The Hate Debate of the anti vaccine cult

Recently, an anti vaccine cult member, who goes by the nom de plume of Megan, published a blog post called the Hate Debate, which was filled with all of the tropes, myths and outright misinformation of the anti vaccine cult. In other words, nothing new.

Except, she made this whiny, outrageous accusation:

[infobox icon=”quote-left”]I am sick of it – this vaccination debate. My convictions not to vaccinate have been firm for six years now and I was comfortable living a low-profile life and letting other more notable activists carry the torch; and then I started seeing misleading t.v. interviews, news stories, and backlash against parents and unvaccinated children.

I saw reputable medical professionals get crucified and reputations destroyed for questioning the mainstream norm. I saw laws passed in other states removing freedoms that rightfully belong to parents and individuals as a whole. I saw fear, blame, finger-pointing, lies, and flat out hate being propagated and encouraged by people, physicians, and popular media avenues towards parents who don’t vaccinate, and their children.[/infobox]

Setting aside the victimization complex that Megan is claiming, and the notable lack of any crucifixions of antivaccinationists on the news, there are a couple of  larger, more important points. First, there are no debates about vaccination. These debates are an invention of anti-science people which is similar to false debates in other fields of science, like climate change, GMOs, evolution, HIV/AIDS, and many other areas.

Fake science debates

 

There are people who claim there is a debate about evolution–there isn’t, it’s a scientific fact. There are people who debate whether HIV does not cause AIDS–it’s a scientific fact that HIV causes AIDS. There is a political debate about human caused climate change–but 97% of peer-reviewed papers on the subject provide a bastion of scientific consensus, that global warming is true and caused by humans. There are many, mostly on my side of the political aisle, who think that there’s a debate about the safety of GMOs–there isn’t, the scientific consensus strongly supports the fact that GMOs are completely safe.

These are all manufactured debates, where the foolish and easily manipulated press create a false-balance, by giving you a one-on-one debate between someone with a science background and someone who denies science. In reality, this debate should have several thousand scientists on one side, and one fool on the other. That would probably be a fascinating debate.

The same fake debate is a part of discussions about vaccines. Let’s be perfectly clear–vaccines are generally safe, as safe or safer than any other medical procedure known to mankind. You can break an arm, and have it set and casted by an emergency room physician. You might think that setting a fracture is a safe procedure, but occasionally bad things happen, like fat embolisms which can kill. Vaccines are one of the safest medical procedures I can imagine, and I’ve seen a lot of different procedures.

Scientific facts about vaccines

 

There has not been one death, with a direct causal link to vaccines, found since the 1980’s at least.

Vaccines do not cause autism. No. No.

In addition, vaccines are extremely effective. Smallpox is gone. Polio is just a few cases from being gone. Measles, mumps, diphtheria, whooping cough are disappearing, except in areas where parents aren’t vaccinating their children. My statements are based on the vast scientific consensus established by a long and deep tradition of peer-reviewed published articles. Short of cherry picking the tiny number of poorly written, highly-biased, low quality journal publications, there is nothing out there that can shift the consensus. Nothing.

But Megan, who has never picked up a petri dish and committed herself to real research, repeats one trope, one lie and one myth after another one. Orac picks apart her babbling one point after another, and as a bonus gives us a story about her ridiculous paranoid conspiracy theories. With all due respect to Yoda, Megan “powerful you think you have become, the Dunning-Kruger I sense in you.”

Wait, Shakespeare says it even better in As You Like It, “The Foole doth thinke he is wise, but the wiseman knowes himselfe to be a Foole.”

The anti vaccine cult Hate Debate

 

After quoting Yoda and Shakespeare, it’s time to move along to the more critical second point about which I want to make about this so-called Hate Debate. Who’s really doing the hate?

Let’s talk about Dorit Reiss, a frequent contributor to this blog. For those of you who don’t know her, Dr. Reiss is a Professor of Law at the University of California Hastings College of  the Law in San Francisco, CA. Dorit writes extensively in law journals about the social and legal policies of vaccination, so she’s about as much an expert on vaccine policy and law as you can find on the planet. Moreover, I count her as a friend, as much as one can be a friend through emails, messages, and discussing vaccines, and she is one of the calmest and coolest individuals in the pro-vaccine community. Her writing is dispassionately legal, and she has rarely (if ever?) lashed out at the vaccine deniers as I do.

But for some odd reason (and I can only speculate as to the reasoning), Dorit has become a target of the antivaccination lunatics, who seem to be in some competitive contest to layer one Argumentum Ad Hominem upon another regarding her. It’s laughable if it weren’t so creepy and scary, though rumor is that Dr. Reiss is actually also Lt. Dorit Rubinstein in the Israel Defense Forces. I don’t think much scares her.

I began to notice the personal attacks on Dorit with this website called UCHastingsTroll.com (a website that’s apparently long gone, given it’s hatefulness). It’s a creative website name, because if you’re trying to go to the real website of the University of California Hastings, the prestigious university at which Dr. Reiss is a faculty member, you might end up at that hate site.

The author of the website is a well-known antivaccine internet bully, who seems to have a wild imagination about conspiracies, wrote the following on the attack website:

[infobox icon=”quote-left”]Many of Dorit’s comments appear to be coming from a personality that is disoriented and confused, and her comments make no sense at all. I definitely would not even allow her to teach my dog!

At other times, Dorit Reiss appears even more disoriented, blaming and accusing grieving parents, who are trying to find closure and support with other families of deceased and injured children through the Katie Couric Show, for doing it in public, because it’s hurting MERCK’s profits. She now says that she no longer needs medical records from these grieving parents, and, as spokesperson for UCHastings School of the Law, arrogantly states that the parents are defensive and wrong.

UCHastings School of the Law Professor Dorit Reiss then demanded that these grieving parents, who faithfully vaccinated their children who all acquired virtually the same core set of symptoms, “explain to us what is the medical evidence that shows that your child’s harm is due to the vaccine”.[/infobox]

There really isn’t any way to respond to these comments except to think that the person, who is disoriented and confused, might instead be the author. And once again, the medical evidence for the safety and effectiveness of vaccines is beyond any reasonable level of criticism. Let me highlight the word reasonable. But UCHastingsTroll was just a minor attack.

The irresponsible and ignorant website, Age of Autism, that fronts for the antivaccine lunatic fringe, recently published a screed against Dr. Reiss written by Christina Waldman, who, according to Martindale (a guide to trial lawyers in the USA), works in a one-person law firm that specializes in Social Security Disability cases in Rochester, NY. So what we have here is one attorney filling out forms for Social Security Disability claimants and receiving a set fee for each case she wins vs. an faculty member in law in one of the top law schools in the country. This may not be a fair fight.

The goal of Waldman’s tedious article was a sort of open letter to Cornell University to either criticize or block the publication of an article by Dr. Reiss in the Cornell Journal of Law and Public Policy, a rather highly respected journal. Dr. Reiss’ article, “Compensating the Victims of Failure to Vaccinate:   What are the Options?”, was addressed here previously. Apparently, Waldman’s letter had little effect since Cornell did publish Dr. Reiss’ article with no comment as far as I can tell.

Of course, Waldman’s letter was really confusing. Since I’m convinced that Waldman is a real lawyer with real credentials, it is shocking that a real attorney could author such a poorly written and disorganized letter. And let’s not even get into the utter lack of logical flow.

At the start, without commentary, Waldman lists a bunch of hate attack links on Dr. Reiss, most referring back to Age of Autism itself (don’t be confused, Age of Autism doesn’t actually care about autistic children, just whining about vaccines). They all kind of complain about Dr. Reiss advocating that there might be legal recourse for parents whose children are harmed by unvaccinated children. Well, if you’re going to attack Dr. Reiss, don’t forget to go after Law and Order: Special Victims Unit–they arrested and tried a crazy antivaccination parent.

