scary-bill-gates-vaccines

Bill Gates vaccinations in Africa – antivaccine hatred

The antivaccination cult really despises Bill Gates’ vaccinations in Africa. Not that he actually gives the vaccines, his foundation supports vaccinating kids in Africa, so that they have a better chance to survive.

One of the world’s leading sponsors of vaccine research and bringing healthcare (including vaccinations) to underdeveloped countries is the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundationlocated in Seattle, Washington.

There is nothing more admirable and moral than a person who has built incredible wealth, and then decides to give it back to the world in a way that cannot be measure monetarily. Bill Gates’ foundation is working to eradicate polio and HIV in countries where they are the some of the leading causes of death.

Of course, the Foundation’s support of vaccinations has caused it to be the target of the vaccine denialism movement. These attacks border on the vicious and insane–here are the worst of the worst:

  • Natural News, the faux science website, promoted one of the most pseudoscientific lunatics on the planet, Mike Adams, pushes the frightening news that Gates Foundation partner forces vaccines on Malawian children at gunpoint, arrests parents. And then there’s a blog, that insists that vaccines cause autism (no it doesn’t), has this outrageous headline: 131 African Children Vaccinated at Gunpoint – Do Bill Gates and Paul Offit Approve? So, is this true? Well, every article about these vaccinations done at gunpoint referred to this article. It’s been pulled, for unknown reasons, probably because it was found to be inaccurate. It has not been replaced by any other article. And there’s no other article out there (other than the usual vaccine denialist websites repeating the same nonsensical myth) that substantiates this story. It was probably some police protecting the healthcare workers, but absent any other reliable evidence (and repeating the same myth is not evidence), it is nothing.
  • Another antivaccination group is pushing the story that Gates is at fault for 47,500 paralysis cases after polio vaccine in India. However, the CDC has reported that there have been no cases of polio in India since 2011, compared to the 741 case in 2009. The paralysis cases were identified as non polio Acute Flaccid Paralysis, which can result from any number of non-polio viruses or bacterium. In this case, non-polio enteroviruses were identified as the cause, and not polio that resulted from the vaccines themselves. In fact, as I discussed before, polio vaccines may spontaneously recombine in the wild, and can be transmitted to other humans. However, in India with a population of 1.2 billion people, there have only been a few cases of actual polio from recombination events. If it were widespread, we’d see millions of cases, but we don’t. Debunked.
  • Uganda’s Children are Dying! Are Pharmaceutical Trials to Blame? It’s a mysterious disease, called Nodding Disease, which the anti-vaxxers immediately blame on vaccine trials (sponsored by Gates of course). Because those same anti-vaxxers have access to massive scientific laboratories staffed with huge numbers of scientists and medical professionals they were able to uncover this cause immediately. Well, actually they don’t. Real scientists are unsure of the cause, but they are running real clinical trials, providing real medical care, and are attempting to uncover the real cause. That’s science.
  • Bill Gates says vaccines can help reduce world population. And it’s Natural News at it again with Quote Mining. What Gates actually said was that the birth rate drops naturally because survival rate of children INCREASES from vaccines! Saving children is precisely what vaccines are supposed to do.

I don’t think that Bill Gates is perfect. For example, I’ve always hated Windows for many reasons, but I’m in the minority on that point. But this blog is not about Apples vs. Windows, it’s about skepticism towards pseudoscience.

rtavm-bill-gates-vaccines

Bill Gates has decided to take that money that he has earned from ruling the computer world to do some good for the planet, saving lives. The vaccine deniers are just inventing lies because Bill and Melinda Gates have made it their cause to help the people of this world live better, live longer, and live healthier with vaccines and better health care.

Not that Gates is listening to me, but keep doing it, because Vaccines Save Lives.

Editor’s note: This article was originally published in August 2012. It has been completely revised and updated to include more comprehensive information, to improve readability and to add current research.

If you need to search for accurate information and evidence about vaccines try the Science-based Vaccine Search Engine.

Key citations:

The Original Skeptical Raptor
Chief Executive Officer at SkepticalRaptor
Lifetime lover of science, especially biomedical research. Spent years in academics, business development, research, and traveling the world shilling for Big Pharma. I love sports, mostly college basketball and football, hockey, and baseball. I enjoy great food and intelligent conversation. And a delicious morning coffee!
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  • Mrs Chattles
  • Damo

    I just love the fact that one of the arguments against using vaccines in the developing world is that Bill Gates somehow profits from giving all of his money away. Every anti-vaxxer should be ashamed of themselves.

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  • tek wyzrd

    Bill Gates isn’t helping the world, he’s making windows users and Microsoft product buyers past and present support his actions in Africa. I will never again buy any Microsoft product.

  • Max Xam

    oh; you’re a shill.
    nevermind

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  • Rob P

    Regardless of whether or not a deliberate percentage of vaccines are tainted or purposely harmful, there exists a direct conflict of interest for a person of such means, that publicly holds as a personal conviction and core belief that the world is overpopulated and that man is the primary cause of all of the ills of earth- providing vaccines that supposedly saves lives.

    • “Personal conviction?” No. The safety and effectiveness of vaccines are beyond reproach. You may have an “opinion” that vaccines are dangerous or whatever, but you’re simply wrong, based on the evidence. Provide evidence, and I mean in the same quality and quantity that support the FACT of vaccines safety and efficacy, then we can have a discussion. But you have an “opinion” based on nonsense. It’s still nonsense, no matter how much you believe it to be true.

      • Rob P

        You are wrong. It is not my opinion it is fact. I have 25 years in Healthcare from Nursing to teaching and 3 degrees that range from BSN to an MBA in Business. Governments have used people as trial rats all through our history. Did you ever hear of the Tuskegee airmen you condescending little worm? How about Thimerosal – a MERCURY based compounding suspension that was used for years as a preservative for multi dose vaccines. Adverse reactions from Anthrax vaccines believed to be directly related to Gulf War Syndrom. Question Mr smarty- How much mercury is safe to introduce into your new born or toddler? As parent I would say zero- so would many other parents (outside of yours). There are 20 Vaccines now introduced into our children before age 5. This includes 3 doses for the Hep B vaccine in which prior to age of sexual exposure and or IV drug use the risk of contraction is near zero. There is no consensus of science- Consensus is a first line defense used by scoundrels as a way of avoiding debate of an issue. There is not a consensus in science, science is not a consensus. Valid scientific evidence and theory is always open for further investigation and improvement on what we learn through experience and trial and error. Otherwise people like you would be NOITALLS.

        • Rob P

          And it is not misspelled – it is a play on words- NO KNOWITALLS

        • Damo

          Don’t forget, the flu vaccine is actually a tracking device. It has been for years, but seniors don’t do much besides watch old episodes of Matlock on TVLand, which is why the feds are pushing for young people to get the flu vaccine.

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  • ZooMMERS

    India’s Polio-Free Status a Cruel Joke.
    Activist and physician Anant Phadke and C Sathyamala, epidemiologist who has been working on community health projects in different parts of the country(INDIA) for over 20 years, argued that it is not possible to eradicate polio, a disease primarily of poor sanitation and nutrition, with a vaccine. Polio-like paralysis can also be caused by other factors. DDT and other pesticides, exposure to lead and arsenic, other neurotoxins, injections, and vaccinations can trigger paralysis. Thus a holistic approach was needed to tackle the disease. OPV was chosen to be the only weapon to eradicate polio. T Jacob John, professor emeritus at CMC Vellore, pointed out that this vaccine, consisting of live viruses, is notorious for causing vaccine-induced polio. Because those vaccinated tend to shed the virus in their stool, it can mutate into a virulent form, causing paralytic polio in others, even leading to polio epidemics. When this phenomenon was noticed and reported by Indian doctors they were asked to increase the number of doses given to children! http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/indias-polio-free-status-cruel-joke

    • Mike Stevens

      I think I can see why you have 20 comments but only one upvote.

    • lol @ greenmedinfo! This reads like some of the worst conspiracy videos on youtube. Tinfoil anybody?

  • ZooMMERS

    India’s Polio-Free Status a Cruel Joke OPV was chosen to be the only weapon to eradicate polio. T Jacob John, professor emeritus at CMC Vellore, pointed out that this vaccine, consisting of live viruses, is notorious for causing vaccine-induced polio. Because those vaccinated tend to shed the virus in their stool, it can mutate into a virulent form, causing paralytic polio in others, even leading to polio epidemics. When this phenomenon was noticed and reported by Indian doctors they were asked to increase the number of doses given to children!
    Activist and physician Anant Phadke and C Sathyamala, epidemiologist who has been working on community health projects in different parts of the country for over 20 years, argued that it is not possible to eradicate polio, a disease primarily of poor sanitation and nutrition, with a vaccine. Polio-like paralysis can also be caused by other factors. DDT and other pesticides, exposure to lead and arsenic, other neurotoxins, injections, and vaccinations can trigger paralysis. Thus a holistic approach was needed to tackle the disease.
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/indias-polio-free-status-cruel-joke

  • ZooMMERS

    Bill Gates owns 500,000 shares of Monsanto and eats organic food and is saving seeds in a vault. Hmm what a guy!

