i would worry about it they are only talking about people that refuse the shots cause of a religion belief witch the lady is an idiot.. it has nothing to do about believe its about having your child take the vaccination so they dont get badly sick and die!!!
could you please explain "Religion has nothing to do with your choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate, unless you're Amish" Are you saying Amish is the only religion you recognize as deeply held beliefs?
Michael Simpson It's not a very rare event. Proof?
This is not alternative health conspiratorial conjecture. This has been officially recorded but barely reported. So here is a sampling of recorded disease breakouts among children who were vaccinated for that disease.
Enforcing or increasing vaccine schedules does not really prevent disease; it only increases the chances of worse health or gravely critical adverse reactions, ranging from autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) to decreased immunity and increased poor health.
Some Known Outbreaks of Vaccinated Kids.
The most recent outbreak occurred in California. The disease was whooping cough, or pertussis. The vaccination that has become a regularly scheduled pediatric ritual is a combination of three vaccines known as DTaP or DTP, which stands for Diptheria – Tetenus – acellular Pertussis.
This three-in-one vaccine cocktail is supposed to prevent diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis, or whooping cough. The pediatric vaccination schedule calls for administering this cocktail at two, four, six, and 15-18 months of age. Four vaccinations of three vaccines each administered to children before one and one-half years of age.
Dr. David Witt initiated a study after an unusually large number of whooping cough cases were admitted to Kaiser Permanente Hospital in San Rafael, California during 2010.
After examining the records of those stricken with pertussis over an eight month period, Dr. Witt and his team were surprised to learn that the vast majority, 81 percent, of the whooping cough kids had received their full four shot battery of DTaPs or pertussis vaccines alone.
Eleven percent of the pertussis victims received some less than four pertusssis vaccinations, while the remaining eight percent were never vaccinated for whooping cough at all.
Please pause and reflect. There’s something obviously wrong with this. Other recent pertussis outbreaks were blindly blamed on unvaccinated kids contaminating vaccinated children, without any investigation.
That, even if true, which Dr. Witt’s survey indicates is not, is something to think about. Vaccinations are supposed to confer immunity, right? This study implies that vaccinated children are infecting the unvaccinated.
The New York Times also reported on this overall trend with their headline “Vaccination Is Steady but Pertussis Is Surging.”.
It wasn’t long ago that the New York and New Jersey area had a mumps outbreak. Eighty percent of those kids had been fully vaccinated with the MMR series (measles, mumps, rubella). (Natural News, source below).
In Canada, four studies conducted in 2009 suggested a link with the seasonal flu vaccines’ increasing swine flu or H1H1 infection by up to 250 percent. (Science Daily, source below).
Hiding the Vaccine Dirt Under the Media Rug.
Realize that vaccines are inexpensive to produce and do not undergo long term testing. They are being promoted and enforced by state legislators and school districts at the behest of pharmaceutical lobbies. Sometimes money changes hands from Big Pharma to politicians.
But much social enforcement occurs by guilt from the media and medical profession. The mantra of avoiding vaccinations furthers epidemics because “herd immunity” is only granted by vaccinating at least 90 percent of a population — is nonsense.
Meanwhile, the vaccine manufacturers are protected from liability by the government’s federal National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) established after a rash of lawsuits from extreme neurological side effects caused by 1980s swine flu vaccines.
This “Vaccine Court” compensates the vaccine injured directly with federal funds and small taxes collected from vaccine manufacturers. It also hides actual cases by not releasing press releases to the lamestream media.
VAERS (vaccine adverse effect reporting system) is another bad joke. It’s estimated that less than five percent of vaccine adverse events get reported, and very few of those hit the MSM. This one did once, years ago – CBS 60 Minutes Documentary.
..I copy and paste this…fyi…from Activist Post…
Yep! I saw that. Thank You.
You just proved the vaccine works but it simply needs a booster shot around 12 years of age. I think that is called an own goal
..what the article reveals the "unknown" aspects of what you and the pharma industry want to ascribe to "side-effects"…of which, studies have shown…are only studied for 48-72 hours after the delivery of the vaccine…this is done so that big-pharma can claim no "side-effects" ..because the don't admit to the level of sever complications that kill and maim kids…only that their drugs never hurt and always help….they are liars and killers..and you should be ashamed of shilling for them…idiot..
Drug addled conspiracy nut. You have not got the brain cells left to put together a valid response to the science put right in front of you. Lets take an example. You claim autism is caused by vaccines. Cite one peer reviewed study published in a high impact journal that supports your claim.
…the world is catching on to your"peer-reviewed" scams..just like the air was okay to breathe at ground-zero-911, or that "fluoridation" is good for you…the internet has allowed millions to "review" the reviews and we know they are self-contained, internally controlled lies that are put up as public relations screens and legal screens to keep out the legitimate claimants…controlled by corruption…that is what most of your "peer-reviewed-crap" is…I have to go to the store an spend some of my delusional money, but I'll be back with the autism link…regards,..get some air and a new perspective…it may help save your sanity later in life..
Sorry, but this is total bs. I'm 31, healthy, and never been vaccinated in my life. (I've barely even caught a cold my entire life cuz my body built its own defense system against that, never had to take medicine either, not even aspirin). You guys can argue till you're ill, but I'm living proof. There is NO REASON that choice should be taken away. Weather the side effects fit your agenda or not, there ARE side effects to vaccinations (like all drugs) and should be decided by the parents, not the government, period.
So presumably, you'll shortly be posting your full medical records somewhere online, so that we can all verify your claim.
I was born at home and have a late registered birth certificate too. I presume you wouldn't believe I even exist anyway, lol.
Yes, we're awaiting your full medical records, which we would like verified by a real physician not by a naturopath or some bogosity like that.
Geri Corvus ….you and Mr. Simpson are like leeches attached to he foreskin of the government penis…your life must be sustained by the blood of other's work…and you seem to have to, or want to be a shill for the vaccine industry…rather than see Derek's medical records..I'd rather see you and dufus-boy-Simpson's income records…btw…doesn't it hurt to have to keep sucking all the time?
RJ O'Guillory Wow, The Pharma Shill Gambit with penis joke. The sure sign of a desperate man. What don't you just admit you know nothing about science or medicine?
Kelly..baby….have you had to endure "braying" like a donkey jokes your whole life..? Sorry for that….I don't know what you are talking about…I never mentioned big-pharma until douche-boy did…so go bray somewhere else..
Only as a child, and I beat the crap out of them. My father was an army champion boxer and taught me how to fight. They were nothing but a bunch of impotent blowhard pussies just like you. Now that I am an adult, I rarely run into someone as ignorant, drug addled and immature as you.
Derek Atkinson Sure, I believer YOU exist. But at your age, you surely know by now that you shouldn't make any claims without being prepared to back them up?
Especially on a site that's literally named "skeptical" lol! If you reread my comment you'll see that I've said nothing of doing away with vaccinations nor have I advised any against getting them for themselves or their families. I'm debating weather or not parents should have the freedom to choose (and last time I checked I didn't need a doctors note to debate personal freedoms). But at your age, you surely know by now that it's the physician's job to recommend available treatments, while it's your job to decide how you want to treat.
Derek, how's your reading comprehension? I was talking about your claims to never having had any illnesses whatsoever; I think you mother may say different.
Funny you question my comprehension and immediately follow it by misquoting me, lol!! At what school do they teach that "never" is synonymous with "barely." I don't think you're a poor reader though, necessarily, you just like to read things that haven't been written. But anyways I'm extremely bored with this and you now and no, I've never sought medical treatment for any illness (and yes, my mother would attest to that, even tho there's no record for not going, lol). I was, however, treated for a broken arm in 7th grade and for a car accident in 08. I must now bid you farewell, good day to you madam.
I will give Derek that he is never sick and never had any sort of vaccination. May not be skeptical of me but the health of one individual is not the point.
Vaccines do not protect one individual. They protect entire populations of people. If you had entire cities with people like Derek you would find that many people are healthy and fine. And that many other people have diseases which have long been removed from society via vaccines. You can examine other places on earth where vaccines are not as widespread as they are here and you will find many healthy people… and many people who die of trivial diseases.
So the health of one individual who goes without vaccines is completely irrelevant.
Derek Atkinson And a good day to you too, sir. Not staying for more debate? Good way to make yourself look like a troll. Still, its your free decision.
Michael Simpson you are, to put it bluntly, an idiot.
So all 6.5 billion of us are exactly like you and enjoy your smooching off of herd immunity?
Not likely.
I'm 33 and perfectly healthy. I've gotten all my shots. I even got the MMR, Flu, and tdap just the other day, on the same day. And look at me. The picture of health.
There, I just invalidated your point.
You’re doing something right, Michael! A person who works at a chiropractor called you an idiot.
If that isn’t proof of the validity of science I don’t know what is. Those leaches are the most anti-science bunch on the planet.
Oh golly gee whiz…kids and others who have posted from their hearts here…I guess I'm an old schooler at heart and a nurse on top of it as well…I have never in all my nursing career as well as personal experience have NEVER heard of anyone have an adverse reaction to any of the childhood immunizations…hey I'm not saying they don't exist…but to refuse to allow your child NOT to receive immunity for themselves is an act of ignorance…and I'm sure your child will thank you later on when they wind up with something that could have been prevented from their loving parent…at an early age! kids…(parents) get all the facts FIRST before making your decisions…don't let the media make that decision for you!
So we can't refuse vaccinations due to religion, but we CAN mutilate an infant's genitals "for religious reasons"? I delayed and separated my son's vaccines, and will do so for any child of mine in the future.
Just to add – I know you've stated that you have never heard of anyone having an adverse reaction to a childhood immunization, however, the CDC and the FDA have. That's why they have set up the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and there is also the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP).