Waldman continues with several cherry picked comments from Dr. Reiss (who comments frequently on many news articles on the internet, always in a professional, logical manner). I actually can’t make heads or tails of what Waldman is trying to prove by referring to some of these comments, except to create some conspiracy theory between Merck and other pharmaceutical companies, Kaiser-Permanente (one of the highest rated managed care organizations in the USA or the world, and who has one of the best anonymized medical records database for epidemiological studies), Dr. Reiss’ employer, UC Hastings, and Dr. Reiss herself.

Apparently, because Dr. Reiss denies taking money from Big Pharma, and Waldman can invent out of the thin air some laughable conspiracy, in Waldman’s mind, Dr. Reiss is lying. Or something. I’m pretty smart, and I’ve asked others to read Waldman’s diatribe, and we all have come to the same conclusion. Huh?

Now, I cannot completely dismiss Waldman before I respond to something she wrote:

 

[infobox icon=”quote-left”]One of several pro-vaccination Facebook groups to which Prof. Reiss belongs is called the “Anti-Vax Wall of Shame (AVWOS).”  It is a group that likes to make fun of “Anti-Vaxers,” as those who express concerns about vaccines have been labelled. Note the “Files” on the AVWOS wall which enable group members to follow “anti-vaccination” comments on the web. Note the derogatory and disrespectful way in which persons holding different beliefs on vaccine safety are described  (It used to be worse; they’ve cleaned it up in the past few months.

Much of the language from the old, pinned welcoming rant is too crude to print; here is one of the more tame examples:  “….We give no quarter to the douchbaggery brought by the anti-vaxxers.  There is no length that we will not go to show their stupidity, their arrogance, their ignorance, and their hatred of children….” This is the crowd with which Prof. Reiss associates online, a crowd comfortable with “hate speech” when it comes to those awful “anti-vaxxers.”  (Facebook, Anti-Vax Wall of Shame, as it appeared in December 2013.). Many who take the time to research vaccine safety concerns and post about them on the internet are parents of vaccine-injured children.

Intriguingly, several members of this “esteemed and exclusive crowd,” in Michael Simpson’s (sic) words, are among the people Prof. Reiss thanked in her acknowledgments to this article: the Skeptical Raptor blog to which Prof. Reiss refers readers often, affiliated with Kaiser Permanente; Allison Hagood, Facebook page administrator of AVWOS, Carolyn Bursle, Queensland pediatrician; Paul Offit, Merck vaccine inventor and pro-vaccine spokesperson, recently an advocate of putting journalists in jail who do not toe his line (David Kroll, “Dr. Paul Offit:  ‘Journalism Jail’ For Faulty Medical Reporting,” 3/29/14, Forbes online.).  Paul Offit is on the Scientific Advisory Board for Voices for Vaccines; Stacy Hillenburg, on the Voices for Vaccines Parent Advisory Board with Prof. Reiss; ; Will Robertson; Rene Najera; and Maggie Howell (Note:  membership of Voices for Vaccines Facebook page is no longer open information, as it was in March 2014.).[/infobox]

Yes, AVWOS’ most important goal is to mock, ridicule and generally snark at some of the dumbest stuff written by antivaccination cultists across the world. And yeah, AVWOS does enjoy showing off the antivaccinationist’s stupidity, arrogance, ignorance and, let me be blunt, hatred of children. I mean why else would you deny a child a vaccine unless you don’t want them to live long? In the 1700’s, right at the advent of the first vaccines, 75% of children died before they turned five (Health, Wealth and Population in the Early Days of the Industrial Revolution (Economic History).

This isn’t “hate speech,” it is merely the conclusion one can make about individuals who consciously ignore the vast wealth of vaccine research to push an agenda that could lead to the return of diseases that we thought were historical. Of course, the only group that will get rich off of the loss of vaccines are Big Pharma, who will make so much cash from providing the products to treat vaccine preventable diseases, that I still wonder if most antivaccine whiners are actually being compensated by Big Pharma.

I hardly ever comment on what I do or don’t do in life, but let me be frank. I do not work for Kaiser Permanente. You see, Waldman worked so hard to create some crazy link between XYZ and Dr. Reiss, a random neuron must have fired off, and the good name of Skeptical Raptor was associated with the great name of Kaiser Permanente.

But the Age of Not Really Caring About Autism (once again, they’re really just an anti vaccine cult front organization) continues with other ridiculous hate words, written by one David Foster, an “engineer” (not a scientist) without one tiny bit of formal academic work in legal issues, let alone vaccines and real science. That he starts his ad hominem hate speech with “Dorit Reiss has a history of glossing over vaccine safety issues” is laughable and shows some serious Dunning Kruger effect in his simplistic brain.

The irony here is that Prof. Reiss is more supportive of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) than many of her supporters (myself included, who wishes that the NVICP went away, and all lawsuits banned summarily without scientific evidence, but I can be tough). I daresay that Foster, who as a reminder is just an engineer, some dude who probably can write computer code on a good day, when he’s not lying on the Age of Lying About Autism, wouldn’t understand that the legal standards for the NVICP are relaxed which has the consequence of allowing “victories” for some families whose cases are not really supported by scientific causality. But that’s what you get when you allow some “engineer” to write a law article.

But let’s not stop there with anti-Reiss hatred. Take a look at a few posts about Prof. Reiss in Facebook recently.

Anti-semitism, Part 1. You can't say "Nazi" and "Israel" (Dr. Reiss' country of origin) together without being anti-semitic.
Anti-semitism, Part 1. You can’t say “Nazi” and “Israel” (Dr. Reiss’ country of origin) together without being anti-semitic.
Anti-semitism 2. No you cannot compare the Holocaust, which killed 6 million Jews, to vaccination and say this to a Jew. That's anti-Semitism.
Anti-semitism 2. No you cannot compare the Holocaust, which killed 6 million Jews, to vaccination and say this to a Jew. That’s anti-Semitism.
Anti-semitism 3. No, saying "Dorito Jew" is racist and anti-Semitic. You cannot state that vaccines come from concentration camps when they didn't. And the only "aborted nazi rape baby" (???) is in the racist mind of the writer.
Anti-semitism 3. No, saying “Dorito Jew” is racist and anti-Semitic. You cannot state that vaccines come from concentration camps when they didn’t. And the only “aborted nazi rape baby” (???) is in the racist mind of the writer.

 

Updates

 

After this article was originally posted in April 2014, ThePoxesBlog posted another article describing three threatening phone calls from anonymous individuals. The first one stated that, “I am tired of your wife harassing people about their vaccine status. It is none of her business. If I hear or see of anything written by your wife after today, I will release your phone number, your work phone number.” It isn’t all that hard to find people’s phone numbers, and they can be easily changed these days. 

The second call stated that “like I said to your husband, I have all of your information. Stop it now. I mean it, or else it becomes public information. Got it? Good.” Creepy.

The third call seems to indicate that the caller is truly unhinged, “You and your wife are evil. Just evil. How dare she go after parents of vaccine injured children. Read a fucking package insert. It says right there all the freaking side…” 

These attacks by phone added to the attacks on the internet appear to be a concerted effort by individuals who are racists, hate-mongers and anti-Semitic creeps. Some of it leads right back to the Age of Autism (they don’t care about autism), which has published several hate-filled rambling rants about Dr. Reiss over the past few months.

Conclusions

 

Let’s be clear what really constitutes hate speech. It’s generally a verbal attack (orally or written) on a protected group to incite harm through violence or prejudice. Vaccine deniers are not a protected group, and frankly, they would have a terribly difficult time trying to convince a real court that their anti-scientific beliefs, based on absolutely nothing, should become a protected group.