    • hahaha, this is great! Very entertaining! Thank you.

    • Damo

      Even if true, what does one have to do with the other?

  • ZooMMERS

    Vaccine companies are corrupt and greedy. In fact all of the AMA is corrupt. Medicine should never be patented. They love to create fear of disease and maybe even create the disease itself in the military bio-warfare offices in Africa and around the world that mysteriously escape into the public. Amazing business model would not you say. It’s all about the money God that is worshiped over people and the planet.

    • That would explain Bill Gates’ foundation trying to save lives at his own expense. Seems legit.

  • ZooMMERS

    Bill Gates is about making money. He is still insecure with his billions. The billionaire business model creates the fear of disease, creates the vaccine medicine that creates more disease so there can be a new medicine created to treat the new disease and so on and so on. Cancer, immune dysfunctions, kidney disease etc… Amazing business model for the capitalistic mind of billionaire greed.

    • Damo

      I just love the fact that one of the arguments against using vaccines in
      the developing world is that Bill Gates somehow profits from giving all
      of his money away. Every anti-vaxxer should be ashamed of themselves.

  • Pam Lewellen
    • Yes, anyone can post a link, but anyone can post either a credible link, or, like you, post pseudoscience swilling propaganda sites to support their paranoid delusions.

  • Proponent
    • ZooMMERS

      FBI is bought. Someone is afraid!

  • Acleron

    Just been driven here by some nutcase claiming that the OPV has caused 50,000 cases of polio in India.

    Thank you for your sane and informative article.

    • ZooMMERS

      Wake up Do you really think billionaires have the people interest at heart or their bank account? Bill Gates in filling his pockets through his non profit. He owns ton’s of shares in VACCINE COMPANIES AND MONSANTO. DO YOU THINK THERE MIGHT BE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST HERE. And children are harmed everyday from dirty LIVE vaccines being injected in them. Autism is real and Vill Gates is on trial in India. Corporate lies are HIGHLY financed remember that. The people are drowning.

      • Acleron

        I go where the data takes me. The OPV is not as safe as the IPV by a very few cases per million. The lives it saves is immense.

        To believe in your conspiracy theory I would have to believe that the WHO, the CDC, and just about every university researcher all over the world are in on this conspiracy. That the American, UK, French, German, Indian, Pakistan, Australian etc, etc etc governments are all hiding thousands of deaths by vaccines and nobody has ever found any evidence for this. So that means that every coroner in every country are also in on this conspiracy. This is Alice in Wonderland country.

        • ZooMMERS

          The CDC is for sure bought and hiding scientific data. The WHO is also funded by corporate monies and manipulated by them for profit. Big Pharma makes al ot of money off the backs of innocent children. So does the CDC and the WHO. Very sad. I pray everyday for the children, There are SAFER ALTERNATIVES THAT CANNOT BE PATENTED SO THEY ARE BLOCKED BY BIG PHARMA. THEY WANT THEIR BILLIONS FROM VACCINES OR THEY WOULD NOT BE HIDING INFORMATION AND PAYING OUT MILLIONS TO THOSE THEY HAVE HARMED. WAKE UP!!!

          • Acleron

            Oh dear, the whole world is in on the conspiracy and only you see da troof. Really?

          • Don’t be jealous that you’re not part of the secret Illuminati! They only talk to special people like Zoomies.

          • Damo

            Aren’t you part of the conspiracy? I thought I saw you at the conspiracy Christmas party last year? Then again, if a conspiracy is 8 billion strong–is it really a conspiracy? I mean I or anyone else I know haven’t died from the vaccine (but relatives and friends of my parents who were around when polio was a scourge have died from the disease, some decades later) surely that makes all of us survivors co-conspirators.

  • M&S

    Those countries do not need vaccines. If you are hungry, you need food. If you have nowhere to sleep, you need a shelter. Etc. The same applies to refugee camps.

    • I guess that’s how you’d see it from your white-privilege eyes. But the rest of us know that diseases kill.

      • Bruce Hunter

        Anyone who thinks that by injection, any toxic mix into a New born baby, and that the baby will be more healthy, is delusional!!!

    • lilady R.N.

      Got any, um, proof, that enhancing food supplies and providing shelter prevents the transmission of airborne/droplet borne diseases such as measles?

      I don’t think so.

    • Lila Vinçot-Abiven

      The problem is, they need both (vaccines and food).
      Measles is lethal in these countries in part because of malnutrition and less access to hospitals. But reliable food and health infrastructures don’t only need money, they also take time to build and maintain (even more if part of the next generation die or is disabled from vaccine preventable diseases…).
      That’s why NGOs put efforts in both.

      • ZooMMERS

        Measles is not lethal I have had the measles so did my brothers and cousins, NO BIG DEAL. You are brainwashed by Big pharma’s fear campaign. They love it! They have spent a lot of money to brainwash the planet. The vaccine spreads measles for 10 days after inoculation. The Vaccine can spread measles that would not have been there otherwise. Do your research from independent studies because the CDC is bought. Remember a lot of money is at stake.

        • Lila Vinçot-Abiven

          *sigh* Did you miss “in these countries” ?

          And of course, you tell people to do their research, without helping them in the least by indicating what you consider pertinent references…

        • Yes, because your sources have no financial interests or agendas. *laugh* Get a grip, dude.

        • Damo

          Yes, because I remember ten days after vaccine day all the kids at school were mysteriously absent.

    • Katia

      Health care is part of basic needs.

  • Spencer James Smith

    skeptical raptor. what do you have to say about aluminum in vaccines? is it harmful?

    • Niegol

      Thats an adjuvans. Its in the nano molar range and an enormous number of clinical trials have proven it safe.
      That being said, alternatives to metal based adjuvans are being created, based for example on LPS (bacterial polysaccharides) or other substances which activate the immune system and make vaccines effective.
      Fyi, without any adjuvans, most vaccines would not give you a decent immunity. That is because the vaccine does not in itself trigger the immune system to react sufficiently strongly, so we add compounds that act as “Danger” signal, activating the immune system so the vaccine gets spotted and adaptive immunity (B and T cell memory) is created.

      • Spencer James Smith

        which clinical trials? the ones that get paid to be biased? and what about what he said about the safe amounts of aluminum stated by the FDA?

      • Spencer James Smith

        thank you for explaining adjuvans. i am more concerned with dr. blaylock saying it is an unsafe way to have aluminum injected into your blood. and at a nano level, it will pass through into the brain. any study that says it is safe, is omitting data or didnt do a proper experiment. because its all tied to money.

        • Cherry picking and confirmation bias. Take a shot at learning how to do pseudoscience, because you’re fucking good at it dumbass.

          • Spencer James Smith

            how is that cherry picking? pro vax people always say cherry picking when something is said that they cant argue against or dont like. i forgive you for your foul language and insulting me.

          • Lila Vinçot-Abiven

            The problem with this “$3,000,000,000” argument is : what do you think it means ? What pro-vax argument do you think it counters ?

            If you think that pro-vax people say that vaccine injury never happens, then you are wrong. We do admit it, we are only saying they are rare, and not as frequent as anti-vax people say they are.

            The sum paid doesn’t illustrate the number of people compensated, nor does it represent the number of compensation per doses of vaccines in the general population.

            http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2012/01/oh-no-the-us-has-paid-out-2-billion-in-vaccine-injury-compensation-that-must-mean-vaccines-are-dange.html

            http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2015/03/on-vaccine-injury.html

            Also, since you didn’t provide any link for what you were saying, yes in that sense it was unsubstantiated (especially if you begin your sentence by “I use only facts about vaccine dangers, such as…”). It could have been a link to the original vaccine court source, an article summarizing what was in it, etc.

          • Thank you.

          • Avery

            “pro vax people always say cherry picking when something is said that they cant argue against or dont like”

            Nope.

        • lilady R.N.

          Wow, just wow. You use Russell Blaylock as a source for scientific information about vaccines?

          Really?

          Blaylock is a crank anti-vaxxer who is part of the mercury militia and a major conspiracist:

          http://www.skepdic.com/blaylock.html

          • Chris

            Wow. I lost count of how many derogatory terms you used. Hate much?

          • lilady R.N.

            I despise crank anti-vaxxer doctors including Blaylock, the snake oil salesman Joe Mercola and any other anti-vaccine, anti-science doctor.

            Aluminum adjuvants have been implicated in autism, ADD and Alzheimer Disease? How about linking to published studies from first tier, peer-reviewed medical and science journals to back up your statements?

            PubMed is your friend.

          • Chris

            I use only facts about vaccine dangers, such as the fact that the vaccine court has paid out over $3,000,000,000 to date to the vaccine inured, while you use hate speech. You barely post without using derogatory hate filled name calling. Are you capable of posting without hate?

          • lilady R.N.

            Gee, caught telling porkies about the dangers of vaccines and asked to provide links to studies to prove your unsubstantiated assertions…and you managed to go off topic about the United States Court of Federal Claims (Vaccine Court).

            Typical ignorant-of-basic science troll tactics.

          • Chris

            Is the vaccine court paying out over $3,000,000,000 to vaccine damaged children and adults an “unsubstantiated assertion” or is it a fact? I think you know it is a fact.