VAERS is not proof of causality between vaccines and the adverse event. That is a myth. It's amateur science of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Jennifer, you faith in VAERS is somewhat misplace. Anybody can report anything to VAERS; although some claims are investigated, there are no preliminary checks whatsoever. The result is that ANY death after a vaccination, even those from accidents or from totally unrelated causes, can and have been reported to VAERS as vaccination-caused.See http://thepoxesblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/vaers-as-evidence-of-vaccine-harm.html
Thank you Geri. I've bookmarked that for future reference. VAERS has become the garbage dump of every complaint about vaccines. Real FDA adverse events are made by physicians with all of the medical information, including, if possible, detailed detailed medical case reports. If it is serious, sometimes a medical or regulatory official from the company will follow up with a call or in-person visit to review all of the data, with the final report submitted to the FDA for review. If it's serious, the FDA will do the same. If the FDA sees a trend, then the FDA will pursue regulatory action up to and including recall.
Just to preclude the usual "the FDA is in bed with Big Pharma" ad hominem, hiding this information is a felony. Yes, the FDA has dealt with it. I remember watching FBI agents arrest top executives of many companies who tried to hide adverse reports. And too many regular people in Big Pharma are way too ethical to ever want to break laws. They just report this stuff to the FDA without interference from anyone anyways. It's just silly to think that some VP way up the ladder gets involved with day to day activities.
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html – you will notice this was established by the US Govt.
NVIC's co-founders worked with Congress on the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34). This historic law acknowledged that vaccine injuries and deaths are real and that the vaccine injured and their families should be financially supported and that vaccine safety protections were needed in the mass vaccination system.
Michael Simpson – either you WORK for big PHARMA or you have no life.
Yet cutting up their genitals is?
..what a vaccine shill this person is….if they mandated it to a child of mine, and they forced me to vaccinate..and the vaccination led to autism or or the death of my child….since we are talking hypotheticals here…I would hunt down every child of every person involved in the…. case, lawyers, judges, government pigs who stuck their nose in my business..and I'd burn them and their children alive…one at a time…but first I'd do their kids so that they could watch their children die horrible deaths…….Regards,…RJ.
Well don't you sound like a bowl full of sugar in a flower field on a warm sunny day.
…well, it is a bit of hyperbole…we don't want DHS knocking on my …or down my door..but it is a dramatic way to get the attention of these …"oh, it is all perfectly safe" shills who are not having to watch the potential of their child slip away down some horrible hole of autism..they can go jump in a lake…and really..juts because seven old white men sitting around in black robes says…"this is "constitutional"…well that certainly doesn't make it moral…eff'..them..if you want to read a more light-hearted take on my life,..read my memoir ha!.
Watch out guys. We got a badass over here.
Yup, he's a real keyboard warrior, all right!
No you wouldn't, RJ. But the fact that you fantasize about it is sick.
….you know nothing about me son…nothing of my status as a "Federally protected Whistle-Blower"…nothing about the three kids I have raised without raising my voice..ever…you know nothing of the corruption and evil that lurks at the heart of our government…or my twenty-five year battle with your government to stop abusing people, employees, laws…ethics….all over the world…Japan, Germany …Bosnia, Hungary….Korea…how about you son…or your two dork compatriots above here…have any of them ever stood up for anything..? Well, dipship…I have…have you ever been visited by the FBI because of your political writing or beliefs…? Have you ever been brought in by "security" people and had the good-cop-bad-cop routine played out in front of you…I doubt it…you would all three be wetting your pants…have any of you ever been beat by a 6-9, 350lb man who is supposed to be your parent..?I doubt any of you have ever been out of your home state, or had the nerve to speak up to your mums, let alone the government….when you have a lifetime of those experiences…then you can presume to try to understand who I am…or predict what I might or might not do under given circumstances…now, get back to work, there is a spill on aisle 5….Regards,
RJ O'Guillory
Thomas Price is right, we have a badass here. Well more like a delusional individual with a highly troubled past. As for your baseless attacks, I've been in several states on my own, and have no trouble with dissent, whether on the streets in front of police with riot gear, or writing letters and making phone calls to those in power. Now if you're ready to take my order, I'll have 2 double cheeseburgers with extra mustard and no onions.
…actually…if you had the money, I'd love to take your order…people like you buying burgers from me has supported my entire life, and helped me to achieve all kinds of things…it helped me live in a 600 year old home in Germany…I've played gold in a dormant volcano in Italy, climbed Mt. Fuji….spent my weekends in Amsterdam, Prague and Budapest…I went on to be certified in 19 different businesses, taught marketing, communications and EEO compliance for the gov….in addition to being given a personal tour of Air Force One…not to mention finding out at the age of 49 that I'd been genetically epileptic (obviously, my whole life)…and I survived a epileptic-fugue induced 70mph drive off a 200 foot cliff, got flipped out of the car and ripped out the back window as I fell the 200 feet to the rocks below…(I recall none of it)..but I survived a broken back in five spots, a broken neck in 4, several broken ribs and a nineteen staple gash in my head and brain…so.. I hope your janitorial job gets you the things you'd like in life…for me…being a hamburger flipper..and using the companies I worked for in terms of my business education was a bright idea…I never got to go to college, but I traveled the world at the grade of a GS 12 (Lt. Col.)…I ran a $20,000.00 a day bar on an abandoned soviet air-base in Hungary…but I was able to do stand-up comedy (successfully in San Antonio), write a book, and raise three great, stable kids…so I hope your wal-mart stint gets you where you want to go…(Ii debated whether to be snide with the remark…then decided it would get your attention…I see it worked..ha!) Regards..RJ
..sorry…that would have been "golf" in a dormant volcano in Italy…ha! sometimes my brain-damage is more obvious than others…(come on, that was like ut on a gold platter for you…Ha!)
RJ…seriously, you are delusional. I would suggest you get back on your Big Pharma medications. Your manic episodes are kind of scary.
…yes…that was an intelligent reply…how long did it take for you to think that remarkable, wholly-original "Big Pharma" thing up? The fun part of telling the truth as much as possible…I don't have to worry about idiots like you….unfortunately…the world will still be saddled by soulless creeps like yourself…imagine the day you reproduce and give your kid a vaccine…imagine that child's temp jumping and realizing that you were responsible for allowing these monsters to stick your kid with something that may help, may not help, may harm…or may even kill or debilitate your child for life….do that…go through that and then recall your idiotic comments on this thread….very sad..you folks are…
Michael Simpson Sounds like a Howard Hughes in the making
Michael Simpson …btw…I take a massive amount of Keppra for my seizure activity which almost kills me eery five-six weeks….and I have a great script/supplier for my medical-weed…but beyond that, no pain relief, no head-drugs…no memory enhancing drugs…nothing…but you go on ahead and make fun of people who need medication…that makes you sound like such an informed stud…
We are not making fun of people who need medication. We are making fun of arrogant delusional mentally ill blowhards who like threaten other peoples children.
…nice try dipship…go back to you junior college and try to make something of yourself….bray, bray, bray, bray…just like a jack-ass
Too bad you have become just like and no better than your parents. Psychopath.
Kelly M. Bray ..perhaps…you never know what can happen in life…the funny thing is…I have a book already that is being considered for movement to the big-screen…how about you..? Probably the biggest thing you can proclaim to have done in your life so far is simply stay alive…really a remarkable thing considering how dense you sound…but let me know about all those big accomplishments in your life…I'm sure you have…more than enough to write a book…go aboard the President's Plane and receive a personal tour..? No..I guess you've lived around the world and experienced all kinds of different cultures and experiences? You've been picked up by a UN Blackhawk in the middle of a a war zone?…No…? How about having been kicked off a golf course by the secret service and the President of the US…no, see..I don't think so….as much as you'd like to make fun of me or my life experiences …you know deep down you are just a loser of a soul trying to abuse others in a manner that you wouldn't dare face-to-face…sad, little person…that you are…
Kayla Ursini …funny how my response about my prior message being hyperbole has been taken down….America…the land of freedom and censors, living together in happy unison…like the lions and the zebra…oh, oh wait…the lion ate the zebra…why would they take down my hyperbole explanation…but leave the original..? Odd eh?
RJ O'Guillory Reviews, other than the ones you wrote yourself. Sockpuppet anyone?
1. "His book is terrible, and if you look at his other reviews, he posted them himself. He has a massive ego, not a healthy confidence, a MASSIVE ego. This guy is a complete self proclaimed "author". HA. Look up this guys name on the web and look at the trash he's produced / written about. NEVER get this book, fake reviews should be removed (maybe amazon should check the IP / email addresses of these other "reviews"If your curios, don't get the book, or, first do research on the web of other things he's written and see if you want to waste your time as well. "
2. "Forgive me, but this book has such an over-the top style of prose that it was just hard to slog through. I couldn't finish it. "
3. "I wanted to scream at this guy! Grow a pair!!! We read this book for book club, we all hated this book! I wasted $25.00 on this trash, I wish I could make him pay me back!! We all skiped through it, as it was so darn awful! Do not waste your money or your time. I do not reccomend this book at all. "
4. "I hope this book is labeled fiction. I grew up near the author and attended junior high school with him. First of all Steger was not 2/3 black. Of the three feeder elementary schools two were pretty much all white and the other one was less than 50% black. Bongs and cigarette smoking outside of the school? Puleeze! This makes me doubt his alleged abusive parents. Mayhem, shootings, and stabbings? Laughable"
…yes, I know..the great part is I did not write any of the other reviews and about 40% of the people who read my work, really like it..the rest, not so much for different reasons…I can live with that…still beats anything you've accomplished in your life…and the fact that I've PO'd some of my readers is a sign of accomplishment…most are people who abuse their own kids and can't stand the spotlight..and sorry to dis-appoint…but I've non-violently and intelligently raised three very productive, happy adults..so nice try, but that little jab won't work either…so what were you saying again..? son…? You people are so petty and full of judgment…for losers who really have not done a thing with you lives..as yet…but keep trying to insult me…for every ten people who follow and hate me…three or four will buy my book…some will like it some will not…you know, I've been dead at the bottom of a two-hundred foot cliff with my head ripped open…how seriously do you think I'm going to take you idiots…? ha!…but keep going, I'm sure it is like masturbation for you…eventually something will pop up that you'll have to do something with….just make sure to have a towel handy..Regards….RJ.
..btw..I love that you guys keep having my post deleted…but I've got you to mention my book now several times..that's funny as all get out…!