If that happens, the Flat-Earthers will want to be a protected group. But more than that, Dr. Reiss (or this website) has never attempted to incite violence, unless having people arrested or sued for harming children is an incitement for harm. That would take a amusing and scary change in criminal law to consider that change.

If there’s any “hate speech” going on here, it’s against Dr. Reiss. Anti-Semitism (and for those of you who don’t know, it’s just a form of racism) is hate speech. Crazy ad hominem attacks in attempts to damage her reputation professionally is hate speech. Pretending to be the victim, like these antivaccine types keep doing, may not be hate speech, but it’s pathetic and ignorant. Dorit Reiss can stand up for herself, so I’m not here to defend her. I’m here to point out the obvious and disgusting hypocrisy of the vast swath of the antivaccine movement that actually does engage in dangerous and harmful hate speech. They aren’t making fun of Dr. Reiss’ point of view, they are viciously attacking her, her employer, and her ethnicity. That’s offensive.

The anti vaccine cult whines, and whines loudly, that they’re being bullied, harassed and subject to some odd mutation of hate speech. But let’s be honest here. The pro-vaccine side (as if there are sides) is based on the truth, as supported by the vast mountains of evidence.

And repeating that truth, even in a mocking or derogatory way, is hardly hate speech. It’s making fun of people who have crazy ideas who actually have a serious problem–they want children to catch vaccine preventable diseases.

Editor’s note: This article was originally published in April 2014. It has been completely revised and updated to include more comprehensive information, to improve readability and to add current research.

Key citations:

 

The Original Skeptical Raptor
Chief Executive Officer at SkepticalRaptor

Lifetime lover of science, especially biomedical research. Spent years in academics, business development, research, and traveling the world shilling for Big Pharma. I love sports, mostly college basketball and football, hockey, and baseball. I enjoy great food and intelligent conversation. And a delicious morning coffee!


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  • life5678

    Such a long article to prove nothing. It would have been easier to simply say “The author is clueless”.

  • Sia

    Not even true of the anti-vax wall of shame:

    The plural of anecdote is not data, of course but this is what I’ve seen

    From what I’ve seen, they are more than willing to talk to people who have concerns about vaccines. They generally try about three times before mocking somebody.

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  • Proponent

    Re: Hate Debate and the website’s author; Megan.

    It would appear that Megan has scrubbed the references to her ‘hubs’ having been in the forces.. and this on the note of her having stated that ‘her family does not vaccinate’.

    ‘Cause..

    When Megan first blipped the blogosphere radar with her nonsensical rebuttal of Dear parents, you are being lied to.. got to poking around her site, the About stuff and the like.

    And she had clearly mentioned her ‘hubs’ service.

    I am sure I wasn’t the only one to bring the matter up in related online discussions.. as to.. how her ‘hubs’ had avoided military protocols on vaccinations. No responses.. and now, reiterating once more.. the service references have been scrubbed from sight.

    … …

    Damn.. I’ve been reading too many anti-vaxxer posts.. starting to formulate conspiracies and see shadowy figures in me own pea brain.

    … …

    Found it..

    From the above linked page;

    “My better-half holds a biology
    degree, chemistry minor, is a Family Practice Physician, and is a
    Captain in the United States Air Force.”

    “We do not vaccinate.”

    The above is contradicted by Air Force policy as laid out in the following:

    “Influenza Immunization Program Air Force Medical Support Agency”

    “Vaccination of all military members should be completed within one month of receipt of sufficient vaccine supplies.
    The goal for vaccination coverage is ‘greater than’ 90% of all service members immunized by Dec 16, 2013.”

    (Source: http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/1669_Air_Force_Influenza_Plan_2013-14.pdf )

    Yep.. it was scrubbed.

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  • Hand N. Yell

    Respected vaccine science researchers detail their science-based concerns:

    Huffington Post: “Why the Press Shouldn’t Dismiss Vaccine Skeptics”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/vaccine-skeptics_b_4548510.html

  • BarbaraZabadu

    If anyone needs any proof that we need firm laws requiring people to vaccinate, read below. That’s how they all think, and they’re putting their children and ours in danger. I tried to post for two days over at the “Hate Debate” website, and while she would let folks post about “vaccine shedding”, she would not post any of my opposing notes or studies. They don’t want to know. They want to be special, even if their children die.

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    • sabelmouse

      lol!

      • kellymbray

        What is so funny sabelmoron? Were you one the callers who left threatening messages?

    • sabelmouse

      she is really good. quite convincing because her comments seem reasonable and they are polite. i sure hope she gets paid more than those who just spam a thread with insults.

      • Mike Stevens

        Her comments are always reasonable, and she is polite.
        She has repeatedly stated she is not paid to comment.
        Are you paid by an antivax organisation to post here, mouse?

        • It’s a much better story for the deniers to claim that Dorit is a paid shill.

      • kellymbray

        Who pays you to be clueless?

    • How about the vaccine connected murder of young woman, and now boys, (no responsibility taken); and now as well there are thousands left with vaccine injury and un-recovered from neurological based outcomes? Does that concern you at all? Actually this vaccine Gardasil is the poster vaccine as to the proof that vaccines are NOT adequately safety tested. The evidence of that fact, they continue to sweep under the rug at both the CDC and FDA. Vaccine contamination is as well one of the most significant and unresolved issues which the CDC is clearly facing. How much liability would they facing at the CDC and with major loss of credibility, if they were to have handled this issue honestly and responsibly?

      Tens of Thousands of Adverse Reactions to this Popular Vaccine Being Labelled “A Coincidence”
      http://thefreethoughtproject.com/tens-thousands-adverse-reactions-popular-vaccine-labelled-a-coincidence/

      HPV vaccine linked to deaths

      A 2012 study published in the journal Pharmaceutical Regulatory Affairs concludes that viral components contained in the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine Gardasil can cross the blood-brain barrier and trigger cerebral vasculitis, a severe form of blood vessel inflammation in the brain that can lead to severe autoimmune disorders and even death.

      A postmortem assessment of two young girls from opposite ends of the world who died recently after being given the Gardasil vaccine revealed fragments of the HPV-16L1 antigen (which is added to both Gardasil from Merck & Co. and Cervarix from GlaxoSmithKline) inside the girls’ brain tissue. According to the researchers, these particles represent a genetic fingerprint of the Gardasil vaccine. Thus Gardasil may well cause serious, adverse events in at least some of the girls that receive it.

      For their research, Dr. Chris Shaw from the University of British Columbia (UBC) in Canada and Dr. Lucija Tomljenovic from the Neural Dynamics Research Group in Vancouver examined samples of brain tissue taken from both girls, one 19 years old and the other 14 years old. Their analysis focused specifically on the potential presence of both HPV-16L1 and HPV-18L1, two specific antigens used in HPV vaccines.

      Much to their surprise, the researchers observed that HPV-16L1 had bound itself to the walls of cerebral blood vessels in both of the girls’ brains. They also found inflammation and immune response to these particles. Clearly the viral components of Gardasil had crossed the blood-brain barrier and provoked a serious reaction.
      “Our IHC (immunohistochemistry) analysis showed evidence of an autoimmune vasculitis potentially triggered by the cross-reactive HPV-16L1 antibodies binding to the wall of cerebral blood vessels in all examined brain samples,” says the study. “Our study suggests that HPV vaccines containing HPV-16L1 antigens pose an inherent risk for triggering potentially fatal autoimmune vasculopathies.”

      According to the vaccine awareness group SaneVax, this is the first time a vaccine has been directly linked to a serious, adverse event. Gardasil to date has been linked to at least 27,485 adverse events, and at least 121 deaths.