          • lilady R.N.

            I see reading for comprehension is not one of your assets.

            How did you misinterpret my statement above about your “unsubstantiated assertions”?

            “Gee, caught telling porkies about the dangers of vaccines and asked to provide links to studies to prove your unsubstantiated assertions…and you managed to go off topic about the United States
            Court of Federal Claims (Vaccine Court).”

            I’m not playing anti-vaccine Whack-A-Mole with you, troll.

          • Guest

            The problem with this “$3,000,000,000” argument is : what do you think it means ? What pro-vax argument do you think it counters ?
            If you think that pro-vax people say that vaccine injury never happens, then you are wrong. We do admit it, we are only saying they are rare, and not as frequent as anti-vax people say they are.
            The sum paid doesn’t illustrate the number of people compensated, nor does it represent the number of compensation per doses of vaccines in the general population.
            http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2012/01/oh-no-the-us-has-paid-out-2-billion-in-vaccine-injury-compensation-that-must-mean-vaccines-are-dange.html
            http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2015/03/on-vaccine-injury.html

            Also, since you didn’t provide any link for what you were saying, yes in that sense it was unsubstantiated (especially if you begin your sentence by “I use only facts about vaccine dangers, such as…”). It could have been a link to the original vaccine court source, an article summarizing what was in it, etc.

          • Chris

            This $3,000,000,000 in payouts to those injured by vaccines counters the argument that vaccines are safe. This is one of many obvious proofs that vaccines are risky and hurting lots of children.

            It is also estimated that as little as 1% of the vaccine injured actually reports an injury or files a claim, so the problem is much larger than even this $3,000,000,000 payout to the vaccine injured indicates.

            As a side note, the vaccine court has also settled cases and made many payouts for Autism as well.

            I don’t always provide links to these facts, because I have limited time, and most of these facts can be easily researched with a quick google search for those who care enough about themselves and their children to spend a few minutes looking it up. Thanks.

          • lilady R.N.

            The vaccine court has never made an award for “vaccine-iinduced-autism”. There have been awards for encephalitis.

            Encephalitis is not autism.

          • Chris

            According to the peer-reviewed study by Mary Holland, Research Scholar and Director of the Graduate Legal Skills Program, NYU School of Law; Louis Conte, Robert Krakow, and Lisa Colin, was published in the Pace Environmental Law Review .

            They found that 83 children with autism received compensation for vaccine-induced injury. That number, the authors note, is probably the tip of an iceberg.

            Then of course there is the CDC whistleblower (Dr. Thompson) who released a statement that the CDC covered up data that clearly showed a 300% increase in autism in African American Boys. Apparently the CDC thinks it’s okay to injure brown people with vaccines.

          • Wait. What’s Mary Holland’s scientific research background? Oh none.

            And everyone with any intellectual capacity has debunked the asinine CDC whistleblower bullshit. Since you haven’t read the retracted study (did I say retracted?), you’d realize that Hooker (yes, he’s a hooker by name and trade) fabricated data based on n=5 data points.

            Really, you are so ignorant, you can’t see the depth of your ignorance. I’m saddened that you have to go through life like this.

          • Chris

            The CDC whistleblower statement from Dr. William Thompson, senior CDC scientist, was never retracted by Dr. William Thompson. His statement still stands. Here is a quote from the beginning of it:

            “My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998.

            I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism.”

            The researchers at the CDC found an increased risk of autism from MMR vaccine for ALL children… the risk was just a lot more significant for African-American males. Doctor Thompson has now been granted official whistleblower status and immunity.

          • Already debunked. Move on to something intellectually useful to us. Talk about Bill Gates, or I’m just going to delete your spam.

          • bigshambala

            Your superiority complex creates and mutates the enemy that agonizes you…thought I’d get some artful reasoning and dialogue while reading your arguments…nope…just acerbic condescension…bye.

    • Chris

      The high levels of aluminum in vaccines may be even more damaging than the mercury in the vaccines (and the mercury in some vaccines is as high as 50,000 parts per billion, while a liquid with 200 parts per billion of mercury are classified as hazardous material by the EPA). Aluminum is a developmental neurotoxin and has been linked to Autism, ADD, and Alzheimer’s disease.

      According to a new study published in Current Medical Chemistry, children up to 6 months of age receive 14.7 to 49 times more aluminum from vaccines than the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) safety limits allow.

      • Spencer James Smith

        thank you chris.

      • Wow. A low impact, pay to play journal. Of course, those of us who use real science, also get our science from real journals that publish real results.

        But I did get a laugh at your pretend science, or pseudoscience. What an maroon you are.

        • Chris

          The science that Aluminum is a developmental neurotoxin is real. This is common knowledge among almost all doctors. The FDA safety limits can be looked up online by someone even as lazy disinterested in truth as you, and the aluminum levels of the vaccines in the publicly published vaccine schedule can also be found online. Anyone, even you, believe it or not, can find this information online. The science is real that aluminum has been linked to Alzheimer’s disease. Bury your head in the sand all you like, while injecting yourself with vaccine poisons like mercury and aluminum and formaldehyde as well as cancer virus contaminants like SV40.

          • Is not. Aluminum is one of the most common elements on the planet. You breathe more elemental aluminum than you’d ever get from aluminum salts which are what is used in vaccines.

          • Chris

            Fact: The now deceased head of vaccines at Merck, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, admitted on camera that Merck’s Hepatitis B vaccines, contaminated with a virus, caused AIDS in the US. He went on to say that ALL of Merck’s vaccines are contaminated with cancer and other viruses.

          • lilady R.N.

            “….The now deceased head of vaccines at Merck, Dr. Maurice Hilleman,
            admitted on camera that Merck’s Hepatitis B vaccines, contaminated with a
            virus, caused AIDS in the US. He went on to say that ALL of Merck’s
            vaccines are contaminated with cancer and other viruses.”

            Oh my. You really do need an education in vaccine-preventable-diseases and *reliable sources for origins of the HIV virus.

            http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/a-look-at-each-vaccine/hepatitis-b-vaccine.html

            “….The first hepatitis B vaccine was made in the 1980s by taking blood from people infected with hepatitis B virus and separating or purifying the surface protein from the infectious virus. Because blood was used, there was a risk of contaminating the vaccine with other viruses that might be found in blood, such as HIV. Although contamination with HIV was a theoretical risk of the early, blood-derived, hepatitis B vaccine, no one ever got HIV from the hepatitis B vaccine. That is because the blood used to make vaccine was submitted to a series of chemical and physical treatments that inactivated any possible contaminating virus. Today, there is no risk of contaminating the vaccine with other viruses because the surface protein is manufactured in the laboratory….”

            (Anecdotal) My multiply-handicapped child received the original serum-derived hepatitis B vaccine (Heptavax), before he entered an Intermediate Care Facility, July 1985, because there were several chronic hepatitis B carriers in the facility and because of the great risk for transmission of the virus among residents who were developmentally disabled. After two of the 3-dose series, he was immune to the virus (positive hepatitis B surface antibody). Serum tests done throughout his lifetime continued to show immunity until his death at age 28 years, ten years ago.

            * rense.com and Sayer Ji ARE NOT RELIABLE SOURCES FOR INFORMATION ABOUT VACCINES AND HIV/AIDS.

          • Chris

            I don’t use Rense for vaccine info and I don’t even know what Sayer Ji means so you are way off base in your assumptions.
            None of your long rant changes the fact that the aluminum in vaccine is a neurotoxin, nor does it change the fact that almost all vaccines grown using any type of animal or human cells can be contaminated with any one of hundreds or even thousands of different viruses in those animals or humans, including cancer viruses.
            Over 200 million people were contaminated with SV40 cancer viruses in contaminated polio vaccines given through the 1950’s. It is estimated that 15 people may have gotten cancer from the polio vaccine for every 1 case of polio stopped. The SV40 cancer virus is now found in up to 50% of certain types of tumors nowadays, because of this contamination.

          • lilady R.N.

            Of course there could be cases of aluminum toxicities, but they are not caused by the tiny amounts of Al salts when used as adjuvants in certain vaccines.

            People who ingest too many antacids or those whose jobs entail working with aluminum ore mining or manufacturing products and those who undergo dialysis for end stage kidney failure may difficulties with the dialysis fluids, which contain Al.

            Now that your concerns about aluminum toxicities have been answered…you’ve switched topics to another anti-vaccine theme, about contamination of earlier polio vaccines with the SV-40, which is the topic of multiple Skeptical Raptor’s blogs, here:

            http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/quashing-hollow-polio-vaccine-cancer-myth/

          • Chris

            “Now that your concerns about aluminum toxicities have been answered…”
            Wow, you love to make assumptions don’t you. You did not even address the fact that the cumulative aluminum neurotoxin levels given to children in the mandated vaccines exceeds the safety levels set by the FDA.
            Also, there was another scientific study that found that 2 mcg of aluminum in vaccines was enough to cause potential neurological damage in infants. How much aluminum do infants get in their very first Hep B shot at birth? 250 mcg. Last time I checked Hep B was a disease caught by prostitutes and drug addicts.

          • lilady R.N.