I'm delighted! This should cut back on my exposure to illness from non-vaccinated kids, and *I* have two autoimmune disorders. I've gotten my flu shot every year for 12 years now, and stay current on all my vaccines as well. Oh yeah…and my autoimmune disorders are most likely shitty genetics.
Parents should have the right to refuse vaccinations. Our government gets way too involved in issues that have no business in. I can bet you that if something went wrong with that child due to a vaccination that they would turn their heads and say oh well…that it is now your problem! If they are mandatory by the government…they should also be paid by the governmen, t and the government should be responsible for the damages to any child, if any arises! Our country is truly turning into a dictatorship and it is truly a sad thing!
Two of my children triggered Autism after the 3 year old set of MMR vaccines. I was threatened by the doctors if I didn't give them the shots they would be taken. I believe most vaccines are ok but the MMR shot is just not good. I have done my research, It should be done away with. The rest of the vaccines are fine I even agree with smallpox vaccine which no one gives anymore unless you are going overseas. I will rally against the MMR until they stop giving it to chldren. There are thousands of kids who have had autism trigger after that shot.
It appears that certain babies are born with a genetic vulnerability to autism that is then triggered by something in the external environment, either while he or she is still in the womb or sometime after birth.
It’s important to note that the environment, in this context, means anything outside the body. It’s not limited to things like pollution or toxins in the atmosphere. In fact, one of the most important environments appears to be the prenatal environment.
Prenatal factors that may contribute to autism
Taking antidepressants during pregnancy, especially in the first 3 months
Nutritional deficiencies early in pregnancy, particularly not getting enough folic acid
The age of the mother (children born to older fathers also have a higher risk of autism)
Complications at or shortly after birth, including very low birth weight and neonatal anemia
Maternal infections during pregnancy
Exposure to chemical pollutants, such as metals and pesticides, while pregnant. Thimerisol (mercury) is no longer in MMR vaccines, however it is still in contact lens solution-wear contact lenses while pregnant you get the exposure of what was used in the vaccines 20 years ago, daily.
My son was showing signs at 6 months-BEFORE he had any vaccines, should I now blame the vaccines? Especially as I was the only one who noticed, because I was with him every single day 24 hours a day, and some of those signs are easy to miss. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/autism_signs_symptoms.htm
Karma was completely fine , speaking in phrases at age 2. Very bright still is Thank God. I never took anything I was not supposed to take during pregnancy with any of my 5 children so that was not a factor. I always take vitamins ect. I was below the age threshold for advanced maternal age. She was completely healthy , born at home with a midwife, no complications, almost 10 pound baby, I had no gestational diabetes She was just a big baby. No anemia. AFTER her MMR shot at age two she completely quit speaking for 6 months, I had to teach her how to speak all over again . She is now 12 years old. And on a regimin of amino acid ALA, vitamin c and flax seed. She has shown marked improvement, even though she is high functioning she still had severe perseveration and echolalia. IN the 3 months of the ala) Thioctic acid, it is an amino acid that Au patients do not make on their own) regimen her perseveration has dropped significantly as well as her echolalia, She is having more eye contact as well. I do not have to remind her to look at my eyes and tap my nose when I speak to her. I have worked tirelessly with my kiddos My son also triggered at age 2 his symptoms were slightly different however, 1 in 9 children with AU are girls. So it presented differently. He is also high functioning but is ore aggressive verbally than she is. He is now 10 year old. my 24 year old was fine,my 22 year old is fine, my 2 year old has not shown any signs as of yet, I watch her like a hawk. I work with them and homeschool them as regular schooling isnt for them. I was lucky to fins a lovely k12 charter that works online and has such a lovely special needs teacher who video conferences with my son twice a week. I am so grateful to her pediatrician who listened to my concerns and immediately sent her to Shands child psychiatric unti to be tested there in Gainesville Fla. Top notch doctor really worked with us and taught us so many valuable skills to deal with outbursts. CARD is fantastic organization for resources and outreach. Believe me I have gone over everything imaginable to pin point triggers. It always comes back to the mmr shot with those two. There is no history of Au in my family. Or in his. I would not change who they are for the world but it is definitely a deep challenge , especially when they have " Broken" days.
I'm the first on the spectrum in my family, healthy parents, my son was speaking by 6 months, and stopped at 9 months, when he turned two it was like flicking a switch-profound autism, he hadn't recieved the MMR when he was diagnosed. All children are different,and the early signs can be subtle, my own autism let me see the signs in my son that no one else did, everyone called me crazy, sadly his diagnosis was a kind of vindication(though I didn't want to be right), and my family and his doctors realized I wasn't making things up. Something wasn't right, I knew it and no one would listen. My son lives with his father as my autism was used as a reason against me. Keep fighting.
*Hugs* I know this is such a hard thing for you to bear. Keep fighting on your end as well. There are many natural treatments that can help abate some of the smaller symptoms and change quality of life. Since I have begun the ALA Alpha Lipoc Acid with the children they are more manageable in public . The major issues, like sensory, I have noticed only slight improvement , Karma no longer flushes the toilet with her elbow and she has actually used a toilet other than the one in the house! She is improving at a much faster rate than my son but he is showing improvements as well. The ALA cost 5 dollars a bottle for 200 mg 1 time a day in the am. Bobbi there is hope for all people with AU. I tell everyone I know about the change I am also currently studying MMS is a complete spectrum mutli vitamin supplement that i have heard AAMAZING things about. One of my friends has a son who never spoke a word , head banging. Since her use of the ALA and MMS combined her son though non verbal is able to use a ipad to communicate with her! Their quality of life has improved and now she has communication with her child that she didnt have before. I hope I was able to give you a bit of Hope.
I don't have custody, he lives with his dad and grandmother, who is a special education teacher(so best possible scenerio), he's in speech therapy, behavioral therapy, actually goes to a private school for autistic children(which I could never afford), is on a modified gluten-free diet, and is apparently doing quite well with horse therapy, as he bonds better with animals. He doesn't talk, except to animals(hence the horse therapy, he can talk just fine, just chooses not to), but does quite well with ASL for communication, it's suspected that like myself he has hyperacusis, which is NOT fun.
Nods, Horse therapy has done wonders with children. It is also in my personal opinion,that people with Au, Are so brilliant, that portions of the brain that " Normal" people do not use , they have access to. It's like thinking three dimensional . Example* Telepathy,or "seeing" math equations and answers without using pencil and paper or calculator,or mapping roads, Photodentic memory,All these things combined in one little person is overwhelming to other functions of the body. For example my son will say to me, Get ready my father is calling soon. Within 10 minutes, the phone rings and its him, I ask him how he does that, He said, He "saw" his dad ( who lives in Texas) Thinking about calling them. Theres just so much of the brain we dont know. And I'm so glad your sons father and his mother are being good to him. Loving support from all angles is always a good thing. it was hard for my ex to accept the fact the children were AU , even after diagnosis.
…what bullshit….
Ruth Anna Brown MMS…are you talking about Miracle Mineral Supplement, bleach?
Bobbi Sommer-Welch Take what Ruth is saying with a grain of salt. The *MMS* she is touting is just a bleach solution. It has never been shown to have any effect at all, and is dangerous to take. It is one of the worst quack remedies out there.
I never said to take MMS I said I was researching it. And no the one IM talking about is not bleach actually it is a vitamin suppliment. Besides , If I found out it were bleach I would never give it to my child, number 2 the ALA I am using , Is working currently so Im happy with the results. Research is NEVER a wrong thing to do and wow, Bleach, thats the first time I have heard that. Im gonna go find the links I have been researching and link
brainchilwww.dnutritionals.com/store.php?cPath=2 yjod This is one set of multivitamins fish oil for Omega 3 fatty acids and the like THESE are not bleach.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/316927-olive-leaf-extract-for-kids/ This is NOT bleach either.
Ruth, this is the bleach MMS – it's sold as a "cure" for autism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement
I'm very happy that you're not giving it to your child. And I expect you already know that some vitamins and supplements are toxic in overdose.
Yes, My husband is a biochemist and I asked him about the MMS link he agreed, after looking at the chemical make up of the compound by its self, is not bleach but when it hits stomach acid even it does become costic. and If parents are mixing it in oj it becomes even more acidic. Alpha Lipoic acid is an amino acid and are fine as they push heavy metals out of the system. Grape seed extract is fine as well,so is flax seed, however , he said the olive leaf extract can be harmful over long term use.I dont believe there are any straight up cures for Au, But I have seen drastic improvement in my daughter in the last three months. Which tells me that the MMR shot she got at age 2 was tainted still in 2002 when she recieved it while we were living in Ohio. I mean she still has some sensory issues but for the most part she has become reliable enough to be alone for abut an hour at a time. Which, before the ALA use would not have ever happened. There are many indicators that ALA was the best choice for her. Her quality of life has improved significntly. So most assuredly stand by that one hundred and ten percent. I have actually studied ALA or Thioctic acid for abut 8 years before I broke down and decided to try it. I saw what Conventional meds were doing to my kids and luckily we had wonderful doctor who advocates non medication of children, for a year we weaned them off of the stims first then the others one by one we got them off he meds an able to see clearly all the symptoms without meds to cover them up. Both chldren will both be restested as well here within the next 6 months which my husband and I feel is so very important. Re- diagnosis, or status quo woul be good to know. Anyway,
MMS seems to be caustic when mixed with any form of acid, He even said the the compound by its self even mixed wih a base is not wise either, it doesnt turn to bleach but it's a dangerous kind of sodium that can harm internal organs, like permenty shut down kidneys or liver fuctions first then mves on to other things.