      “For the average medical consumer, this evidence suggests that the antibodies produced in response to vaccination with the HPV-16L1 may cause one’s immune system to attack its own blood vessels,” wrote Norma Erickson, President of SaneVax, in a recent announcement about the study. “Given that the autopsy in both cases revealed no major abnormality (anatomically, microbiologically or toxicologically) that might have been regarded as a potential cause of death, it appears plausible that the antigenic component of the HPV vaccine (HPV-16L1) was indeed responsible for the fatal inflammation of the blood vessels.”

      http://www.junkscience.co.uk/tag/dr-chris-shaw/

      Gardasil: New Study Brings More Safety Questions to Light
      http://sanevax.org/gardasil-new-study-brings-more-safety-questions-to-light/

      Death after Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccination: Causal or Coincidental?

      Conclusions: Our study suggests that HPV vaccines containing HPV-16L1 antigens pose an inherent risk for
      triggering potentially fatal autoimmune vasculopathies.

      http://www.rescuepost.com/files/ltshaw-death-after-quadrivalent-hpv-vaccination-pharma-reg-affairs-2012.pdf

      • LOWELL! My non-science educated friend! How good to see you! I see you’re still posting long debunked links, you rapscallion.

        How can you not get bored with being wrong all the time?

        • Well now; instead of just providing false claims, distraction, and harassment; get to providing some evidence and proof for your said claims? Prove to me and show evidence for that the information above has been so called, debunked!

          Just because the FDA and CDC have to much to lose, and repeatedly fail to recognize and admit to the obvious common links and findings in VAERS; does not make anything debunked.

          Just because Merck funds studies such as the one they did at Kaiser Permanente in CA; were through HMO’s etc; they claimed to have looked through 1000’s of files and still found no common links and common occurrences as to those who received Gardasil; does not mean that anything has been debunked. Although they clearly and obviously exist; no common findings are ever found as to the deaths and now thousands of un-recovered from neurological outcomes. It is literally preposterous. They are conditions known as new medical conditions, in those young women, and as well now boys. The independent information, data, and study science show an entirely a different finding and outcome for such as Gardasil; and that is what really matters.

          Anyone can type a of bunch of complete bullshit on a keyboard R.w. Get to providing proof of your claims..

          • I could post more links to studies showing my point, but without a background in science, you would not understand them, so I’d be wasting my time.

            Do yourself a huge favor: Drop out of Google U, burn your diploma from Wale.to Community College, and your certificates from Natural News, and Mercola online courses, and enroll in, I don’t know, UCLA, or even University of Maryland, and get some real science classes. When you can tell me which of these antibody chains (IgA, IgG, IgM, IgE, or IgD) is the first to respond to an antigen, then we can begin our conversation. Until that time, you’re not helping your case.

            • Post more links? You? You don’t even have any links here? Actually the science is all on my side and nothing much exists on your side; if you were ever to actually face the reality of it, R.w.

              I know about all of that as well, and likely as much or more than you do, because I have environmental allergies and studied the different Ig complexes already years ago. There is as well a lot and far more to an immune response to an antigen than just Ig complexes. In fact it immunity has very little to do with Ig complexes and that in fact is an unscientific and ridiculous question. It as well actually has little to do with the issue of the safety nor effectiveness of vaccines.

            • It’s a basic biology question, silly. Since you did not get that, it proves my point. And, you’re right. I’ve not posted any links here. Because I posted them on another Raptor post that you commented on.

              Alright. The antigen question may have been a little tricky. Try this one: The ability of several different cytokines to exert a similar activity is called a ______.
              A) redundancy
              B) transmembrane alteration
              C) pleiotropy
              D) additivity
              E) synergism

              Last thing: An antigen is any substance that can stimulate the production of antibodies and combine specifically with them.

            • Oh quite obviously I got it entirely what you were after. You were creating a distraction and a diversion away from the actual subject matter of proven and proving vaccine safety and effectiveness. You were as well trying to create false discreditation where there were none. And why? Because you could produce nothing else for evidence of vaccine safety and effectiveness.

              You were asking a question that was redundant in itself and as well as irrelevant to the issues of proven vaccine safety and effectiveness. You are attempting to make me look like an uneducated dumb ass through your own foolishness, and in the process proving your own obvious ineptitude and failure to actually get it.

              Here is a basic written answer to the question. And your point, is?

              Antibodies (or Immunoglobins)

              The B-lymphocyte cells of the immune system produce antibodies called immunoglobulins. These antibodies are designed to react against specific antigens (or foreign molecules) introduced into the system by various types of microorganisms. Antibodies react against microorganisms (viruses, yeast, parasites, and bacteria) and allow them to be killed by the white blood cells. Composed mostly of amino acids, antibodies are proteins that are divided into five major antibody classes (IgM, IgG, IgE, IgA, IgD). Each antibody class has a unique chemical structure and a specific function. IgG stands for immunoglobulin G or antibody G and so forth. Each class contains thousands of different antibodies to different microorganisms, foods, and chemicals.

              http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/immunedeficiencies.asp​

            • *applauds* Congratulations. Your copying & pasting techniques are superb. Slight problem, though: That does not answer either of my questions. This proves my actual demonstration of showing you don’t know what you’re talking about. Not only that, but you’re linking to things you don’t understand.

              Here’s something you can copy and past in your next reply:

              “Professor Reiss, Dr. Simpson, Mr. Foster, and to all readers of Skeptical Raptor: I humbly apologize for wasting your time, trying to say potentially harmful things like “Vaccines are dangerous,” when I clearly do not know what I was talking about. I was suckered by the people at various anti-vax sites because it sounded like they knew what they were talking about. However, to show that I am deeply sorry for any harm I may have caused, I am going to an actual college, or university, and am going to dedicate myself to learning immunology so that I may help where I have harmed. – sincerely, Lowell Hubbs.”

              That should help things. Especially if you’re sincerely going to do that.

            • So, even after all that, you still can not form even as much as a specific claim here and nor a simple and relevant question in regard to the issue of vaccine safety and effectiveness. Even after all that twisted whoop tee do, you have nothing. You have nothing but your illusions and delusions of vaccine grandeur. You are simply and clearly out of your mind.

              Here is a statement you need to make. I, R.w. Foster, deeply apologize for my refusal to see and accept the real science and data regarding vaccines. I apologize as well for my efforts and complicity in the vaccine injury harm cover-up that has now destroyed the health, minds, and the lives of so many and literally thousands of infants, children, teens, and adults. I as well apologize for my refusal to accept the real data on the actually effectiveness (which amounts to actual ineffectiveness) of vaccines, and that as well throughout history. I fully admit that vaccines did not eradicate polio and nor small pox, and that any such presumption was preposterous. The CDC, FDA, and the WHO have all been partners in the unwitting and for the most part deliberately dishonest cover-up of the true reality of vaccines and in regard to true health care. Vaccines have been and have become even more of a complete failure in recent years; and we all needed to admit long ago that we needed to find a better way. I now fully understand the concept of doing far more harm than good, and in regard to real health care, and vaccines were and have been doing that all along. Sincerely, R.w. Foster

            • (sigh) You poor man. Did the doctors forget to give you your meds again? I can see they weren’t watching, and allowed you access to the internet.

              Paging Dr. Simpson: Your patient has escaped his room again. Dr. Simpson?

            • You poor and twisted man, R.w. Did you actually think there was some way to stop me from putting the vaccine truth in front of you. So you would like to request a drugged censoring of the facts and reality that you obviously can not deal with nor handle. That’s what you want for anyone that does not tow the pro-vax denialism party line. That’s absolutely classic.

              By the way I do no meds and never will. You can keep any of your for profit poison.

            • We can tell.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “You poor and twisted man”

              This is a good example of not being professional. In fact you’re among the least professional people I know.

              “So you would like to request a drugged censoring of the facts”

              What censoring? In fact the only censor bunny here Lowell is you. Any comment you disagree with you mark as spam and even though you know this will eventually get you IP banned you continue to do it.