            I’ve answered your questions about aluminum toxicities and here is information from multiple studies which debunk the supposed aluminum toxicities contained in vaccines:

            http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/aluminum.html

            Learn to know the differences between Vertical Transmission and Horizontal Transmission of the hepatitis B virus to infants, before you post any more of your drivel:

            http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijh/2013/875791/

          • Chris

            As I like to “switch topics” here is another fact. In 2010, Pig virus was found in the GlaxoSmithKline Rotavirus vaccine, which prompted that vaccine to be temporarily suspended in the US. Vaccines are not only filled with neurotoxins like mercury (a toxic waste by EPA standards at up to 50,000 parts per billion in some vaccines) and aluminum, carcinogens like formaldehyde, and aborted fetal tissue, but in many cases they are also contaminated with potentially dangerous viruses.

          • Holy crap. That’s not just bad information, that’s bad fiction.

          • bigshambala

            You need a vaccine for confirmation bias disease.

          • Ah. Fond of making shit up, eh? Why doesn’t that surprise me?

          • bigshambala

            Poison ivy is pretty common too – should I make skin lotion out of it?

          • Yes you should. And then, rub it all over yourself.

        • Chris

          You said “What an maroon you are”. Did you even graduate high school?

      • lilady R.N.

        Wow, your source for information is snake oil salesman Joe Mercola, and you didn’t credit Mercola for that last sentence.

        http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/21/could-this-be-the-most-dangerous-aspect-of-vaccines.aspx

        • Chris

          Is aluminum a developmental neurotoxin? Yes
          Is there such a thing as aluminum toxicity? Yes
          Does the FDA have safety limits for aluminum? Yes
          Are the FDA aluminum safety limits exceeded with the vaccines in the vaccine schedule? Yes.
          This is common sense, not rocket science.

          • lilady R.N.

            You’ve yet to link to any study to prove that the amount of Al salts as used in vaccines is harmful to an infant. And, you never opened the link I provided up thread. Here it is again:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122

          • Do you enjoy lying Chris? Because other than the fact that there’s some arbitrary EPA limit for aluminum, vaccines do not exceed it. Moreover, you have NO fucking evidence that aluminum accumulates, nor do you have any fucking evidence that aluminum has neurodevelopmental effects. You keep reading pseudoscience websites for your lame ass “research”, all you are going to get is mockery. Because you should be mocked for your ignorance.

          • bigshambala

            …and you wonder why people who are searching for answers are turned off by your tone? You don’t sound persuasive. Now I’m even more skeptical of vaccines.

            …and you should have more thoroughly explained your interpretation of the controversial Bill Gates vaccine quote. It was as clear as mud.

          • Avery

            You are more “skeptical” about vaccines because of someone’s TONE?
            You realize that is completely irrational, right?

        • ZooMMERS

          Its clear you are paid by Big Pharma. Nurses need to do their research outside of the AMA. Wake up

          • Absolute_Shower

            “Its clear you are paid by Big Pharma”
            If I had a penny for every time I’ve seen an anti-vax ignoramus say that, I could fund the “Big Pharma” shill program myself.

          • I wish you would! I need my money!

    • lilady R.N.

      Aluminum which is used as an adjuvant in some vaccines is not harmful to infants:

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122

      • ZooMMERS

        What a LIE. Aluminum is harmful to humans!!! And a small baby is super vulnerable. Babies are damaged today from the poisons thet put in vaccines. The CDC is covering it up but there has been a lot of money compensating families for the damage. Ypu are a nurse shame on you for not doing your research!

  • gordon ashacker

    The Indian researchers acknowledge that Acute Flaccid Paralysis can be the result of many causes. However, in this case they noted a fourfold increase in the condition coincident with a doubling in the dosage schedule with OPV. Additionally the states which implemented the increased schedule first, saw the AFP increase first. A fourfold increase in association is considered strong evidence of causality in the field of Epidemiology. This is especially likely to be true in this case since it is a well known side effect of the OPV program. Acute Flaccid Paralysis has been an observed side effect of OPV in all countries and the WHO has set an upper limit of 1 case per hundred thousand population as acceptable. Any rate greater than this level of occurrence requires notification to the WHO. The Indian rate of AFP represents a rate of approximately 5 per 100,000, which has been reported to the WHO. If I might be so bold as to make a request of your website, I would respectfully ask you to review your assessment of this important case and revise your analysis. Sincerely, Gordon

    • “A fourfold increase in association is considered strong evidence of causality in the field of Epidemiology.” Actually, no it isn’t. That increase would certainly be of great concern, but it is decidedly NOT evidence of causality because there’s nothing specifically linking one with the other except your imaginative bias. It could just as easily be evidence of poor conditions in the field, and/or lousy hygiene on the part of the caregivers and/or the patients. Post hoc ergo propter hoc much?

      • Post hoc fallacies are amongst the favorites of all science deniers.

        However, and not to give any leeway to antivaccine cultists, but we evolved with the post hoc brain pattern, because we didn’t have enough data other wise. Our ancestors saw a snake, people die, therefore snake bad.

        But in the world of real knowledge, we don’t need the post hoc fallacy anymore. But the cult relies on it, because they have no evidence.

      • gordon ashacker

        Mike, the 4 fold increase was noted on a state by state basis coincidental to the implementation of the increased doses of oral polio vaccine. Acute Flaccid Paralysis is a known side effect of that vaccine and has been observed in all countries that use this vaccine. There is no doubt what has caused this shocking increase in this paralysis in India.http://webmedcentralplus.com/article_view/35

        • lilady R.N.

          Where did you come up with paper?

          That’s the latest anti-vaccine study being floated on the clown blog, Age of Autism.

          • gordon ashacker

            I don’t know what you people are having trouble understanding. Under the former schedule Indian children received six doses of OPV and there were approx. 12,000 cases of AFP per year in the country. Once they instituted their new 10 dose regimen, (The Pulse Polio program), AFP cases surged to 48,000 per year. Dozens of papers refer to this phenomenon. ie.http://www.issuesinmedicalethics.org/index.php/ijme/article/view/110/1065

          • lilady R.N.

            That bullsh!t paper authored by Indian doctor Dr. Puliyel who fancies himself as a “vaccine whistle blower”, also claims that polio eradication is impossible. But for the political unrest in certain parts of the world (Afghanistan and Pakistan), polio would have been eradicated from the face of the earth:

            http://www.bbc.com/news/health-21207601

          • gordon ashacker

            The American Academy of Pediatrics thought enough of the article to print it:http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/135/Supplement_1/S16.2.full

          • lilady R.N.

            That’s not an “article”, it is an abstract from a recent Pediatrics journal supplement.

            Dr. Puliyel maintains his own website, where he questions the use of oral polio vaccine, hepatitis B vaccine and other vaccines administered in early childhood, as well as mercury in multi dose vaccine vials. He also commented favorably on the thoroughly debunked and retracted analysis of the 2004 DeStefano et al case control study, authored by Brian Hooker…using Geier, Geier and Sykes as references:

            http://jacob.puliyel.com/

          • Provide real science published in real peer reviewed journals with at least a moderately high impact factor. If you’re going to play here, we’ll either mock you mercilessly, or we’ll engage in some amount of dialogue.

            http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/how-evaluate-quality-scientific-research/

          • gordon ashacker

            Okay S Raptor, I appreciate your approach. I really do, and believe me, for what it is worth, I am pro vaccines in general..I do however question the billions upon billions of doses of polio vaccine given out in a world where there are less than 400 cases of polio annually. One has to get this disease from someone else who has it, as I am unaware of any natural reservoir of this disease. (Although I am certainly aware that the total number of recorded polio paralysis cases is certainly less than the actual number of individuals who contract the virus and can potential pass it on to others). The best way to eradicate the last few cases is to give the affected regions better food and especially water and sanitation! Without these measures no investment in vaccine campaigns will ever eradicate polio. Giving TEN doses of OPV to every Indian child (Not to mention 5-6 doses to every child on Earth) is ridiculous overkill and there are real and significant health effects resulting from administering this many vaccines. There hasn’t been a case of North American transmission of wild polio for more than 40 years, and yet five IPV doses are administered to every child. These doses prevent nothing and cause real harm, albeit in a very small number of cases. (I know. I have had Guillain Barre twice and spent time on wards with individuals who acquired the condition from vaccines, usually flu shots). There is no conclusive proof that the increase in Indian AFP is as a result of the Pulse program, but many respected sources agree that the situation requires further investigation. The alternate explanations provided to this point are weak and equally unproven (that increased surveillance has identified more cases or that a non polio enterovirus has simply increased in potency). I think that you will agree, if you look at the graphs in this study by the Indian government, that there could well be an association with a significant number of these cases and OPV. If not, then go ahead and mock me mercilessly! I can take it!http://jacob.puliyel.com/download.php?id=248

          • Avery

            Per capita consumption of cheese (US) correlates highly with the number of people who died by becoming tangled in their bedsheets:

            http://www.tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=7

    • Spencer James Smith

      the WHO is bull crap. it is funded by the rockefellers. so is the UN. the land and facility for the UN was paid for by david rockefeller. who from his own book you can read that he wants one world government, and a lower population. and rockefeller documents from 1968 show that they are trying to insure an incognito way of causing infertility through the vaccines. david rockefeller is evil. and anything he funds i will not trust.