You left out vaccines in environmental triggers, because even the CDC admitted vaccines can TRIGGER the genetics. Genetics load the gun, vaccines pull the trigger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uxJE92R0ss
Jessica Rocheleau Only in the very specific case of Hannah Poling, who has a mitochrondrial disorder. That isn't autism – some of the symptoms of such a disorder may resemble autism and can be triggered by a high fever- any kind of fever, not vaccination.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/mitochondrial-faq.html
Well Karma received her MMR shot at her 2 year well baby check up, not even three days later she spiked a fever and lost all vocal abilities for 6 months , screaming , crying pointing and utter frustration. There are no genetic markers in my family OR ex husbands family.No one has Au or any spectrum disorders period.like I stated in previous posts, all prenatal was fantastic, healthy enough for her to be born at home with midwife. Baby was big but i have big babies. My 21 year old is 6 foot tall. We drink bottled and or filtered water, no indicators , Ie. no echolaia no perseveration no ocd issues, she was a brilliant, normal child. Them BAM, had to start with speech all over again, the ocd kicked in the echolalia once speech came back ( about 6 months of working with her)Refusal to make eye contact. That one has been a fight since then until recently. Since shes been on the Alpha Lipoic acid she will make it a point to lock eyes at least once in a conversation then she will look down or away or look in your general direction if she isnt making eye contact. She recieved her MMR shot in Ohio of 02, I think there was still some tainted batches of the serum then. I have adjusted her diet to have as little as possible any processed foods. She cant have chicken nuggets from mcdonalds they make her go wacky. well wendys, chickfila and burger king , shes fine. So its not a gluten issue, no red dyes or blue dyes, very little sugars or caffine. So its not food allergies. i cut out the things that wonked her out or made her aggressive or hyper and the main criteria still did not change.However, I am a lucky mother as she is very high functioning. Sheldon from big bang theory is closet description of her behaviors. her origianl diagnosis was 299.00 au disorder then added to that was aspergers syndrome .
Vaccines are not 100% safe period. If they were there would be no need for the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html – you will notice this was established by the US Govt.
NVIC's co-founders worked with Congress on the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34). This historic law acknowledged that vaccine injuries and deaths are real and that the vaccine injured and their families should be financially supported and that vaccine safety protections were needed in the mass vaccination system.
The MMR is banned in Japan and has been for close to a decade for injuring and killing children: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html.
and then there is the Hannah Poling case where they proved that her vaccines caused brain damage with features of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0%2C8599%2C1721109%2C00.html
or the FDA's recall on Rotarix for containing a pig virus:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-03-22-fda-rotarix_N.htm
Parents should be able to decide which vaccines they want to give their child or not.
Really, you're going to bring that old stuff to me, who's an expert on vaccines. I ought to just delete your post for wasting bandwidth. Not one thing you wrote provides proof of anything but random…I don't know…words. For example, MMR isn't available in Japan because….they give the vaccines separately. Of course, the autism rate in Japan….keeps going up. So, you lose. Really, you need to do better with your non-science crap.
Michael Simpson – If you are such an "expert" then you would know about the NCVIA and you wouldn't be saying that "Vaccines are perfectly safe" when they do cause injury. Prove to me that they don't Mr. Science – you can't. You can only show that statistically the number of deaths and injuries is small in terms of the over all population, and I highly doubt all cases of injury and adverse reaction are reported. Most don't even know about the NCVIA.
And you should learn to read, as I mentioned nothing about autism in regard to the MMR. In Japan the MMR caused a record number of cases of non-viral meningitis. The British Department of Health said Japan had used a type of MMR which included a strain of mumps vaccine that had particular problems and was discontinued in the UK because of safety concerns. (There is your science)
You seem to be really full of yourself, and I am sure you're on the "bleeding edge" of science living out in Bakersfield the armpit of California out where there are more cows than people…yep.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Armpit%20of%20California
Gee William, that's a nice attempt to suggest that Japan doesn't vaccinate against measles, mumps or rubella.
In fact, they do vaccinate against all three.
http://idsc.nih.go.jp/vaccine/dschedule/Imm11EN.pdf
The mumps portion is optional. The Measles/Rubella portion is mandatory.
Related to the mumps portion of the vaccine being optional:
http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/countryprofileresult.cfm?C=jpn
They have a significantly higher amount of mumps cases in Japan – you think that's not unrelated to the vaccine being optional?
Linda Tock – I said nothing about Japan not vaccinating against measles, mumps or rubella. I said JAPAN BANNED THE MMR.
There is a big difference between giving individual shots spaced apart and STACKING them all in one dose. I said the MMR was banned because it was found to be dangerous. I didn't say that individual shots for measles, mumps or rubella weren't available.
You should also learn how to read as well, and not put words in in other peoples mouths that were not there. Putting words in someone else's mouth is simply rude. Would you talk to your mother like that?
Except that the Japanese schedule doesn't have 3 individual shots. It has a combined MR (Measles/Rubella). Furthermore, the first offering of the single mumps vaccine coincides with the obligatory MR vaccination.
So for those parents who opt to vaccinate against mumps, it's still given on the same day as the MR.
So much for your claim of individual shots spaced apart.
With regards to your last statement, I now have to replace my irony meter.
Hilarious. Do you not ride cars because they're not 100% safe either? You have a higher chance of getting into a car accident on your way to and from work on any given day than getting a vaccine injury from all vaccines.
Michael Simpson – Rate of autism isn't "going up", it's that it is being detected more because they know more about how to diagnose autism.
Linda Tick Tock some studies indicate that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome has dramatically declined since the Japanese Government decided to delay the MMR vaccine until a child turns two.
Vaccines are not 100% safe period. If they were there would be no need for the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html – you will notice this was established by the US Govt.
NVIC's co-founders worked with Congress on the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34). This historic law acknowledged that vaccine injuries and deaths are real and that the vaccine injured and their families should be financially supported and that vaccine safety protections were needed in the mass vaccination system.
The MMR is banned in Japan and has been for close to a decade for injuring and killing children: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html.
and then there is the Hannah Poling case where they proved that her vaccines caused brain damage with features of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0%2C8599%2C1721109%2C00.html
or the FDA's recall on Rotarix for containing a pig virus:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-03-22-fda-rotarix_N.htm
Parents should be able to decide which vaccines they want to give their child or not.
Now all we need is a vaccine to protect our children from religion.
nope a protection from parents who thinkj they know whats right!
Oh there is! Just have a Bible Study. Read and study the ENTIRE book, front to back. Be sure to emphasize how Yahweh is racist, arrogant, jealous, and spiteful. Consider the laws of Leviticus, the story of Saul and the Amelakites, and the preaching of Paul to the Romans as sources for a good, thurough vaccination against Christian Radicalism.
Wow this blog has some enlightened followers. Im glad there is somewhere on the internet where people still have some damb sense. I agree with your exagesis of the bible Thomas. Its too bad it says be fruiteful and multiply in that book. A darned shame.
Well there are seven billion of us, JV. And only about 2 billion are Christians. So the ones who are multiplying the most are not godly.
@Bobbie Danino, so you are OK with government deciding what is "best" for you? This becomes a very, very slippery slope.
This will get overturned. Regardless of how much this couple fights and has drug abuse issues, religious freedom from vaccines is on the law books in just about every state. Freedom from vaccines is still legal and it is a civil right.
No, the Supreme Court has ruled on it twice already according to this decision, so the precedent is set already.
This is a district court not the Supreme Court. I will fight whole heartedly to protect this right. In NYS I use the religious exemption.
Lisa, apparently you didn't read how the Supreme Court has already decided that the community health supersedes individual beliefs. "Freedom from vaccines" is also silly. Vaccines are perfectly safe.
Michael Simpson "perfectly"?????? I think that is a very strong word. The U.S. District Court in Ohio is not the Supreme Court, The U.S. District Court in Ohio is near the bottom rung, it has a long way to go and lots of litigation. Like I said, it won't happen.
Please re-read the story and the post above. The District Court relied upon two Supreme Court cases to make this decision. And I assume from what you say that you are simply another religious selfish bigot who puts your own requirement to do as you please because of faith above the well-being of your children and the community at large.
Given that Lisa, you also believe the rubbish spouted in the name of chiropractic, I'm not surprised at the nonsense you are posting here!
Michael Simpson – oh yes vaccines are so safe that's why the US Gov't established the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html
NVIC's co-founders worked with Congress on the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34). This historic law acknowledged that vaccine injuries and deaths are real and that the vaccine injured and their families should be financially supported and that vaccine safety protections were needed in the mass vaccination system.
Yes so safe we need legislation and a gov't body to pay out damages to injured citizens like say Hannah Polling where they proved that her vaccines caused brain damage with features of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0%2C8599%2C1721109%2C00.html
you don't know me well enough to call me a religious selfish bigot. I have a doctoral degree on this subject. I do not need an internet lawyer to explain this law to me.
This individual case has every right to go to the Supreme Court, there are too many individual state laws and federal laws that also set presidence. There is no Federal law on forced vaccination, there are too many legal quandries with it. like I said, this can be overturned.
I have a doctoral in BS and my diagnosis is that there is quite a bit of BS in your statement. A "doctoral degree on this subject?" You may have written a thesis on the subject, but a doctoral program on it? BS. Plus, looking at your education history, I call BS again.
…you are either an idiot…or a vaccine industry../ government shill…if you could feel shame…you should…Regards,…RJ
regardless of your comedic nature, this is a very serious matter and for those who don't follow the lies and deceptions , we want our privacy and civil rights. if you feel the science has proven its case, line up. but there are holes all over it. people don't understand the true nature of disease and poisons injected into the body has done more harm to our genetic lineage than we will ever realize. Good luck, God Bless, and Thanks for your respectful discussion….
Lisa Ann Homic A chiropractor is not a real doctor, an MD is. A chiropractor is an undereducated quack. Your page is full of garbage like colloidal silver and other totally unproven treatments. How can someone shilling for homeopathic remedies, sugar pills and alcohol tinctures even discuss vaccines since you have not got the faintest idea how physics, chemistry and biology works. You are nothing but a thief selling snake oil to suckers.