              “facts and reality that you obviously can not deal with nor handle”

              This again would be YOU Lowell. You’re a brain damaged alcoholic who makes the claim you drank all day yet it wasn’t possible for you to have a .138% BAC though it was verified by a breathalizer AND blood draw that you were FUCKING Drunk. Instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you created an elaborate conspiracy in your mind. When pressed for evidence of this conspiracy you refuse to name the “high level” investigator. And somewhere in here is an assassination attempt too.

              You literally don’t live in reality.

              “By the way I do no meds and never will.”

              See, great example of denial. You were on Xanax and Paxil and even got a DUI while on Paxil. You were shoplifting on Paxil, you stole a bike on Paxil. You even got a class action award from the makers of Paxil because it was addictive.

              This is what it’s like dealing with a brain damaged alcoholic. You will deny anything. I guess I could be somewhat empathetic. I use to claim I didn’t drink Diet Pepsi even though I would drink it at my brothers. I eventually swore off Diet Pepsi. Fortunately this is nothing like being an alcoholic.

            • o.o Holy crap. Is this true?! I was trolling a little there with my claims…

              I almost feel bad.

              Almost

            • Matt Zukowski

              All true! The poor attempts at censoring which included me chatting up FB saying that Lowell is a butthurt brain damaged alcoholic and they agreed I wasn’t harassing him. He has this bizarre conspiracy about a rich man who doesn’t like him who bribed a cop and 6 other people (story changes). The cop is nameless, so is the rich guy. He was given Paxil and Xanax to address depression after his 2nd DUI IIRC and he blames the drug for shoplifting and stealing a bike. And it’s all a conspiracy.

              Lowell truly doesn’t have the acumen to be trailer trash.

            • Damn. Oh well. You know what? It still doesn’t excuse his willful stupidity.

              People like him piss me off to no end because his rantings seem slightly lucid to parents who are doing their damnedest not to screw up, and are a little worried about science. It’s bad enough when the fecking media broadcast their bullshit, trying to create a balance where their is none, and idiots like LH come along, and scare them into not vaccinating.

            • Oh, its more than lucid, as my information contains all the real data and he actually independent science that across the board puts forth the direct truth in regard to vaccines. That is what actually pisses you off, R.w. And in the fact that there has been nothing you could do nor put forth to stop me.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “my information contains all the real data”

              No it doesn’t Lowell. Linda was nice enough to cite actual numbers in terms of measles morbidity. This would be real data. But you don’t cite real data at all. You blather on about how everything is sick and twisted and how that’s somehow the wrong data but YOU NEVER PROVIDE THE RIGHT DATA.

              “And in the fact that there has been nothing you could do nor put forth to stop me.”

              Says the censor bunny whose butthurt they’re false flagging has done squat.

              And it’s interesting because who would want to stop you? You look like a meth head, you come across like a moron, and you demonstrate how the antivax position is largely occupied by people from the land of the not quite right.

            • You missed the scheduled time of your latest dose of your meds. In addition to your incoherent ramblings, your grammar and spelling are slipping.

            • Really?

              The Legacy of Vaccine Injury – Dr. Andrew Wakefield (a complete expose on as well the issue regarding the lack of vacine safety and effectiveness in general. This is one of the best vaccine truth exposes, ever.)

              http://www.autismone.org/content/legacy-vaccine-injury-dr-andrew-wakefield

              Dr Andrew Wakefield Defends His Research

              Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s rebuttal to Brian Deer’s article in the BMJ (British Medical Journal)

              Research References
              http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

              New Published Study Verifies Andrew Wakefield’s Research on Autism – Again (MMR Vaccine Causes Autism)
              http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/06/21/new-published-study-verifies-andrew-wakefields-research-on-autism-again-mmr-vaccine-causes-autism/

              The Current Failure of Pertussis and Measles Vaccine
              http://antivaccine.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine/

              VACCINE SAFETY CONFERENCE OUTLINES RESEARCH GAPS
              http://www.vaccinesafetyconference.com/

              SPEAKERS
              http://www.vaccinesafetyconference.com/speakers.html

              PRESENTATIONS
              http://www.vaccinesafetyconference.com/presentation.html

            • First (I really need to get this out there): ANDREW WAKEFIELD IS NOT A FUCKING DOCTOR!! He was stripped of his license for his damned lies.

              Second: He lied because he was wanting to profit off his own vaccine. Why don’t you goddamned fucktards get that through your heads? He. Wanted. To. Sell. His. Own. Fucking. VACCINE! Dumbass.

              Third: He fucking lied!

              Fourth: You imbeciles crack me up as you piss me off. You buy his, “Vaccines are dangerous,” bullshit, but ignore his, “Except for the one I want to sell you.”

              Fifth: Vaccines are safe.

              And, since you monkeys only seem to buy into stuff when it’s repeated over, and over, and over, and over:

              Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.

            • Guest

              And WHAT do YOU personally have and stand to lose if he didn’t lie? And or the people around you and/or that you are connected to?

              Wakefield obviously didn’t lie and it is not even about Wakefield anymore, as it has progressed far beyond that single study. The evidence that there were no lies involved and that it was all only a fabricated attack on him, are simply beyond all to obvious and evident. You simply refuse the evidence of the truth information that is right in front of you.

              The Question That Brian Deer and Dorit Reiss Cannot Answer
              http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/05/the-question-that-brian-deer-and-dorit-reiss-cannot-answer.html

              Why Medical Authorities Went to Such Extremes to Silence Dr. Andrew Wakefield. (Why are So Many Important Safety Studies Being Ignored?)
              http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/10/wakefield-interview.aspx

              Selective Hearing: Brian Deer and the GMC
              http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/selective-hearing-brian-deer-and-the-gmc/

              Banned Wakefield Films From British TV Emerge on Youtube After Nearly a Decade
              http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/02/banned-wakefield-films-from-british-tv-emerge-on-youtube-after-nearly-a-decade.html

              Hear The Silence (2003) Dr Andrew Wakefield Drama

              General further articles
              http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/

              WOULD AND SHOULD YOU TRUST A HEATH CARE SYSTEM, LIKE THIS???
              http://antivaccine.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/would-and-should-you-trust-a-heath-care-system-like-this/

              How Vaccines Dysregulate The Immune System
              http://antivaccine.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/how-vaccines-dysregulate-the-immune-system/

              The Current Failure of Pertussis and Measles Vaccine
              http://antivaccine.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine/

            • What is taking place with the doubling up of these comments??? This is not first site this has been happening on.

            • Matt Zukowski

              You’re a brain damaged alcoholic. No one else has this issue. All I’m doing is and hitting the post as button. If you can’t figure this out your mentally challenged.

            • No such thing took place. And actually we can see here exactly who is mentally defective and incompetent, and who clearly is not able to debate this issue rationally and nor with even as much as basic common sense and honesty. That is all to obvious; and that is your doing, not mine.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “No such thing took place”

              But you just said it did. There is you posting as yourself and posting as guest.

              “And actually we can see here exactly who is mentally defective”

              Yeah, the person that fucks up pressing post as.

              ” basic common sense and honesty. ”

              Still would be you Lowell, the man who claims to have “taken” what “looked like” an abandoned bike. The problem is being in your 40s you should have known better. A reasonable adult would have contacted the police to report a lost bike. But not you because YOU lack basic common sense and honesty. You had 4 bikes stolen, saw one that was easy to steal, and stole it.

              “and that is your doing, not mine.”

              Says the brain damaged alcoholic repeating other people’s criticism out of context so it doesn’t make sense. You drank your brain to oblivion. You see assassins, complex police conspiracies, and all sorts of crazy shit. And rather than accept YOUR fucked in the head you accuse others of your own crimes.