      • Amusing. WHO is made up of people dedicated to world health, who have spent decades in research and science. What have you done? Sat on your fat ass for five minutes googling stuff that confirms your personal bias? Yeah, I’m convinced dumbass.

        • Spencer James Smith

          david rockefeller – “we are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order”
          david rockefeller again – “some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the united states. characterizing my family as “internationalists” and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. if thats the charge, i stand guilty and i am proud of it” quote from his own book.

          so you are telling me i should trust the UN. when this is the man that bought the land for its building to be built on? and i should trust the WHO, when this is that man that makes major financial contributions towards it? money is power, i am sure you know that. and those with the money, have a say in where they put it. so i am more apt to believe the WHO is lying and manipulating statistics, and the UN is shady, then those that are whistle blowers, who have no reason to come out unless it was the truth. and thats what my “dumb ass” has to say about this.

          • Yes, because David Rockefeller is an expert on medicine and science.

            You amuse me.

          • Spencer James Smith

            he doesnt need to be himself. he has enough money to pay scientists and those distributing and making the vaccines to do it. rockefeller corporation documents. you get to work with the UN and WHO if you fund it. just like lobbyists with politics. coroporations that provide funding influence decisions made by the politician to which they helped with their campaign.

      • lilady R.N.

        I bet you believe in the New World Order, The Illuminati and Chemtrails. Am I right? Have you read The Elders of Zion, as well?

        • Hey, the New World Order was a pretty cool faction in WCW when they debuted in 1996.

        • Avery

          Don’t forget Morgellons and the Lizard People.

  • DavetheSlave

    I submit Bill has done more for the world through Microsoft than he has through charity. He has improved the lives of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people either directly from employment in the company or indirectly from employment in companies that support Microsoft. Countless Chinese and Asian workers whose standards of living have been greatly improved because of Bill Gates. And this isn’t counting the millions here in the US who’ve been able to feed their families.thanks to Bill Gates.

    • kedwa30

      I don’t think Bill is inherently a bad guy. I think he is under some kind of mind control that makes him believe that weaponizing vaccines is in the best interest of the future of humanity. He really believes that killing off the poor will help preserve resources for the better classes, thus improving the quality of life for the survivors. Of course infant mortality is going to go down if birth rates decrease due to sterility and increased adult mortality. What a great guy, finding that loophole in statistics.

      • Wow. You really believe this crap? Cool.

      • Avery

        “He really believes that killing off the poor will help preserve resources for the better classes, thus improving the quality of life for the survivors.”

        No. His vision has nothing to do with “killing off the poor”. Your credulity has lead you to buy into nonsense. The goal is to create healthier conditions that REDUCE infant mortality rates, because it has been shown that people have MORE children when infant mortality rates are HIGHER.

        • kedwa30

          Your credulity leads you to believe that, but the fact remains, you have not eliminated all the confounding factors and thus you cannot show with any degree of certainty that people will magically choose to have fewer children if they magically believe that the one or two they do have will survive. The fact remains that sterilizing girls results in fewer pregnancies which in turn artificially lowers infant mortality. Fewer babies born means fewer babies that can die. You have not shown that 1. pregnancy rate is as high as ever 2. those pregnancies are carried to term 3. birth rate is as high as ever 4. infant mortality as related to pregnancies attempted is actually going down.

          No, the fact that fewer babies are born artificially lowers the number of dead babies and at the same time allows you to point out that the population growth is slowing because of the reduction in infant mortality. No, it is slowing because there are fewer babies when girls get sterilized.

          Even if people felt assured that their babies would not die in infancy, people of certain cultures still want to have as many children as they can. It is due to culture, which you failed to rule out, that people are choosing to have fewer children. Again, whether they choose so or whether it is forced on them with sterilization, having fewer children results in lowered rate of infant mortality simply because fewer babies are available to die. Until you express the rate as a percentage of pregnancies carried to term, you are simply using pseudo-math.
          It is a fact that a percentage of miscarriages is attributed to vaccinations of the pregnant mother. If you only look at those born rather than pregnancies attempted, then you are not getting the true picture. I know for a fact that more and more people in first world countries are turning to fertility clinics for help conceiving. It is not a choice if you are sterilized without your knowledge or consent.

          People in China were forced by rule of law to only have one or two children, depending on their status. People in the U.S. have been forced to have fewer children due to economic constraints. I know of a man who had one one child and that child went on a mission trip and got killed when the truck he was riding in slid off the side of a mountain. People still expect uncertainty in the future and they cannot know that an only child won’t get drafted into WWIII or killed in a back alley, or become a drug addict and OD. There are many many risks in first world countries that people still fear enough to choose to have as many children as they feel they can afford. Those fears are also present in third world countries. Simply reassuring people that their child will survive infancy is not going to cause them to voluntarily choose not to have as many children as they can. Having a large family is still a source of pride for many people in every culture.
          It is still the best retirement plan. China has found out the hard way that having one child per couple is extremely burdensome when it comes time for that child to take care of his parents when he is also trying to raise a child of his own and keep a wife and her parents. It is much easier to share the burden with siblings.

  • excalibur1812

    This website must also support the eradication of poor victims by sick, eugenics freaks. You people are the ones who need to be exterminated. Totally dis-credited. You join the ranks of MS lune BC.

    • CedarRapids

      ‘Totally dis-credited’
      You have any actual REAL sources to back up that claim?

    • Niegol

      aaannddd you have exactly what evidence that makes you stand up against scientific consensus, vast numbers of children saved by vaccines every day, hundreds of clinical trials and vast bodies of data proving that vaccines are the second most beneficial scientific breakthrough (first being hygiene) when it comes to reducing child mortality worldwide?
      Or are you just venting your opinion at the expense of the kids who end up not getting vaccinated, picking up an avoidable illness and dying?

      • Spencer James Smith

        there is no scientific consensus.

        • Yes there is. But in your delusional mind, you might have missed it.

          • Spencer James Smith

            consensus means all the scientists agree right?

          • Chris

            Science is not now and has never been a democracy. It does not matter if 99% of scientists accept one scientific theory and 1% accept another theory, because the 1% could be right.
            The scientific consensus used to be that the sun revolved around the earth, but the consensus was wrong, and the minority was right.
            The consensus of doctors used to be that cigarette smoking was safe, but the consensus was wrong, and the minority was right.
            In reality, consensus is meaningless in science.

          • You’ve got all of those things wrong, you know that?

          • Avery

            A. “The scientific consensus used to be that the sun revolved around the earth, but the consensus was wrong, and the minority was right.”

            Two things: Science has developed quite a bit in the intervening centuries, and the church, had tremendous influence over “scientific” consensus on that issue.

            B. “The consensus of doctors used to be that cigarette smoking was safe, but the consensus was wrong, and the minority was right.”

            Those doctors did not base their beliefs on scientific evidence (i.e., it was not a scientific consensus).
            http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/21/2/87.full

          • Avery

            “Science is not now and has never been a democracy. It does not matter if 99% of scientists accept one scientific theory and 1% accept another theory, because the 1% could be right.”

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus

          • Avery

            No.

  • jonesing77

    “Real scientists are unsure of the cause, but they are running real clinical trials, providing real medical care, and are attempting to uncover the real cause. That’s science.”

    As the parent of a vaccine-injured child (digestive disorder that presented the day after) this statement is a joke. I live in one of the crown jewel cities of modern medicine and no one ever told us to report this event to VAERS. They (several doctors) did halt his vaccines admitting he was injured…but no one told us to report. We didn’t even know it existed. Great care and oh what a thirst for data! Your idea that scientists bravely hunt down data is false, as are so many of your other assumptions.

    The vaccine debate is not cut and dry but you attempt to make it so.

    • Niegol

      And Im one of those scientist.
      First of all, im sorry for what happened to your child. If I would have all the answers, you’d be getting them from me right this minute. But the subject matter is very very complex.

      We Medical scientists are not perfect, we dont have all the answers (yet). We study one of the most complex things imaginable and achieve incredible results. look at Ebola, 18 months after we started, we are vaccinating people in the field. Look at polio, remember the wards full of iron lungs? We arent perfect, and neither is our science, no. We are however people who work very hard for less reward than we could get in comparable jobs in other fields, because its our lifes calling to do what we can to save and improve lives.

      Will it be 100%? no.
      But google smallpox in 1950, polio in 1980, or a host of other illnesses which used to rip families apart of a daily basis. If you seriously want to say that there is a debate about whether vaccines have improved the lives of the vast majority that has received then than you havent seen the real numbers.

      To compare, my mother didnt wear a safetybelt one day. Her car (a mini) got hit by a truck. The steering wheel broke and pierced the driver seat. If she had been wearing the safetybelt, she’d have been dead, I would never have existed. But that does not change the fact that in 99 out of 100 cases the chances of life being lost of far smaller when the safety belt is used.

      • You haven’t been around much. The person who wrote that is lying. But your answers were brilliant, though I doubt the troll will understand or accept them.