And the ties to Celiacs from vaccines has been completely debunked. There is no evidence in research to validate, on the contrary, it negates the claim
same with autism
I think this is crazyness, homeschool your kids if you don't want to vaccinate. I am an adult and choose not to have vaccinations, I get sick everytime, but my parents did what was right growing up and I thank them for doing what was right until I was old enough to decide for myself
There ARE valid reasons to refuse vaccination, and I will be refusing them for my own children until they are at least 3 and a valid test of their developing immune systems can be run (we don't have all of our immunoglobulin types and are missing various immune components until at least 3 years of age). I have a heritable Primary Immune Disorder, and didn't find out about it until I was 35, since the doctors never tested me for it. Unfortunately, due to this, I now have 3 Autoimmune Disorders, all of which have been documented as triggered by vaccination. Despite the extensive documentation, NONE of my doctors will give me a medical exemption from vaccines for myself or my children, so, despite being an Atheist, the ONLY thing I can do is claim a religious exemption. Removing it from vaccines is unnecessary and potentially DANGEROUS for me and my family.
You know my opinion on vaccinations,but your reasoning is valid and your concerns should be taken into consideration. Religious exemptions are ridiculous. But valid medical concerns are serious.
But what about when the very doctors who are the ONLY people who can register a medical exemption refuse to do so? My life is in danger from vaccines, and so to are the lives of any children I may have. I already have had my Celiac Disease triggered (at 2), had measles right after I got my MMR, had chickenpox 3 times (no chickenpox vaccine when I was a child, I simply caught it three times, I don't develop immunity regardless of vaccinated or unvaccinated state), PANDAS (as an ADULT), Autoimmune Arthritis, and now my thyroid is dying. My mother got Guillain Barre Syndrome from a flu vaccine while she was pregnant with me and fortunately recovered – but GBS can be fatal or lead to permanent paralysis.
There is only one valid reason to refuse vaccinations and that is a contraindication which are extremely rare. Your "developing immune system" comment is not based on anything scientific or medical. In fact, the infant is being challenged with thousands, if not millions of antigens within the first few months of its life. As if a few viruses and bacteria from vaccines are going to make ANY issue with a child's immune system given the number of antigens faced in food, air, water, etc.
Autoimmune disorders have nothing to do with vaccines. Period. Quit inventing science, you're doing a disservice to your children.
Tara, you're starting to go all over the place. Measles after MMR? PANDAS? GBS?
PANDAS = Pediatric Autoimmune Neurological Disorder Associated with Streptococcus. GBS = Guillain Barre Syndrome, which I have a greatly increased chance of getting, since my mother had it.
And if you look up the immunoglobulins, they are NOT all present in the immune system of the developing infant until 3 years or more. This is known, accepted SCIENCE. And that's precisely where I am deficient.
I have the ABSOLUTE form of IgA Deficiency. There is no detectable IgA in my blood, my bowel movements, or any of the other places it should be found. A blood transfusion containing IgA could kill me too, not just a disease.
And several of the various versions of the flu vaccine has been pulled from the market several times for the increased risk of GBS, an AUTOIMMUNE DISORDER.
Russ I still believe religious exemption is valid for people who believe it… it's our right to refuse vacations no matter what our reason is.
If you had the measles 'right after the MMR' – that means you were exposed to the measles (ie: the wild virus). It takes around 2-3 weeks for the vaccine to 'kick in' and trigger your immune system.
I smell a heaping pile. Celiac triggered by a vaccine? That is one HELL of a leap, since Celiac is caused by two separate faulty genes. Vaccines do not rewrite your DNA. If you doctors don't want to give you an exemption, it is probably because you don't need one. My guess is that you are also a hypochondriac.
Susan…Well, not according to the Supreme Court it's not. You don't have a right to harm your children or others. Vaccines save lives. Your unscientific beliefs don't.
Susan – yeah, go ahead and put every child in your local community at risk because you want to be a religious bigot – seems legit
Maggie…I started to lose track when Tara started to jump all over the place with a long list of diseases that were somehow related to vaccines, none of which made any sense at all. Well GBS and flu vaccine, but that's rare, and it's not inheritable. IgA deficiency plus autoimmune disease plus this plus that plus something else seems suspicious to me. The probability of all of that happening to one person starts adding up to 1 in a trillion. But people just start reading crap on the internet without actually going to see a real doctor, and invent self-diagnoses.
Michael Simpson, I thought the same. Celiac is a condition I know a great deal about, so I decided to focus on that. The fact that her doctors refuse to give her an exemption spoke to me in particular. If one did, in fact, have confirmed diagnosis of this virtual smorgasbord of AI disorders, they'd be writing her an exemption so fast their pens would catch fire. The kids…well, it was yet ANOTHER huge stretch to lump them in as high-risk vax recipients. GBS as a hereditary problem? You have got to be kidding me. I bet her doctors looove to talk about her webmd.com skills around the water cooler.
"triggered by vaccination" ? ooooga booga booga stfu. Leave this to people who understand science. Vaccinate your kids.
Martin Lugsdin "go ahead and put every child in your local community at risk because you want to be a religious bigot "
If the vaccines actually work a few unvaccinated children CAN'T put the others in danger – because those others have been vaccinated against those diseases. Or are you admitting that the vaccines don't work as advertised?
I predict in the next decade or so, the science will show that the new CDC protocol that crams about 40 vaccine doses into the first 4 years of a child's life does cause a few unintended consequences regarding the immune system.
I predict that in the next decade or so, the same people worried about vaccines will be testing the soil for chem trail residue and applying aluminum foil hats to their heads.
I'm sure if you have any sense at all, Bridget, you'll realize that it is those too young to vaccinate that are most at risk of infection.
I predict an even bigger breakout of Pertussis, Measles, etc in the next ten years because of decreased herd immunity and pseudoscientific fear mongering.
Maggie Knox The science isn't as set as you seem to think. Look at the graphs here and you can see that the decline in disease rates predates the introduction of the vaccines in many cases.
As for "too young to vaccinate, the current CDC protocol starts at birth, that first vaccine is given the day the baby born or the following day and by 2 months the infant will have received vaccines for 8 diseases.
And then there are the whooping cough outbreaks that seem to be affecting vaccinated people as much as if not more than unvaccinated people: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/248113.php
Like I said, the science is not as set as you seem to think.
If someone stuck a needle in my kid without my permission I'd be sticking a gun up their ass. These pharmafuckincuidical CO's are run by Sociopaths intent on creating customers for life…from the cradle to the grave.
Bridget – thanks for your lucid contribution. Of course it takes more than one crazy, selfish, ignorant, bigoted, holier-than-thou idiot to create the circumstances that affect the efficacy of a programme of vaccination. But there's at least three here if not more. I know, let's forget vaccinations and we can all die much earlier of small pox instead
Would that that were true, Bridget. There are children who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. There are children where the vaccine does not "take"; nothing in medicine is 100% effective in all patients. My children were both vaccinated against chicken pox, but one did not become fully immune, and had 5 days of misery with fever to 105° and scarring that lasted a year. The epidemic was brought to her school by an unvaccinated child.
And Richard, that (the fact that some kids DO react badly to vaccines) is exactly why each person needs to decide for themselves, preferable with the help of a rational physician, which vaccines and on what schedule. I was lucky enough to have exactly that sort of physician. Two of my kids received most of the vax on a stretched schedule. The third, we stopped all vaccines when he was 3 because he started developing new allergies almost weekly – so the risk of an adverse reaction was climbing.
Personally, I think the protocol for vaccines that existed in the early 80s was fine – as long as you allow for the exceptions who react badly. But these days, we are mucking about with vaccines that have only been tested in the short term and giving too many and much too close together. There have been no studies of the long term effects of that combination of vaccines in that time frame. And until there are, you can't claim that the vaccines are truly safe.
My area of study in college was Pre-Professional Biology. I'm pretty set on what science is and is not.
By all means, give an explanation as to why Washington State, with the highest incidence of anti-vaxers, has had a 1300% increase in Pertussis cases since last year. Please look on naturalnews.com and articulate why so many in the 12-13 age group where parents decided to forego the Tdap booster at age 11 have come down with the disease. Yes, Bordatella Petussis has started to mutate. Who exactly allowed a high enough recurrence of infection for it to gain this foothold?
It's no good Maggie, you'll never convince these people. You live in a country where a significant percentage of people think that Evolution is the Devil's theory, that the world was created about 6,000 years ago and humans coexisted with dinosaurs, so craziness on science is to be expected
1. I dislike Natural News, intensely – they wouldn't know science if it walked up and bit them on the ass.
2. So can you explain why the 2010 California outbreak had an 81% rate of up to date vaccinated patients? Can you document that a mutation occurred because of unvaccinated patients?
3. Are you also going to claim unvaccinated people cause the problems seen regarding the seasonal flu shot and H1N1?
Or are you willing to admit that we really don't know everything?
And you know, that IS the biggest problem as I see it – NEITHER side wants to look at the actual studies. BOTH sides are entrenched in their position. I frequently get attacked from both side – often during the same discussion for that very reason.
Hell, neither side wants to bother with long term studies at all, apparently.
I can easily explain why 81% of an outbreak was in the vaccinated population.
You're looking at the percentages without looking at the population sizes.
You have 1000 people. 10% are not vaccinated.
900 vaccinated/up to date on boosters
100 unvaccinated
For the sake of argument, we'll say that the pertussis vaccine is 70% effective; ergo 70% of the vaccinated population is protected, while 30% is not.
So 270 of the vaccinated population are 'at risk' – possibly their immunity had waned early, or they didn't seroconvert.
100% of the unvaccinated population is 'at risk' – since natural immunity also wanes over time.
Let's say that 20% of each group contracts pertussis.
That's 54 in the vaccinated group, 20 in the unvaccinated group and 74 total.
That comes out to 73% of all cases (rounding up) in vaccinated individuals. Does that number look familar?
But that's not really the whole story – what's the attack (incidence rate) in the population?
54 individuals out of 900 = 0.06
20 individuals out of 100 = 0.20
6% of the vaccinated population contracted pertussis; 20% of the unvaccinated population contracted it. So despite there being MORE cases in vaccinated individuals, the prevalence of disease is 3x greater for unvaccinated individuals
Tara Marshall
It sounds to me like you have had a rough time of it with your health – which is dreadful. I do applaud you for thinking ahead about your future children's health. I hope that they will be able to be immunized against tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis – each one of these diseases are deadly. Measles kills about a million children a year in poor countries without adequate public immunization, and it is the leading cause of blindness in children throughout the underdeveloped world.