            • Anyone can see here that you are quite obviously the person who is entirely crazed and mentally deranged.

              You have zero evidence for the claims you make and nor in regard to the present day and time; and the rest you just simply make it up as you go and twist it into something it never was. Any issue as well from nearly 12 years ago holds no relevance to subject topic of vaccines and nor does it provide you with any basis to claim lack of credibility and nor in the year 20014. Anyone as obviously obsessed with one person and as entirely twisted and crazed as you are, has simply and clearly lost all credibility yourself, right out of the front gate. All you are doing is repeatedly attempting to produce harassment and repeat distractions in the attempt to silence the truth information on vaccines that you know I have and do continue to put forth. That takes some real sickness and desperation if you ask me.

            • Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.

            • And WHAT do YOU personally have and stand to lose if he didn’t lie? And or the people around you and/or that you are connected to?

              Wakefield obviously didn’t lie and it is not even about Wakefield anymore, as it has progressed far beyond that single study. The evidence that there were no lies involved and that it was all only a fabricated attack on him, are simply beyond all to obvious and evident. You simply refuse the evidence of the truth information that is right in front of you.

              The Question That Brian Deer and Dorit Reiss Cannot Answer
              http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/05/the-question-that-brian-deer-and-dorit-reiss-cannot-answer.html

              Why Medical Authorities Went to Such Extremes to Silence Dr. Andrew Wakefield. (Why are So Many Important Safety Studies Being Ignored?)
              http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/10/wakefield-interview.aspx

              Selective Hearing: Brian Deer and the GMC
              http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/selective-hearing-brian-deer-and-the-gmc/

              Banned Wakefield Films From British TV Emerge on Youtube After Nearly a Decade
              http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/02/banned-wakefield-films-from-british-tv-emerge-on-youtube-after-nearly-a-decade.html

              Hear The Silence (2003) Dr Andrew Wakefield Drama

              General further articles
              http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/

              WOULD AND SHOULD YOU TRUST A HEATH CARE SYSTEM, LIKE THIS???
              http://antivaccine.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/would-and-should-you-trust-a-heath-care-system-like-this/

              How Vaccines Dysregulate The Immune System
              http://antivaccine.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/how-vaccines-dysregulate-the-immune-system/

              The Current Failure of Pertussis and Measles Vaccine
              http://antivaccine.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine/

            • Matt Zukowski

              “And WHAT do YOU personally have and stand to lose if he didn’t lie?”

              Is a conspiracy man. The assassination attempt, your 4th DUI, and anyone who points out Wakefield is a liar.

              “Wakefield obviously didn’t lie”

              Except he totally did. In his Lancet publication he didn’t find an elevated risk of ASD in the children he tested with vaccination but was quoted as waying he did. This would be a LIE. He took money from lawyers AND claimed he was doing independent research and took money from the government. This would be a lie.

              “it is not even about Wakefield anymore,”

              Yet not two hours ago you cited Wakefield, who we know lied. This is the problem about being an alcoholic. You have no memory.

            • Holy shit. You actually went and created a “guest” Disqus account just to say the same damned thing to me? Wow. That’s dedication.

              Just for future attempts, if you’re gonna do that, create different content for the comment. Now, back to our regularly scheduled repetition:

              Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines are safe.Vaccines work. Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.Vaccines work.

            • roscoe

              You are so Stupid if you believe Wakefield was innocent and framed. So stupi.

            • jeffliveson

              are you drunk right now?

            • That’s funny. The only story that repeatedly changes here is your own. What kind of a person would you see now 11 years after your crazed and twisted description of that? You would see a man who is totally focused on a mission that you definitely don’t like. A man that is very well versed in the subject matter, and with 1000’s of hours research time behind him; and kicking your butt right and left with the entire truth as to the vaccine issues. If you were actually honest and could shake yourself out of your delusional state of mind, you would have to admit that. Entirely healthy and 11 years drug free, (as to any kind); and with a vengeance exposing the pharmaceutical truths. All in all your story Zukowski, and as to reality, surely appears to be beyond more than just a little twisted.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “The only story that repeatedly changes here is your own”

              No, that would be you Lowell. First you claimed to have 4 drinks in 5 hours, more or less, then you claimed to have drank ALL DAY. This would be a major change.

              ” man that is very well versed in the subject matter, and with 1000’s of hours research time behind him”

              You don’t have 1000’s of hours of research. You don’t know what the word research means. You don’t have one journal account, you get your data from tertiary sources, and those sources are scam artists, conspiracy nuts, and the odd person with a social agenda. Being spoon fed bullshit isn’t research.

              “. If you were actually honest and could shake yourself out of your delusional state”

              Classic brain damaged alcoholic talk. I’m not the one who believes in “high level investigators” who don’t exist. I’m not the one who believes in an assassination attempt thwarted by an “insane clown posse”. And I’m not the one who believes in a DUI conspiracy after DRINKING ALL DAY.

              This is you. These are delusions. You are delusional. They are delusions of grandeur.

            • You are entirely crazed beyond delusional. What a sick and entirely twisted individual. There is again so much repeat and libelous slander in your statements that it is beyond insanity and entirely ridiculous.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “You are entirely crazed beyond delusional. ”

              That doesn’t make sense Lowell. Either one is delusional or one isn’t delusional.

              “repeat and libelous slander”

              Here is your brain damage again. First off it would be libel, not slander. And in order to be both it has to be knowingly false, and it has to cause you harm. If I’m beyond delusional (whatever that means) it can’t be libel. If it’s not false it can’t be libel. If it doesn’t cause you harm, it can’t be libel.

              Understand stupid fuck. You are a brain damaged alcoholic. You were in pound you up the ass prison for it. You’re so butthurt you won’t admit it’s your own fault. It was an elaborate conspiracy rather than a pathetic child starting in on a 6 pick at 8am and deciding to drive around.

            • kellymbray

              Have had a drink of alcohol at any time during the last year?

            • Sure, I have a couple beers from time to time, but I don’t drive and made that personal commitment already years ago. Especially so when I know the charges can or may be fabricated; and that there exists still the obviously remaining and potential motive to do so. You have not a clue. And you? And the relevance here is what?

            • kellymbray

              You are a drinking alcoholic in denial. You are a felon because of your addiction to alcohol and pills. Even with that you are still in denial. The charges were not *fabricated*. You are a fucking drunk and you did it to yourself. You are obviously not working any kind of program or you would not be such an ignorant arrogant douche bag. No wonder you look like the spokesmodel for “The Faces Of Meth”. Motive to set you up? You think anybody gives a rolling rat fuck about a complete nobody like you? The relevance is you have no credibility, zero, zip, nada.

            • You are referring to a proven false charge in 2005, and the next previous was in 2003. You were told there is nor has been any drinking and driving whatsoever, period; in what now amounts to nine years in time. So, thus any claims and questions put to me regarding anything related at all are entirely irrelevant and none of your business. Again what this amounts to is only to satisfy your own twisted need to produce personal attacks here, and by any actually quite sick means that you think you can dig up, lie about with actually zero knowledge, and claim to.

              And by the way I take no pills for anything, period. So, your lying on that issue as well. How would you know one way or the other, as you don’t even know me, personally. What an obvious and complete creep.

              You as well failed to answer my question as to what relevance this has in regard to credibility and the vaccine safety and effectiveness issues. It obviously has no relevance whatsoever now does it, other than providing for the means to conducting your own and quite sick and repeated personal attacks. You can’t deal with nor actually handle the vaccine truth, now can you? There in itself is the real problem; now isn’t it.

              As to your further claims, that all as well sounds more than a bit hypocritical coming from a person with a face like yours.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “You are referring to a proven false ”

              Proven by what? Your writ of habeas corpus was dismissed with prejudice. And don’t give me that crap about a “high level investigator” who you refuse to name and a report you refuse to fax. This is a figment of your imagination. You are a fucking alcoholic. You drank all day, you got caught, you got put in pound you up the ass prison.