        • jonesing77

          Look at Raptor Boy…my guess is that Niegol is a few orders of magnitude smarter but Raptor starts by condescending. “You haven’t been around much.” Neigol, your answers were brilliant. I respect science and doctors though I do also understand that purity is long gone (as a whole) in the quest for knowledge. So many researchers are doing venerable work. Unfortunately, their bosses range from incompetents to criminals. We can have a dialogue on smallpox, sure. Polio, why not? Measles are off the table – proof that science is writing business a blank check and unable to stand up to the history of Langmuir and other crusaders out for their own personal greatness.

          Your last point was touching (and I’m glad your mother is okay) but does not weigh all factors of risk across all vaccines. I assure you my son was injured. His internal temp raised over a degree (permanently) and his BMs that were perfect the morning of the measles shot liquified the next day, bled days after. They did not return to form without heavy immunosuppressants. Why Raptor would think this is impossible is beyond me since it’s a stated potential side effect on the vaccine box. I believe that science has a worse hold on the human body than they would like to admit. We’re now looking at the polio virus to target tumors? We’re looking at measles to do the same? We lived in balance with pathogens we are now trying to eradicate. We washed hands and ate more nutritious food (or at least food more often) and the curve of outbreaks dropped. Yet too many claim that vaccines were the only cause and that they are perfect.

          Science tries its best and is responsible for so much goodness. Medicine, as a business, is the biggest culprit as I see it. And I should know since I started my career as a shill for a pharmaceutical company. You should have heard the conversations treating people as company mascots. So I believe both sides of the issue.

          I thank you for waking up each day and doing what you do. Wish I could say the same for Raptor.

      • jonesing77

        Just so you know, I appreciate your post and replied. We’ll see if my reply survives whinebot. And by the way, my son is better thanks. Not perfect but about 95% restored through…you guessed it…a natural remedy that performs as well as Humera without giving him the body of a 65 year old at age 22.

      • jonesing77

        Well…let’s see if this reply doesn’t get sent to drafts or deleted…some strange things happening around this blog. Thanks for your comments. Hopefully this reply survives so you can know I appreciate it. And thanks for what you do. A scientist with an open mind is what the world needs more of.

    • Please bring scientific evidence that your child actually had anything happen as a result of vaccines. I have no sympathy for liars and ignorant fools.

      • jonesing77

        This is your religion, kiddo…why waste my time trying to pry your stubby fingers from something that makes up your identity? You won’t look at the Indian scientists asking Bill Gates to stop trying to eradicate polio. You won’t look at some top doctors there asking for it to stop and asking for the Oral vaccine to be looked at. You won’t look at anything that does not support your flawed logic. This is most likely all you have…so what’s the point in wasting my time?

      • jonesing77

        Do you want me to ship you the Johns Hopkins medical team? Irony that you ask for scientific evidence on a post where I lay out a reason why there is insufficient evidence of vaccine harm. Keep up with me.

        • Avery

          There is nothing ironic about it. This is the Internet, a place where any faceless person can claim anything,
          such as “They (several doctors) did halt his vaccines admitting he was injured…”

          Without some sort of credible documentation, or a sufficient argument from logic, why would you expect someone to just take your word for it?
          And without substantiating that claim, this claim does not hold water, because it is (all to common) faulty logic: “…vaccine-injured child (digestive disorder that presented the day after)”

          http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/post-hoc/

          • jonesing77

            Dear, Avery — I really don’t care what holds water with you and also don’t care what you do or don’t believe. I know that “logical fallacy” (thanks for the link) is currently in vogue with the sciencerati but I did not submit my experience as evidence, but rather as a first person testimony that you can take the notion that vaccines are injury-free and jump off a bridge with said notion (I know…that’s trending towards another of your fancied terms “ad hominem”). Fever, liquified bowel movements the day after…all that happened to me and my family. Doctors recommended halting his vaccines. There is plenty of evidence that VAERS is underutilized (read: injuries are not properly tallied…ours certainly was not). Further, even the CDC admits to “a limited understanding of biological processes that underlie adverse events.” (< Our bodies are complex)

            "The NCVIA established a committee from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) to review the literature on vaccine reactions. This group concluded that there are limitations in our knowledge of the risks associated with vaccines. The group looked at 76 health problems to see if they were caused by vaccines. Of those, 50 (66%) had no or inadequate research to form a conclusion. [6, 7] Specifically, the IOM identified the following problems:

            – Incomplete and inconsistent information from individual reports;
            – Poorly constructed research studies (not enough people enrolled for the period of time);
            – Inadequate systems to track vaccine side effects;
            – Few experimental studies were published in the medical literature.

            Hope that's researchy enough to show you that research is not adequate.

            No way I had the experience I claimed. I, mean, it's not like the MMR vaccine has a warning about the risk digestive disorders. Whoops.

            Link: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccine_Monitoring/history.html

          • jonesing77

            Wow. Someone just got out of debate class. Dude, it’s not that serious. You want to stick your kids 35+ times? Do it! I was there at one point two. I’m not asking you to hold anything, water included. You are faceless as well. Maybe you’re not just a lemur parroting supposed facts from a corrupt industry. Maybe you are an astroturfer. So you discount my comments, as I have yours, and we’ll both be okay.

            * the “two” was on purpose. I’ve enjoyed watching your penchant for grammar. Cleaning up the internet one comment board at a time.

    • Avery

      “Your idea that scientists bravely hunt down data is false…”

      Nothing you wrote supports this claim. Are you conflating doctors and scientists?

  • John Richards

    The India case shoudn’t be dismissed merely because wild polio is eradicated. The benefits may outweigh the cost, but the live polio vaccine, and the way it was administered (high frequency of repeated dosage), does appear to have directly caused deaths in about 4,000 children and permanent paralysis in another 15,000. (about 8% and 37% of the 47,500 respectively). Just because vaccines are a great thing overall doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t evaluate each one in terms of harm caused vs harm saved, nor does it mean that any vaccine is a good one. This is especially true with respect to the Polio situation in India – there is a better version of the vaccine available (IVP, as used in the U.S.), that is far, far safer – though I expect there are availability issues in addition to the fact that it’s not as easy to administer (shot vs oral drops). 47,500 cases is still a lot less than the roughly 250,000 annual cases in the early 1990’s in India, and the oral Vaccine still wins the cost-benefit analysis, so let’s be clear on that… but 47,500 adverse cases is a huge negative impact that should be part of the ongoing discussion.

    • CedarRapids

      ‘and the way it was administered (high frequency of repeated dosage), does appear to have directly caused deaths in about 4,000 children and permanent paralysis in another 15,000. (about 8% and 37% of the 47,500 respectively). ‘ – and which source is reporting that? You need to be cite it or it just becomes another claim like the 47,500 one that has nothing to actually back it up.

      ‘but 47,500 adverse cases is a huge negative impact that should be part of the ongoing discussion’ – why are you going on about that number again when as the source above claimed, it wasnt anything to do with the vaccines?

      • gordon ashacker
      • gordon ashacker
      • John Richards

        The author is clearly biased in one direction, many anti-vax sources are biased in the other. I was working only with generally accepted facts, as I understood it, making the source of the information not terribly vital, but here is the basis of what I believed was fairly commonly known.

        Ind J Med Ethics http://www.issuesinmedicalethics.org/pdfs/202co114.html.pdf
        Abstract: It was hoped that following polio eradication, immunisation could be stopped. However the synthesis of polio virus in 2002, made eradication impossible. It is argued that getting poor countries to expend their scarce resources on an impossible dream over the last 10 years was unethical.

        Furthermore, while India has been polio-free for a year, there has been a huge increase in non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP). In 2011, there were an extra 47,500 new cases of NPAFP. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received. Though this data was collected within the polio surveillance system, it was not investigated. The principle of primum-non-nocere was violated.

        – The National Polio Surveillance Programme maintained that the increased numbers were due to reporting of mild weakness, presumably weakness of little consequence (27). However in 2005, a fifth of the cases of non-polio AFP in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh (UP) were followed up after 60 days. 35.2% were found to have residual paralysis and 8.5% had died (making the total of residual paralysis or death – 43.7%) (28). Sathyamala examined data from the following year and showed that children who were identified with non-polio AFP were at more than twice the risk of dying than those with wild polio infection (27).

        • Niegol

          What you are looking at here, unfortunately, is a vaccine directed against one type of enterovirus. As that one (polio) gets suppressed, another entero is taking its place. The niche is there, so it gets filled, thats what nature does. The new entero however, is far less likely to cause paralysis than polio itself. But work needs to continue on this topic.
          Important to mention here that enteros are quite a rare group, in the sense that not many viral families can pull this trick. Usually trophism is less easily changed and distance between viral family members is larger. Adeno viruses would btw be comparable to enteros in this respect, while smallpox clearly was not. HIV would also not be comparable for example, while influenza seems to be able to fill niches easily when other influenza viruses are subdued.

          • John Richards

            Thanks for the additional information. One thing you mention that strikes me is that the entero virus that fills the niche when the polio virus is destroyed – that it has lower levels of paralysis – are you sure of that? Might it depend on the strain of the virus? It can be hard to correlate the data that’s patchwork in the internet, but at least in India the NFP strain appeared to have a higher death rate vs Polio (I’m sure one would have to compare infection rates, death rates, paralysis rates, and ability to treat/recover to do a meaningful comparison of relative harm, but the factoids don’t seem to support the idea that the trade-off was worth it. Better to use the injection version of the vaccine which seems to avoid the issue with NFP.