If the immunizations would be genuinely dangerous for you or your future children, then you must ask your infectious disease/immunology specialist to write the letter of exemption. If he or he refuses to do so, it is most likely to be because of a valid scientific reason. Just ask then for their reasoning.There are also medical geneticists who can help you by investigating, with you, the best course of action for your future children.
But if you do not immunize your children at all, then you should #1 keep them strictly away from crowds, #2 keep them away anyone who is also unvaccinated, #3 keep them away from sick people. The second reason is because of what is rather inelegantly called "herd immunity."
"Herd immunity" describes the protection provided to unvaccinated people as a result of other people in the population being immunized – The largely immunized population prevents or greatly reduces the risk of epidemics.
I wish you better health in the future!
The best way to preserve us is to keep this right protected, attempting force something on another's CHILDREN simply out of fear etc. is a testament to our stupidity and selfishness. Vaccines may seem great but don't put them on a pedestal because man is fallible and mistakes can be made, and those who choose not to submit to these things will then have the advantage. Besides the more often something occurs the greater chance we'll have to adapt and become naturally immune, isn't science great? Live and let live, it's not the end of the world people so quit acting like it.
Celiac Disease has 2 gene mutations that are associated with it – but in most people, the disease process needs a trigger to start it. Most people with it are NOT born sick, but become sick after an environmental incident. Celiac genes can remain dormant for decades or a whole life, barring accidents, infections, or vaccines.
@Linda – you just made a great case for allowing a minority of the population to choose to remain unvaccinated. And you probably don't understand how or why.
You admit that vaccines are not 100% effective, so the viruses are going to be out there doing their thing anyway. The small number of people refusing vaccines is not going to effect that by much. Instead of trying to force everyone to have every vaccine, educate the public with accurate and not sensationalized information instead.
Like I said above, the biggest problem here is that both sides have gotten entrenched in their positions and are refusing to look at the actual science. The anti-vax crowd thinks they are all bad even the ones we have been using successfully for decades. And the pro-vax crowd has gotten just as rabid and is now insisting that every new vaccination MUST be used by the entire population even if there are no comprehensive studies showing that there are no long term effects or that the combinations of vaccines we are giving are safe.
The net result of that pro-vax sentiment is that now, in many cases, the only way to refuse one vaccine, is to refuse them all under a religious exemption. Giving people back their right to choose and then offering accurate information to them, may help increase herd immunity overall.
You just made a case for requiring that statistics be an obligatory course for people if you think I just made a case for unvaccinated people.
If you're wanting a vaccine (or any drug, etc) that's 100% safe and effective, I'd suggest you look up something called the 'Nirvana Fallacy'
Because they're not 100% effective does not mean they are 0% effective. Condoms are not 100% effective.
The 'small number' of people refusing vaccines is INCREASING the number of available hosts for the disease to be harbored in.
Instead of 270 being vulnerable, we now have 370. This increases the chance that the disease can spread – because more people are at risk.
6% of one population contracts pertussis; 20% of the other contracts pertussis. If you think that makes a case for NOT vaccinating, then you're simply obtuse.
I didn't say it made the case for no one vaccinating. I said it made the case for not freaking out if 1 – 10% of the population doesn't.
And if you can't make your case without using force as you (general you indicating the pro-vax people who see no reason for any exceptions) are now, then maybe your case for vaccinating isn't as strong as it should be.
Again; that's not the case. The more that don't vaccinate, the bigger the risk of an outbreak/epidemic – because there are more people who are vulnerable to infection.
What about those who are too ill or too young to be vaccinated? Is it fair that their risk is also increased as the number of vaccine refusers rise?
And what about those of us who get sick or can be KILLED by vaccines? Don't we deserve to be tested before we and our children are automatically vaccinated? If our health is sacrificed on the altar of the "public good," don't we deserve to have our medical expenses from the disorders we got from being vaccinated COVERED by that public?
I have been slowly deteriorating since I was 2. My mobility is impaired, my bones, teeth, and joints are all negatively affected, and I get new food allergies every year. Not to mention the tremors, ticques, and OCD from neurological autoimmune effects that mean I've never been able to lead a "normal" life.
Exactly, Tara, it is a risk/benefit equation that is different for each of us. I am in a high risk group – I have Asthma and CHF but I still have to turn down a flu shot every year because I ALSO have a heritable neurological disorder that can be triggered by flu shots the way Guillaum-Barre is triggered by them. That's why it needs to be a choice and we need better and more honest communication about that risk/benefit equation.
Sensationalized fright mongering about miniscule rises in case numbers is not the way to convince people to vaccinate. For every one you get using fright you turn off two or three who go too far the other way resisting what they see as fear-mongering.
For people with *medical* exemptions, there is no issue. Don't get vaccinated.
A 3-9 fold greater chance of contracting pertussis is not 'minuscule'. Neither is the chance for contracting measles as an unvaccinated individual. That's why 90+% of all cases which have been in the US have been in unvaccinated individuals who brought it back from Europe or abroad.
That's why it's been +90% unvaccinated individuals in France who have come down with measles (to the tune of some 26,000), with 9 deaths and a quarter of those measles cases required hospitalization. How many of those 26,000 will go on to develop SSPE and die? 1 in 1000 are the odds, within 10 years.
What are the odds of a severe vaccine reaction from the measles vaccine? 1 in a million.
If you have a bona fide 'vaccine injury' you can go to the vaccine court and have those medical expenses covered by us, the public. That's why we pay a surcharge on vaccines – to pay the medical bills for those people with genuine vaccine injuries.
You can't even claim it's 'too expensive' to sue in the vaccine court; all the court costs are paid out through the court – even if your case is denied.
So – what do you have to lose? If you're genuinely injured from a vaccine – go to the vaccine court.
"So – what do you have to lose?"
Really? You really think Tara should vaccinate her kids knowing that her problems are vaccine related and hereditary? They should just vaccinate and go get money if their lives are ruined? THAT is the exact kind of attitude that cause MORE people to stop getting the vaccinations because they can see the absurdity in that attitude and then begin to wonder how truthful everything else is.
No, Bridget – learn to read, please.
"So – what do you have to lose? If you're genuinely injured from a vaccine – go to the vaccine court."
If she has a genuine vaccine injury, she should seek money from the vaccine court. That's what I said. Not what you're trying to say I said.
Vaccine court is a JOKE. The standard of evidence is something VERY few doctors will sign off on, and they know they are in danger from losing their medical licenses for doing so. You have to have, basically, medical observation AT THE TIME of EVERY SINGLE health setback, and a doctor willing to link each one back to the vaccine. Less than 1/100 people who have been told they had valid cases actually end up with any monetary damages.
The standard of evidence in the vaccine court is LOWER than the standard of evidence in other courts. If she has the vaccine injury she claims, she can file a claim. It won't cost her a dime; as I said – the costs are covered by the fund.
"Less than 1/100 people who have been told they had valid cases actually end up with any monetary damages"
Who told them their case was valid? Was it a doctor or a lawyer?
Again – if she has the injury, she can file a claim – no cost to her.
"They know they are in danger from losing their medical licenses for doing so."
How so? It didn't stop Tenpenny from testifying at vaccine trials. She still has her license. If she is vaccine injured, the proof linking her illnesses to the vaccines would be in her medical history. She'd have the time of her vaccinations, and the time of first onset of symptoms.
Oh, and my nephew lost his speech and regressed into Severe Autism after receiving his MMR and DTaP on his 18 month visit. Literally went from a smiling, interactive boy who had over 10 words down to no shared eye gaze, sitting in one spot all day, drooling, and not letting us know when he was hungry, thirsty, or had made another foul mess in his diapers.
I am NOT willing to see that happen to any of my own children.
Again, if you believe it is a vaccine injury, seek out the vaccine court.
I personally am not willing to risk my child catching a disease and dying from it, or complications of it (such as Angelina did here http://justthevax.blogspot.dk/2011/11/another-sspe-case-angelina-is-dying.html )
I would rather have a child that has no shared eye gaze, sits in one spot all day, drools and doesn't let me know if he/s hungry, thirsty or had made another foul mess in his diapers than a child that is dead.
That's my personal opinion.
Linda, it's pretty obvious you believe the crap the mainstram media says about the Vaccine Courts. Try talking to anyone who wasted their time trying to press suit. And the "damages" come from the federal government, NOT from the vaccine industry, which is FEDERALLY PROTECTED against lawsuits.
Tara, it's pretty obvious you believe the crap that Mercola, Tenpenny, Blaylock and others spout about the dangers of vaccines.
The damages come from the vaccine surcharge, which is on every.single.vaccine sold in the United States.
We, the public who vaccinate, are putting up OUR money to provide for those people with genuine vaccine injuries each time we vaccinate our children.
Tara Marshall Autism is not an event or a destination one reaches. Please, stop the silliness and the lies about autism.
Oh and you say you developed PANDAS as an adult? Thought the P stood for Paediatric.
Linda, sacrificing a few for many is wrong no matter what your excuse is, and money can't repair or replace a lost or damaged person/child. Way to be cold and disconnected from others, no compassion? How sad.
She wasn't asking for compensation though. She is asking to be allowed to choose differently for HER children so that they don't have to live the same problems she is. No amount of money from the vaccine court can accomplish that so maybe you are the one who needs to learn to read better?