              “You were told there is nor has been any drinking and driving ”

              And we know you’re a liar because you first try to claim you don’t drink “over the limit” anymore. Buzzed driving is still drunk driving. Then you claim you don’t have a car, which is that was true why claim you don’t drink over the limit? Then you claim you don’t drink anymore which again why claim to not drink “over” the limit if you don’t drink.

              You’re a pathetic liar.

              ” Again what this amounts to is only to satisfy your own twisted need to produce personal attacks here,”

              No Lowell, reminding you you’re a brain damaged alcoholic. Most normal people DON’T drink and drive. Those that do figure it out after being caught once, maybe twice. But you’re so brain damaged you required 4 times. And rather than admit you’re a dumb ass you invent a conspiracy to compensate for being so fucking stupid and self absorbed it took being sent to pound you up the ass prison to not do it again. And you’re a 50 year old man? Pathetic.

              “You as well failed to answer my question as to what relevance”

              No alcoholic. Get the fucking bottle out of your hand and sober up. I addressed it perfectly clearly. You are a brain damaged alcoholic. You are delusional, and when you’re not delusional you’re a liar, and when you’re not a delusional liar you are so poorly educated you literally don’t understand simple words and make up what they mean.

              And I can tell you this over and over again but you’ll promptly forget because you’re a brain damaged alcoholic.

              “hypocritical coming from a person with a face like yours”

              You’re a brain damaged alcoholic. You have slurred speech, wonky eyes, and a dazed expression on your face. Are you actually butthurt about not being someone’s bitch in prison? No wonder. You look like a 70 year old version of the unibomber, or as Kelly points out a spokesperson for Faces of Meth. And this is a good standard of your emotional maturity. If you can’t win an argument say someone is ugly.

              This is what happens when you don’t take accountability for your own actions.

            • That is a whole lot of beyond stupid, angry, and highly crazed whoo you have going on there. All you are doing with that is making yourself look 10 times worse than anything you could ever accuse and falsely accuse of. But you are so butt hurt and angry yourself regarding your repeatedly poor showing as to the vaccine issues, that you obviously do not even care.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “That is a whole lot of beyond stupid, angry, and highly crazed whoo”

              Says the man who was drinking all day and claims it was a conspiracy that resulted in a BAC of .138%

              “But you are so butt hurt”

              Why am I butthurt? I’m not the idiot that was in pound you up the ass prison. What is your obsession with repeating other people’s criticism. Are you some kind of drunken robot?

              “you obviously do not even care.”

              No, you don’t care since you got behind the wheel 4 times drunk, at least one time drunk and hopped up on Paxil. You literally don’t give a shit about anyone other than yourself. And you do this during the day, when kids are out. Your convenience is more important than the lives of bystanders.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “repeatedly poor showing as to the vaccine issues”

              This still would be you Lowell Mr. dead pathogens can mutate and cause {infectious} disease. Mr. More people get measles if they’re not vaccinated even when the data says otherwise. Mr. that’s false data but NEVER provides the right data. Mr. so brain damaged you move from topic to topic without making a relevant point. Mr. dumps a shit ton of citations and fails to either read or understand them. Mr. Fucking Delusional Nutcase who actually believes someone tried to assassinate him.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “And by the way I take no pills for anything, period. ”

              Except when you did and you were on Xanax and Paxil.

              http://fiddaman.blogspot.com/2008/05/seroxat-withdrawal-reports-part-iii.html

              / I think the greatest disservice GSK did, was to falsely claim only drug addicts and the like, could get hooked on, or for only such poeple could paxil become habit forming? /

              Being a fucking alcoholic counts you dumb shit. You can’t claim to be part of a class action against GSK for taking Paxil and claim you never took pills. You’re a lying sack of shit Lowell.

            • Matt Zukowski

              ” have a couple beers from time to time”

              Which makes you a liar because you claim to have not had a drink in 9 years.

              I have a couple beers from time to time. But when I say this I mean it. You don’t. You literally DRINK ALL FUCKING DAY. I can’t say I never had a drink waking up, but I think I did that twice in my 20s, and that was after drinking too much the night before. But you know what… I DON’T DRINK SO MUCH BECAUSE I’M NOT A FUCKING ALCOHOLIC.

              “I know the charges can or may be fabricated”

              Maybe but you would need evidence this happened which you refuse to provide. And a nameless “high level investigator” who will ONLY meet people 2000 miles away and NOT fax a report does not count. These are like those little pink elephants you alcoholics see.

              It makes sense since you claimed to drink to address depression and go on Xanax and Paxil. But like a stupid fuck YOU DRANK ON XANAX AND PAXIL.

            • You better get your reading glasses on, actually review whats said, and put your brain in gear before your keyboard typing mouth, because you seem to find it impossible to quote anything correctly that I have ever said previously and nor here and right now. Calling a person a liar for things they clearly never said here, just makes you look all the more crazed, entirely twisted, and messed up.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “You better get your reading glasses on”

              Don’t need reading glasses you stupid fuck. Covered this in detail. See glasses on me on horse? Do you use reading glasses to ride a horse? No? Stupid fuck.

              “Calling a person a liar ”

              You are a fucking liar. You kicked in screamed how you don’t drive anymore, you don’t drink OVER the limit and drive anymore, and how you don’t even drink anymore. Now you admit you’re still drinking means you are a fucking liar you stupid fuck. You are delusional, and you are a liar, and you have a comprehension disorder so when you are not delusional and lying you misrepresent crap.

              “things they clearly never said here,”

              This is common in people who have narcissistic personality disorder. Why qualify your statement when it’s not needed. Ah but it is needed because you’ve made these claims elsewhere.

              A normal person would say “I never said that”. A normal liar would say “I never said that”. Someone with a pathological issue would say “I never said that here”.

              And it’s highly unlikely that someone whose drinking was do out of control near their 50s they got 4 DUIs is suddenly going to learn moderation.

              Look it’s your body. Drink yourself into oblivion if you choose. Just don’t expect anyone to respect you.

            • Maybe he can’t read the labels.

            • As the editor of this site perhaps you should actually attempt to build your image as a bit more honest and professional? Of course that wouldn’t be necessary as you are quite obviously only attempting to follow the lead of the rabid cult spin master denialist, David Gorski.

            • Geez Lowell, that’s the nicest compliment anyone has ever paid me. To be mentioned in the same breath as David Gorski is incredibly gracious of you.

            • I fully realize that you take pride in your skills of and at twisted the information and the facts; fitting well with a high level of all out deception and denial. Your articles clearly follow the same outline and the same game plan as Gorski. That wouldn’t exactly be anything at all to be proud of, in my view. And if you are so right, then why as well do you not have any, and provide no identity as to yourself?

            • Stacy Mintzer Herlihy

              Just how many DUI’s or years in jail for drunk driving does one need to have credibility in your eyes, Hubbs?

            • No actual DUI here in 11 years; is that still a problem for you? 9 years it has been since a proven false charge took place. And go ahead and tell me in no uncertain terms what relevance that has to this articles subject matter; and in regard to debating the vaccine issues? That is a direct question.

            • I think you are correct, sir. To be honest, you’d think that the security would be more vigilant with the inmat- I mean, the patients.

            • So you admit it that you would choose to have locked away and drugged any person that dares to promote the vaccine truth, and who which exposes the cult teachings of and the false propaganda politics of the pro-vaccine party line. How entirely classic is that and can it get.

            • Um… No. I would not choose to have those locked away who promote the vaccine truths. You notice I was saying that Doctor Simpson was your doctor in my scenario?