  • keef
  • Payze Dues

    Dr J Anthony Morris, former chief vaccine control officer and research virologist of the US FDA, stated: “There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them, anyway.”

    • Barry

      Pretty sure I know why he’s the FORMER vaccine control officer…

      • jonesing77

        Yep…I’m sure you mean he didn’t tow the company line.

        • Avery

          *toe

          • jonesing77

            Learn something new every day. Thanks!

    • CedarRapids

      Trouble is there doesnt seem to be any evidence this guy was actually ‘chief vaccine control officer and research virologist of the US FDA’. He did work for the FDA but was dismissed in the 1970s. There also doesnt seem to be an offcial source cited for his apparent quote either.

      • John Richards

        According to the Washington Post, “Dr. Morris was chief vaccine officer for the Bureau of Biological
        Standards at the National Institutes of Health and later with the Food and Drug Administration, when the bureau was transferred to that agency in the 1970s.” However, as you say, there seems to be no evidence that he said those words above.
        .

    • Niegol

      Influenza vaccines are oddballs in the field. Production is weird (in eggs), clinical trials are tiny (or the seasonal flu would be passed before the vaccine hits the market), and the target (influenza) is a highly polymorphic and adaptable virus. This vaccine is in the pharma industry also one of the most controversial, and a lot of work is currently being put into the so called “universal flu vaccine” to resolve these problems and create a more dependable vaccine.

      That being said, there is ample evidence for the efficacy of the current flu shots vs not having the shot. Mortality in vulnerable groups is definitely lowered by the seasonal flu shots, but they are not as foolproof as we’d like yet.

  • Payze Dues

    Put it to rest, monkeys.

    (NaturalNews) Mercury tests conducted on vaccines at the Natural News Forensic Food Lab have revealed a shockingly high level of toxic mercury in an influenza vaccine (flu shot) made by GlaxoSmithKline (lot #9H2GX). Tests conducted via ICP-MS document mercury in the Flulaval vaccine at a shocking 51 parts per million, or over 25,000 times higher than the maximum contaminant level of inorganic mercury in drinking water set by the EPA.(1)

    The tests were conducted via ICP-MS using a 4-point mercury calibration curve for accuracy. Even then, the extremely high level of mercury found in this flu shot was higher than anything we’ve ever tested, including tuna and ocean fish which are known for high mercury contamination.

    http://www.vacfacts.info/danger-and-ineffectiveness-of-flu-vaccines.html

    • ChampIsHere

      food lab lol

    • Niegol

      You dont inject fish (I hope) and you ingest about 10.000 times the weight in fish compared the amount of vaccine you get administered.

      Mercury (and aluminium) are adjuvants. Without them, vaccines dont work. The levels are not toxic, as the continuing health of millions of vaccinated people worldwide proves.

    • Avery

      You had me at NaturalNews, because it is a model of honesty, scientific rigor, and journalistic integrity.

  • Payze Dues

    I think it’s so befitting that Vaccine essentially means “cattle”. 🙂 That’s who they’re intended for and that’s who enjoy them. The Goyim Cattle.

    • Connor Reeves

      The only definition having to do with cattle is.
      “the virus of cowpox, used in vaccination, obtained from pox vesicles of a cow or person.”

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vaccine

      • Payze Dues

        Vaccine from VACCA – Latin COW stfu moron

        • Niegol

          See my post above before calling others moron.
          You’ve just exposed your utter ignorance to the entire internet.
          Vacca from cow indeed, as in vaccinia (cowpox virus, harmless to humans, but conveys protection against human smallpox, a deadly virus now eradicated due to vaccination), although in your case I would have preferred if they had vaccinated you using the human smallpox virus.

      • Payze Dues

        Enjoy your “herd” immunity, Goy.

    • Niegol

      thats because the first vaccine was created from a virus called “vaccinia”. Its a cattle virus that gives people protection against smallpox, without making them ill.

      See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccinia

  • D Titus
    • Niegol

      Yes, the NECC disaster was terrible. But look closely at the article, its not Pharma industry. Its a compounding pharmacy, an entirely differently regulated beast. Fyi, most of the real pharma companies have been pushing for years to have these kind of cowboy outfits regulated and inspected in the same way as drug manufacturers.

      In a nutshell: The law was written so that a company making drugs for a large market is very strictly controlled and inspected (its called GMP, in the US its part of the CFR laws). These companies make batches which can be given to hundreds, sometimes thousands of people, so the risk is considered high.
      Hospitals and local pharmacies however are regulated in a different way. They are meant to make doses for single patients, or small patient groups, so the risk is considered smaller, and the rules were less tight. These are not FDA inspected, its local government that controls these.

      NECC grew too big. Eventually it was making batches which were shipped all around the US and given to hundreds of patients. The rules however were still that of a small, local pharmacy. To make matters worse, the execs of NECC falsified paperwork, showing that LAF hoods (“sterile” workplaces) had been maintained, when they were not (cost cutting). This is simply a criminal act of fraud and can happen in any industry.

      Rules have since been updated, ensuring that (in the US at least, in Europe its still being implemented) compounding pharmacies are regulated as strictly as big Pharma companies.

      And fyi, yes I work for a small pharma company (non-US). And the people you are pointing your accusing finger at are for the greatest part goodwilling, hardworking people, who are your best hope of one day surviving cancer, cardiac arrest or some other life threatening situation. You may want to re-examine your attitude towards them.

  • kedwa30

    For some reason my replies don’t appear to be showing up.
    In response to the challenge posed by Mike Stevens, I will agree to a compromise. I will consume 50,000 grams of silica as per the challenge, over the course of 80 days if he will at the same time consume 8 ounces of ethylmercury over the same time period. In other words, I accept his challenge with the reasonable accommodation that this takes place over a period of 80 days time.

  • D Titus

    More proof you cannot trust organizations like gates monsanto.

    This video shows how corrupt the media and monsanto are. But if you cannot believe video then please stop watching your TV.

  • D Titus

    CDC violates law to hide that facts about thimerosal. More proof of hiding the truth.
    WHY DO PEOPLE HIDE THE TRUTH?
    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/07/01/autism_mercury_and_politics/

    In 2000, the CDC met with pharmaceutical companies and the FDA in secret
    to review its findings linking Thimerosal with the dramatic rise in
    neurological illnesses. According to transcripts, participants were
    alarmed about the undeniable links between the Thimerosal and widespread
    brain damage in children. Dr. Bill Weil told the group, ”You can play
    with [the results] all you want. They are statistically significant.”
    Dr. Richard Johnston admitted he feared his grandchild getting a
    Thimerosal-containing vaccine. But the group was most concerned with
    keeping the findings secret. ”Consider this embargoed information,”
    said Dr. Roger Bernier, a senior director at the National Immunization
    Program, at the meeting’s close. The CDC now says it has ”lost” the
    data that supported the crucial study and has persistently defied
    congressional requests and federal law requiring it to open up the
    federal Vaccine Safety Database to scientists and the public.

    • lilady R.N.

      Scientists met at the Simpsonwood Conference Center to discuss the existing studies available for methyl mercury and elemental Hg. The transcripts of the entire Conference are available on the internet.

      Mr. Kennedy who is not a scientist and who does not possess any knowledge about Thimerosal and organomercury compounds ran off his mouth and produced a scurrilous document, “Evidence of Harm”, based on his deplorable ignorance of chemistry, which defamed the participants who attended the Simpsonwood conference. His “report” was later retracted by the publisher of his paper.

      Forbes Science blogger and every other science blogger/science journalist wrote about Mr. Kennedy’s lame attempts to make Thimerosal the catalyst for the onset of autism:

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2014/07/20/robert-kennedys-dangerous-anti-vaccine-activism/

      Kennedy has a history of sucking up to credulous parents to advance his junk science…even appearing as the keynote speaker at the 2013 Autism One Conference…the gathering place for quack autism practitioners and their quack, dangerous “treatments” for autism.

      Recently, Kennedy published a book with his junk science about Thimerosal. It was roundly criticized by science bloggers and science journalists:

      http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/07/robert_f_kennedy_jr_profile_in_the_washington_post_anti_vaccine_theory_and.html

      • kedwa30

        “His “report” was later retracted by the publisher of his paper.”

        Evidence of strong arm tactics to silence the hero, Robert Kennedy.
        Do you realize how many members of his family have been assassinated? You are among his family’s persecutors.
        How does it feel to be on the side of genocide? I suppose it feels good to someone like you who strongly endorses that stuff.

        Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

        Kennedy in October 2007

        Born
        Robert Francis Kennedy, Jr.

        January 17, 1954 (age 60)

        Washington, D.C., United States

        Nationality
        American

        Education
        Harvard University (B.A.)

        University of Virginia (J.D.)

        Pace University (LL.M.)