Jeff Attridge …jeffy, jeffy, jeffy…first of all..it may be possible that the technique of vaccination does work, and in mnay cases may be a "good" thing…if not for the vile, excess of the greed in humanity that now has children getting 38 vaccines between birth and 8-10…oh, yes, jeffy…but go ahead and pull out the "tin-hat" "conspiracy theory bat …and try to intimidate and bludgeon others into "accepting" your form of science….that would be the same science that for years claimed the earth was flat the sun moved around the earth…and there is nothing to worry about in that air around the ground-zero of 911….oh, do you mean the science of the government agency NIST that explained those three buildings collapsing at "free-fall" speed…did you mean that "science"…or, better yet…how about all that "science coming out of Japan and the Gulf coast…you know..those gazillions of gallons of oil all over the Gulf coast…I'm sure some scientist can find a reason why that is so helpful…or no, wait a minute…something else you scientist have been so great about…Fukishima…yes,…there's nothing to worry about…absorbing as many as 5 "hot particles" a day here on the west coast of the good old, freedom loving, always great…America..where they never lie to you..and always have your interests at heart…not to mention the trillions of dollars inherent in a mandatory vaccine program that can literally kill off entire generations if it is wrong, defective or malicious…so no, take your science (at least the corrupt science) and throw it in the lake…regards, RJ
OKAY, how about you guys actually read the science involved. If you don't question it, if you're not ALLOWED to question it (which is the line from the CDC), then it's NOT SCIENCE. It's that simple.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=482153355152599&set=a.328197247214878.82307.265957116772225&type=1&theater
Oh, and the study the CDC is so fond of quoting? The one that "proved" there was no link between vaccines and Autism? Here's a little something about the "researcher" who did the study.
http://www.vaccinetimes.com/danish-researcher-indicted-for-financial-fraud/
Funny this never made it into the mainstream media or into any statements that the government has made about the study, which we now know was a complete FRAUD.
Her right to choose 'differently' for her child ends when her 'choice' puts others at risk. Why is 'her right' more important than theirs?
Furthermore, Bridget, she specifically said, " If our health is sacrificed on the altar of the "public good," don't we deserve to have our medical expenses from the disorders we got from being vaccinated COVERED by that public?"
So yes, she WAS saying she should be compensated. Therefore, she SHOULD get off her duff and apply for said compensation so her medical expenses from her 'disorders' she got from 'being vaccinated' are COVERED by the public.
Savvy?
And Tara, children do not have underdeveloped immune systems. They are functional at birth; otherwise they would have infections from passing through the birth canal and exposure to the flora that it contains.
Mercola is a happy man that you follow him. He makes over 7 million dollars each year from folks like yourself that believe everything he says about evidence based medicine. Poul Thorsen was a minor researcher on that paper, and his tax evasion/fraud has nothing to do with the paper.
Nice attempt at a red herring, though. Should I mention the folks that have gone after Mercola for not honoring his money back guarantee? His company has a poor rating by the better business bureau. By your logic everything he says should be null and void.
Thorsen made up figures and statistics for the paper WHOLESALE. Of course it invalidates the research.
The immune system continues to develop as one ages. That is precisely why children are vulnerable to infections that are NOT dangerous to the vast majority of adults (besides the immunocompromised, such as myself).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22003882
For that matter, it's been known now for DECADES that the infant gets the majority of its temporary immune status to a variety of adult diseases from BREAST MILK. Infants who are fed formula, and infants whose mothers were vaccinated rather than naturally having the diseases don't get this temporary immunity, because it is not passed on through the breast milk.
As for Vaccine Court, good luck getting ANY kind of monetary compensation out of them. Most people, regardless of how good the evidence is, get precisely NOTHING.
There are several adult victims of Guillan Barre Syndrome where the paralysis struck while they were STILL at the doctor's office and under medical supervision (which is part of how they lived through the progressive paralysis), who have been denied compensation. And some of these people do not recover, and remain paraplegic or quadriplegic for their remaining lifespan.
Breastmilk does not confer 100% immunity, and not all women breastfeed. Furthermore, if an unvaccinated mother hasn't had a given childhood disease, she CANNOT pass on any antibodies to her child.
Thorsen was a minor contributor to the paper; please show where he made up the figures and statistics. All the data found in the paper is available through the Danish Ministry of Health.
Again – if the evidence was so overwhelming, they would have received compensation. If there's evidence of other causes of GBS, then you cannot claim compensation.
GBS, like most other autoimmune disorders, can be caused by multiple things. But what about when the vaccine is quite clearly what pushed the person over the edge, after decades of other vaccines, infections, and other insults to the immune system?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsCPgc0yV-k
And, if you actually bothered to read my full comment, I stated clearly that the infants who were formula fed did not have any conferred immunity.
"After decades of other vaccines, infections, and other insults to the immune system"
If all the above is true; infections and other insults have occurred – how do you decisively say it's the vaccine that caused it, and not the other two?
If it's so 'clear' that it was causative, then there should be no issue with compensation.
I say that it's the vaccine that was the final trigger. Stop putting words in my mouth.
There are many disorders that are pre-loaded, to some degree, by genetics. Lung cancer, for example – yet we now hold the cigarette/tobacco industry responsible for the harm they have caused to people who were genetically susceptible to lung cancer.
Why should it NOT be the same way with vaccines and the damage they can cause? Because that, eseentially, is what you are saying. The Vaccine Courts, as I have pointed out repeatedly, DO NOT WORK, and do not give monetary compensation to most of those who have been vaccine injured or our families.
You say it's the vaccine that was the final trigger; but you're holding the rest of the causative issues irrelevant. Why didn't a previous vaccine 'trigger' it if it was a vaccine, or a previous 'illness' or a previous 'immune insult'.
Question for Linda:
"And Tara, children do not have underdeveloped immune systems. "
If that is the case, why are we told not to give infants honey?
You don't give an infant honey because it could be contaminated with botulism. The botulism bacteria colonizes the small intestine and then releases a toxin which can cause tics, paralysis and death.
It can result from inadequate microflora in the infant.
Inadequate microflora in a particular infant does not translate to underdeveloped immune system(s) in all infants.
If the immune system of an infant were 'underdeveloped' as you claim, a simple cold would put them in the hospital, and pneumonia, whooping cough and the flu would be 100% fatal.
It's amazing to me the amount of intellectual dishonesty I can find in our own community of Nonbelievers. 1/3 of Autoimmune Disorders have an environmental cause, and vaccines can be the trigger. You haven't even LOOKED at the evidence. http://image.thelancet.com/extras/02art9340web.pdfhttp://www.aarda.org/infocus_article.php?ID=33http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.119-a248http://www.examiner.com/article/risk-of-getting-guillain-barre-syndrome-from-h1n1-vaccine-confirmed
It's a small jump from there to Autism, since we already know that mothers with untreated Celiac Disease (another confirmed Autoimmune Disorder) are 3x more likely to have an Autistic child than mothers without an Autoimmune Disorder or mothers who are eating gluten-free. http://www.celiaccentral.org/celiac-disease-in-the-news/Celiac-in-the-News/161/vobid–1769/
Additionally, even though the incidence of actual Celiac Disease in Autism initially appears low, we run across some very interesting case-studies, such as this one, from Canada,http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19564647where a 3 -year-old boy was diagnosed with severe Autism, and made little progress in two years of standard behavioral therapy. At 5, he was diagnosed with Celiac Disease, and withing months of going gluten-free, he was talking, socializing, and eventually lost his diagnosis of Autism.
Now, since over 1/3 of patients diagnosed with Autism also have markers for immune disorders, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19135624http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19758536From there, the logic leads us to conclude, that if vaccines can trigger other Autoimmune Disorders, and a large subset of Autistic patients have markers for autoimmunity, vaccines could very well be the trigger for at least some subset of these children.
This is born out by multiple parental observations. http://www.followingvaccinations.com/
My own nephew appears in this list, I might add, and we were given NO HOPE by the mainstream medical doctors. They essentially told us that he would never learn how to talk, never be toilet trained, and it would be easier if we placed him in an institution early on.
We did not accept this prognosis, nor did we accept the offer of drugging him up to reduce his aggression. The antipsychotic drugs generally prescribed for this use tend to not only damage the liver, but can shorten the life span of the person prescribed them by a significant amount.http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-05-01-atypical-drugs_x.htm
So, with no hope given by mainstream medicine, we turned to alternative medicine. NOT homeopathy, mind you, but actual diets, supplements, vitamins, and other alternative therapies that may actually have some effect upon the body. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=J8lL_Tf2scchttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16920077http://www.tankdc.com/getdoc/8013a916-e24c-45a9-adde-cffdb269120e/Omega-3_Fatty_Acids_Supplementation_in_Children_wi.aspxhttp://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2431/11/111/abstract(My nephew was actually in one of the follow-up studies by Dr. Adams, and improved SIGNIFICANTLY upon taking the vitamins.)
Now, I'm not sure why so many of you feel so strongly that autoimmunity, autism, and vaccines cannot be related. Maybe you have a child in your own family that was consigned to the regular medical community. I know several of these children – mostly in self-contained, special education classrooms, on multiple anti-psychotic drugs, and making little progress on their educational goals. If so, I regret that this is the case. However, you needs to be able to LOOK at the evidence before saying that we are causing a "panic". This is intellectual dishonesty at it's WORST – refusing to even look at the evidence when it goes against your beliefs.
It's more than a small jump from there to Autism.
By the way, your link is broken.
Linda Tock
Because I simply re-purposed something I wrote a couple of months ago, rather than completely re-write basically the same thing, a couple of links have moved. I'll work on it later.
http://www.examiner.com/article/risk-of-getting-guillain-barre-syndrome-from-h1n1-vaccine-confirmed
Replacement for the first link.
And here's the new link for Celiac Disease presenting as Autism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19564647
The other links all pull up fine as of 8:45pm on 10/1/12.
here is a nice response to the great "peer reviewed" claim…. taken from the NY Times Last year the journal Nature reported an alarming increase in the number of retractions of scientific papers — a tenfold rise in the previous decade, to more than 300 a year across the scientific literature.
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Other studies have suggested that most of these retractions resulted from honest errors. But a deeper analysis of retractions, being published this week, challenges that comforting assumption.
In the new study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, two scientists and a medical communications consultant analyzed 2,047 retracted papers in the biomedical and life sciences. They found that misconduct was the reason for three-quarters of the retractions for which they could determine the cause.
“We found that the problem was a lot worse than we thought,” said an author of the study, Dr. Arturo Casadevall of Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx.
Dr. Casadevall and another author, Dr. Ferric C. Fang of the University of Washington, have been outspoken critics of the current culture of science. To them, the rising rate of retractions reflects perverse incentives that drive scientists to make sloppy mistakes or even knowingly publish false data.
“We realized we would really like more hard data for what the reasons were for retractions,” Dr. Fang said.