              That tells you right there that I don’t want those that promote the truth locked away. To borrow a phrase from a great, good, and decent man: “I want the lying liars who lie locked away and drugged.” (His words were emphasized with the italics).
              If they are, it will keep them from harming themselves, and others with their deranged ramblings.

            • Dear Sweet Tap-dancing Jesus. You really are stupid. You’re NOT the one telling the truth about vaccines. Doctor Simpson is.

              So, no. He would not be the one to be locked away. You would.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “you have nothing but your illusions and delusions of vaccine grandeur”

              No Lowell, YOU have delusions of grandeur. Among them is thinking you’re important enough to assassinate. Ordinary people are not assassinated. Sometimes they’re murdered, but it’s exceptionally rare average joes are rubbed out by a paid assassin. It’s even MORE rare when the attempt fails and there is no police report and the resolution is “an insane clown posse”.

              And among your delusions is truly believing that dead things can mutate and cause disease. In order to mutate that has to be a genetic change in an organism, and for that change to have the ability to be passed down to it’s descendants. But you’re such a moron you don’t understand DEAD THINGS CAN’T REPRODUCE thus CAN’T MUTATE. You think this because you have a comprehension disorder. You literally don’t understand what words mean so you make it up as you go. But you have the delusion you are some famed researcher with “more Science on your site than the CDC”.

              So R.w. has a point. You lack the ability to understand sources and you’re a bit of a waste of time. In fact it’s funny you’re revisiting this old thread when you got your butt kicked on another.

            • Well that is a bit harsh, sir.

              I approve.

            • As long as you want to talk about delusions, perhaps you should get your reading glasses on and read your own comments and thus start to realize the twisted depth of your own delusions and outright insanity.

            • Matt Zukowski

              “perhaps you should get your reading glasses ”

              I don’t have reading glasses. You see this pic. You’re pretty obsessed with it. See the glasses. Do you need reading glasses to ride a horse? Would you WANT reading glasses to ride a horse?

              And stupid fuck, who uses reading glasses on PCs anymore? Don’t you have at least 20 inches if not 32 or 40? You’d have a point on tablets but you are a stupid fuck because I DON’T HAVE READING GLASSES.

              “own delusions and outright insanity.”

              Says the man who thinks someone who wears glasses on a horse needs reading glasses. Stupid stupid stupid.

              And this doesn’t work, repeating other people’s criticism. YOU suffer from delusions. Pointing out you are batshit delusional doesn’t make me delusional.

            • You want real vaccine safety science? Take a look.

              And you actually think there are readers dumb enough and sheeple unquestioning enough to believe that. There is simply and absolutely no shame to nor in your endless lying. And that was just a small part of the existing studies and data.

              Journal of Toxicology-Research Article

              The Severity of Autism Is Associated with Toxic Metal Body Burden and Red Blood Cell Glutathione Levels, (full study)

              http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2009/532640/

              Aluminum Induced Immunoexcitotoxicity in Neurodevelopmental and Neurodegenerative Disorders
              http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/documents/Aluminum-Blaylock.pdf

              Journal of American Nutraceutical Association 6: 21-35, 2003.

              Interaction of Cytokines, Excitotoxins, and Reactive Nitrogen and Oxygen Species in Autism Spectrum Disorders, Russell Blaylock, MD* Medical Director, Advanced Nutritional Concepts Ridgeland, Mississippi
              http://www.nutrimedical.com/news.jhtml?method=view&news.id=1084

              Autism Spectrum Disorders and Aluminum Vaccine Adjuvants
              http://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-1-4614-4788-7_89

              Review

              Empirical Data Confirm Autism Symptoms Related to Aluminum and Acetaminophen Exposure

              http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/Entropy/entropy-14-02227.pdf

              N Am J Med Sci. 2009 July; 1(2): 28–47.

              What is regressive autism and why does it occur? Is it the consequence of multi-systemic dysfunction affecting the elimination of heavy metals and the ability to regulate neural temperature?

              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364648/

              Slow CCL2-dependent translocation of biopersistent particles from muscle to brain
              http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/99

              The NALP3 inflammasome is involved in neurotoxic prion peptide-induced microglial activation
              http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/9/1/73/abstract

              Neuro-inflammation, blood-brain barrier, seizures and autism
              http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/8/1/168

              Evidence of oxidative damage and inflammation associated with low glutathione redox status in the autism brain
              http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v2/n7/full/tp201261a.html

              Biol Trace Elem Res. 2013 Feb;151(2):171-80. doi: 10.1007/s12011-012-9551-1. Epub 2012 Nov 29.

              Toxicological status of children with autism vs. neurotypical children and the association with autism severity.

              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23192845

              Toxicological & Environmental Chemistry

              Volume 94, Issue 8, 2012

              Maternal transfer of mercury to the developing embryo/fetus: is there a safe level? (Flu shots with Thimerosal)

              http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02772248.2012.724574#.UuF482Tna2V

              Ann Clin Psychiatry. 2009 Jul-Sep;21(3):148-61.
              Phenotypic expression of autoimmune autistic disorder (AAD): a major subset of autism.
              http://www.aacp.com/pdf%2F2103%2F2103ACP_Research1.pdf

              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19758536

              A Parent’s Primer: Vasculitis and Vaccines, (More inflammation problems, likely due to the aluminum adjuvants, this time its in the blood vessels. Referenced)
              http://sanevax.org/a-parents-primer-vasculitis-and-vaccines/

              Numerous studies regarding the MMR vaccine
              http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm

              Computational Detection of Homologous Recombination Hotspots in X-Chromosome Autism Associated Genes

              Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute, Seattle, WA

              http://download.pdf-world.net/Computational-Detection-of-Homologous-Recombination-Hotspots-in-X-download-w4554.html

              For Scientific Data: Homologous Recombination Study
              http://www.cogforlife.org/SCPIIMFARHR.pdf

              Autism

              The dangers of using aborted fetal cell lines for vaccine manufacture have been debated by the FDA for over 50 years, and yet they have not done sufficient safety studies. The active component of a vaccine is a virus. Viruses are too large to manufacture in test tubes. Therefore, vaccine manufacturers exploit the natural method of producing virus– they inoculate

              cells and the cells produce the virus for them. Each vial of vaccine contains contaminants from the cells used to make the virus. When we use animal cells to make viruses, the residual material is not human and so we mount an immune response to it and eliminate it. However, in the case of vaccines produced using aborted human fetal cell lines, we have the dangers of triggering an autoimmune response and insertion of the contaminating DNA to disrupt the child’s own genes.

              In the US, autism has spiked up in 3 distinct years, called changepoints. The first changepoint occurred in 1981, the second in 19881, and the third in 1996. These spikes coincide with the introduction of vaccines that are produced in aborted fetal cells. In 1979, aborted fetal cell produced MMR II was approved in the US. Compliance campaigns brought MMR II use up from as low as 49% for children born before 1987 to over 82% for children born in 1989 and later. A second dose of MMR II was also introduced to the vaccination schedule for children born in 1988 and later. The third changepoint corresponds to the approval of aborted fetal cell produced Varivax (chickenpox) in 1995 (See figure below).

              Read more: http://soundchoice.org/autism/

              Dr. Christopher Exley – The Systemic Toxicity of Aluminum: The Cause of Neurodegenerative Diseases?
              http://oneradionetwork.com/health/dr-christopher-exley-the-systemic-toxicity-of-aluminum-the-cause-of-neurodegenerative-diseases-november-5-2013/

              Biological Effects of Aluminum: The Current Science
              http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/12/23/biological-effects-of-aluminum-the-current-science/

              Vaccine Safety Conference Session 16 Dr. Christopher Exley

              Prof C. Exley
              http://www.keele.ac.uk/lifesci/people/chrisexley/

    • Mike Stevens

      I read that as a “…Power Yoda instructor”.