They began collaborating with R. Grant Steen, a medical communications consultant in Chapel Hill, N.C., who had already published a study on 10 years of retractions. Together they gathered all the retraction notices published before May 2012 by searching PubMed, a database of scientific literature maintained by the National Library of Medicine.
“I guess our O.C.D. kicked in and we started trying to look at every paper we could look at,” Dr. Fang said.
The researchers analyzed the reasons for retractions cited by the scientific journals. But they also looked beyond the journals for the full story.
In the mid-2000s, for example, Boris Cheskis, then a senior scientist at Wyeth Research, and his colleagues published two papers on estrogen. Later, the scientists retracted both papers, explaining that some of the data in them were “unreliable.” In 2010, the Office of Research Integrity at the federal Department of Health and Human Services ruled that Dr. Cheskis had engaged in misconduct, having falsified the figures.
Dr. Cheskis settled with the government. Although he neither accepted nor denied the charges, he agreed not to serve on any advisory boards for the United States Public Health Service and agreed to be supervised on any Public Health Service-financed research for two years.
Neither of the notices for the two retracted papers has been updated to reflect the finding of fraud. Dr. Cheskis could not be reached for comment.
Dr. Fang and his colleagues dug through other reports from the Office of Research Integrity, as well as newspaper articles and the blog Retraction Watch. All told, they reclassified 158 papers as fraudulent based on their extra research.
“We haven’t seen this level of analysis before,” said Dr. Ivan Oransky, an author of Retraction Watch and the executive editor at Reuters Health. “It confirms what we suspected.”
Dr. Oransky said he expected the rise to continue in the near future. He and his co-author, Adam Marcus, have been scrambling to keep up with new cases of fraud.
In July, for example, the Japanese Society of Anesthesiologists reported that Dr. Yoshitaka Fujii had falsified data in 172 papers. Most of those papers have yet to be officially retracted. “They’re headed for the fraud pile,” Dr. Oransky said.
Dr. Benjamin G. Druss, a professor of health policy of Emory University, said he found the statistics in the paper to be sound but added that they “need to be kept in perspective.” Only about one in 10,000 papers in PubMed have been officially retracted, he noted. By contrast, 112,908 papers have had published corrections.
Dr. Casadevall disagreed. “It convinces me more that we have a problem in science,” he said.
While the fraudulent papers may be relatively few, he went on, their rapid increase is a sign of a winner-take-all culture in which getting a paper published in a major journal can be the difference between heading a lab and facing unemployment. “Some fraction of people are starting to cheat,” he said.
Better policing techniques, like plagiarism-detecting software, might help slow the rise in misconduct, Dr. Casadevall said, but the most important thing the scientific community can do is change its culture.
“I don’t think this problem is going to go away as long as you have this disproportionate system of rewards,” he said.
This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:
Correction: October 1, 2012
An earlier version of this story misstated the federal agency housing the Office of Research Integrity. It is the Department of Health and Human Services, not the National Institutes of Health. The earlier version also misstated the reason cited in the study for three-quarters of the retractions for which researchers could determine the cause. It was misconduct, not fraud. (Fraud or suspected fraud accounted for 41.3 percent of retractions; other forms of misconduct made up the rest.)
Okay, so why don't you take a look at the FUNDING, which, unfortunately, has a lot to do with it. ALL of the funding for research in vaccines, except for that done by tiny little independent researchers operating on a shoestring, comes from two sources: the federal government, and the vaccine industry itself.
Sure, that shouldn't change "science." Yup, just like the funding from cigarette companies didn't change the "science" about tobacco, and the funding from The Heritage Foundation and other "conservative" groups didn't change the "science" about climate change, and the pharmaceutical industry had even the FDA convinced that antidepressants were perfectly safe for kids (knowing, all the while, that more kids on them would commit suicide).
They've DECIDED on the answer they want to find, and they're spending money to specifically find the answer that vaccines are "safe." Everyone who works in the research KNOWS that this is the answer, and any evidence that they are not is carefully disregarded in places like VAERS, since the ONLY PEOPLE who even want access to the VAERS records are the little independent researchers.
It's only when we have the funding sources cut off from the outcomes that we'll get some real science in vaccine research.
@Linda – you are right about the honey thing – it is a gut flora issue.
That does not however change the fact that your statement about the infant immune system was incorrect.
http://www.vaxa.com/infant-immune-system.cfm
http://www.wellness.com/reference/allergies/newborn-immune-system
Martin Lugsdin …and poor little Linda….how much it must hurt your soul to shill for an industry that has been proven to lie, cover-up and invent results that are not verifiable in an honest environment…beyond the fact that you have "no-right" to stick my kid with any of your poison …the fact that you keep shilling for the government and the industry is embarrassing…if your vaccine technology was so great, there would be no need for a court to settle (out-of-the-spotlight) cases here the vaccine has caused harm…the fact that you have to rely on the authority of 7-9 old white men siting on a court…decades before the current technology has been or could be challenged…that is sign enough that you shit is weak…you want to deny the evidence that is right before your eyes, that in some cases, perhaps many, most or all cases…your science harms individuals and masses of people…you have no right to stick anyone who does not wish to be stuck with you needles …and your continued blithering on about the "science" doesn't mean a thing….for had your scientific predecessors had been more honest in the past we might have more faith in your ethics…you see, we know science isa good thing that helps us most of the time to improve our lives and society…but we also know that science lies and cheats at the same (or higher) rates as the general population…you just kill more folks when you lie. Oh, wait…remember "duck and cover"…that was some scientist telling us that if we ducked under our school-desks in an atomic attack, we would survive…and wait a minute….didn't science tell us that shoving Mercury into out teeth was a great thing to do? You are all either lying, shilling scum…or you are the most dense group of people I've listened to in a long time…I'll bet you all believe in the science of the 911 building collapses..eh?
Tara:
http://www.vaxa.com/infant-immune-system.cfm
http://www.wellness.com/reference/allergies/newborn-immune-system
These are not scientific websites, and have no references to support their claim of an undeveloped immune system until 6 months.
Now, for example:
http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/109/1/124.full
"Neonates develop the capacity to respond to foreign antigens before they are born. B and T cells are present by 14 weeks’ gestation and express an enormous array of antigen-specific receptors."
"Neonates are capable of generating both humoral and cellular immune responses to pathogens at the time of birth.8,9 Active immunity in the newborn includes the full range of B-cell responses including the production of IgM, IgG, and secretory and monomeric IgA, as well as the development of helper T-cell (Th) and cytotoxic T-cell responses.8,9 In addition, neonates can produce specific Th-cell subsets, including Th1-type cells that participate in cell-mediated immune responses and Th2-type cells that are primarily involved in promoting B-cell responses"
So your websites are incorrect; my statement was correct, and is supported by peer reviewed scientific data.
RJ
Pharma shill gambit? Is that the best you can come up with?
Please.
Btw; paragraphs are your friend, as is grammar and syntax.
Bullcrap. Infants need months and YEARS for the immune systems to fully develop, which is part of why children get sick so much and their parents don't.
Additionally, if you are correct about the benefits of vaccines, my not vaccinating my kids means that YOURS shouldn't be at any risk once they're vaccinated. So, inject all the poison into your children that you want. I will NOT.
So, you call peer reviewed science, 'bullcrap' and your websites, with no references, no studies, no nothing, 'factual'.
Your bias is showing.
…and you again neglect to consider the children who cannot be vaccinated, the ones who are too young to be vaccinated, etc, along with those few who don't seroconvert. They rely on the rest of the population for their protection against disease
Why is your 'right' any more important than 'theirs'?
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs204/en/
Even the WHO admits that more infants are killed by the Hep B vaccine administered AT BIRTH than by Hepatitis B.
And again, I have a woman who has older children, who also have immune disorders and cannot be immunized, who is more than willing to watch my children, should I have them. They won't come into contact with any other children until at least Preschool age other than casually, at the park, perhaps. Most of the other kids there will be vaccinated, so guess who will be at risk? MY kids, from the diseases being shed by the vaccinated kids, who are now able to give those strains of various viruses, including measles and chickenpox, to any unvaccinated kid who comes into contact with them.
So, in short order, you can truly F-off. Stop drinking the Kool Aid.
Wow, you really can't read what's written on the WHO website?
There is NOTHING on that page which says that 'infants are killed by the Hep B vaccine administered AT BIRTH" Are you not able to read what's actually printed, or does your confirmation bias cause you to interpret things that grossly wrong?
"They won't come into contact with any other children until at least preschool age, other than casually at…"
You do see the glaring irony there, right?
In one breath, you say "Oh, they'll never play with another kid…. unless we're at the park, etc." You do realize that the Hep B virus can live outside the body for a week?
(Hint: it's in the link you listed – "Unlike HIV, the hepatitis B virus can survive outside the body for at least seven days. During this time, the virus can still cause infection if it enters the body of a person who is not protected by the vaccine")
So even if they never see another child until they're a teenager – they can still contract Hep B if it's present somewhere where they are.
You really have no understanding of how these things are transmitted, do you?
For instance, your children (if you have them) are more likely to contract Hep B by playing on a playground than they are to contract pertussis from a recently vaccinated individual.
Why?
The pertussis vaccine CANNOT SHED. It is ACELLULAR. THere is NO BACTERIA in it. A vaccine cannot shed a bacteria it does not contain. The antigen present in the vaccine is NOT INFECTIOUS.
Let's consider the measles vaccine. It's attenuated – it is incapable of colonization of the host, and if it cannot colonize, it cannot spread. The ONLY exception to this would be in a severely immunocompromised individual who cannot mount an immune response (but these are folks that normally cannot be vaccinated anyway). So, you have a *theoretical* chance – but in reality a minuscule chance.
You can tell me to "F-off" all you want. I don't give two craps.
You're wrong. Your 'facts' are erroneous, your conclusions are laughable and you are, essentially, ignorant about biology and chemistry.
Have a nice morning.
Great blog! I shared it over at IR!
Thanks. But what is IR?
Infrared? (Sorry, don't mind me)
LOL. Sounds plausible.
Respectful Insolence. Science blog by Orac ;D
Oh, one of my favorites.