        Occupation
        Radio Host, Attorney, Environmental Activist

        Political party

        Democratic

        Religion
        Catholicism

        Spouse(s)
        Emily Ruth Black

        (1982–1994)

        Mary Kathleen Richardson

        (1994–2012)

        Cheryl Hines (2014–present)

        Children

        Robert Francis Kennedy III
        Kathleen Alexandra Kennedy
        Conor Richard Kennedy
        Kyra LeMoyne Kennedy
        William Finbar Kennedy
        Aiden Caohman Vieques Kennedy

        Parents
        Robert Francis Kennedy, Sr.

        Ethel Skakel

        • lilady R.N.

          He’s the poster boy for trading on his family’s name and a blithering, blathering idiot when it comes to vaccines.

          • kedwa30

            So you say. But the opinion of a genocidal troll doesn’t count for much.

          • Robert F Kennedy had no evidence supporting his assertion. And there is no mercury in vaccines you idiot.

          • kedwa30

            There is when there is Thiomersal in it, liar.

            Not all vaccines have it today because of the effectiveness of protests from heroes like Robert F Kennedy. But if you think it’s safe, feel free to crunch down on a few thermometers. OH WAIT! Few thermometers have Hg in them these days. Huh.

          • Thiomersal is NOT mercury dumbass. It is a compound of mercury in a bond with an ethyl group.

            By your stupidity, NaCl is pure sodium. Thus consumption would cause us to combust. I can’t seem to find many cases of table salt causing combustion.

            You really need to improve upon your first grade chemistry knowledge. Sad really how pathetically dull you are.

          • kedwa30

            Your claim that there is no mercury in vaccines is debunked by the fact that a mercury containing compound does have mercury in it. You are an idiot to say that a compound of mercury doesn’t have mercury in it.

            “By your stupidity, NaCl is pure sodium.”
            Nope. That is your strawman. All you have shown is that you can tear down your strawman as quickly as you build it.
            Thiomersal contains mercury and thus there is mercury in vaccines that contain thiomersal.

            You’re supposed to be upholding the fight against pseudo science and yet your arguments are pseudo-scientific. You’re a fraud that is damaging the image of science. You make science look like a religion.

          • Robert Jory

            Apples contain amygdalin, pears contain formaldehyde, potatoes contain solanin, cucumbers contain cucurbitacin e, which are all poisons. Those occur naturally but they don’t kill you or cause autism. Where is your evidence that mercury, in the form of thiomersal, causes autism?

            Enjoy this video with an actual doctor.

          • kedwa30

            An actual doctor killed a 13 year old girl when he performed an illegal surgery on her. Don’t expect me to be awed by your attempt at appeal to authority.
            Your ignorance of the evidence says more about you. I posted a link to an actual scientific study that showed that thiomersal breaks down into elemental mercury, a potent and long lasting neurotoxin. If you want to pretend you didn’t see that, then that says more about you. If you don’t understand the significance, again, that says more about you.

          • Robert Jory

            Really? Then that means everyone who has had a vaccine should be dead. Are they? Nope. Your “scientific study” must be able as reliable as Fox News.

          • Payze Dues

            Doctors are the 4th leading cause of death in ‘Murica, Einstein. Wait until the NEW generation of doctors is fully ensconced and ObamaCare is fully implemented. WoooHooooo

          • Robert Jory

            Do you have a source for that information?

            Here’s what I found:

            http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php

            http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

            http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/

            Where in any of those does it say “doctors”? Or are you just being a troll?

          • Payze Dues

            Looks like I was wrong. Conventional medicine is the THIRD leading cause of death in ‘murica. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/07/30/doctors-death-part-one.aspx I believe they are THE leading cause of death in ‘murica but i haven’t yet sought to prove it myself. 225 thousand annual deaths (conservatively) due to iatrogenic actions. “Troll” ? are you a parrot? I hear everyone throwing this word around lately. Btw, citing CDC (known, demonstrable liars) further bolsters my suspicion of your inability of critical thinking, as these agencies are all beholden to same poppycock orthodoxies. Get a grip, junior.

          • Robert Jory

            So 225 thousand deaths per year. Now find the study that shows how many lives are saved by doctors and modern medicine. And then I’d like to hear your solution to the problem of the deaths that are happening. If you can’t, then go back to stroking your ego. Where would you go if you or a family member broke a limb, or had a seizure, or a heart attack? I’m guessing a hospital.

          • Payze Dues

            Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, junior. The fact that 225 thousand are killed by iatrogenesis (again that is conservative, the number could be as high as 440k) cannot be reconciled by lives they presumably ‘save’. Your conflation and “reasoning” is again amusing and very illustrative of the kind of MORON with which I am dealing. Have a nice day, moron.

          • Robert Jory

            All I’ve seen you tote so far is one article in a journal and a lot of ad hominems. If all you can do is insult people then you’re not worth conversing with.

          • Spencer James Smith

            ya you are right, i would go to the hospital. the devil is smart. so are other people that are corrupt, and they work together. whats deceiving is that the corruption isnt black and white, the infiltration levels are not black and white. there is so many little exceptions to the rule that it takes some time to figure out and believe. but once you see it, it is obvious.

          • Spencer James Smith

            treatments for broken limbs and heart attacks have seemed to work good enough. i dont have another solution myself to remedy those problems. so yes i will go to the hospital. and there arent whistle blowers and doctors saying that treatment for heart attack and broken limbs is a fraud. so i will go to a hospital if any of those things occurs.

          • Avery

            So let me get this straight. Only an idiot cites the CDC, but citing Mercola is OK?
            You are truly ridiculous.

          • Payze Dues

            This is all admitted/public information. You’re not going to find it on CDC/government websites (which publish blatant propaganda and PROVEN lies intended for the profane) Only an ignoramus and/or an idiot cites the CDC, et al. Ignorance is no excuse these days so you have to be a (perhaps educated) moron.

          • Avery

            ” Only an ignoramus and/or an idiot cites the CDC, et al. ”

            ROTFLMAO!
            You are deluded.

          • Payze Dues

            It’s called “Iatrogenesis”, and when they’re not KILLING people with the drugs they’re given by the pharmaceutical companies that write their textbooks, they are misdiagnosing people with cancer, etc so they can buy the new Maserati they wanted. http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2014/09/18/doctor-admits-to-deplorable-fraud-scheme-involving-fake-cancer-diagnoses

            People like you amuse me.

          • Payze Dues

            That someone cites the CDC is just making me chuckle. The former CDC director now has a top position at MERCK! It’s like referring to a NAMBLA newsletter regarding the ‘innocuous nature of pedophilia’.

          • Spencer James Smith

            im glad that you arent the best at debating and finding good sources. because then it doesnt stress me out as much, i dont have to take you as seriously. skeptical raptor has justification and ignorance down to an art. it is kind of impressive. but i have seen others that have done it better. not sure what his motives are. dont know if he is a shill, mind controlled, or has a financial motive. not sure if he completely believes it either. if he doesnt, he is a good liar.

          • kedwa30

            You said “Really? Then that means everyone who has had a vaccine should be dead.”
            Nope. That you would jump to that conclusion is yet more demonstration of your extremist thinking. I think the Department of Homeland Security should keep an eye on you. Extremists are kin to radical homegrown terrorists.

            What was that you said earlier how you hadn’t had a flu shot and yet you are around kids? Aren’t you the least bit concerned you might hurt the kids with your lack of immunity to new viruses? You are a danger to kids! I’m turning you in to the DHS. You will lose your job and get put on a list of people who are not allowed around kids for recklessly endangering their welfare. Shame on you!

          • Robert Jory

            Homegrown terrorist? Now who’s using extreme thinking?

            I am not a danger to the kids because I’ve had all the required vaccines to be at a school ever since I was a child. http://eziz.org/assets/docs/IMM-231.pdf
            We are also tested for TB every four years. But you sound more like a troll than wanting to have a serious conversation so I’ll just ignore you from now on.

          • kedwa30

            If everyone that disagrees with you sounds like a troll and you ignore everyone that sounds like a troll, then you’ll never have to admit that you’re wrong. Ignorance is bliss.

          • Spencer James Smith

            lucky you. how scientific is that conclusion. robert jory, one person that wasnt afflicted by vaccines. and i know there are others that havent been as well. but you cant base a proper conclusion on the effects of one person.

          • Robert Jory

            I have to also point out that your comment makes no valid points. A doctor killed a 13 year old in an illegal surgery? All doctors must be evil! Same as a priest fucking a little boy must mean all priests are evil! Or a black person stealing a car must mean they are all thieves! See your stupid logic?

            Also, getting information from an actual doctor is not an appeal to authority, it’s getting an expert opinion. You should try it some time.

          • kedwa30

            That the point flew right over your head says more about you. You say: “A doctor killed a 13 year old in an illegal surgery? All doctors must be evil!”

            If you draw that conclusion from that, then that infers that you are one of those extremist thinkers. The point I was making, let me see if I can dumb it down enough for you, is that a doctor isn’t right just for being a doctor. Can you understand that? Or do I need to explain it using baby talk?

          • Payze Dues

            This person’s “logic” is quite revealing of their stupidity and tendency toward confirmation bias. It’s hilarious.

          • Payze Dues

            And apricot pits contain arsenic. Substances occurring in nature cannot be compared to synthetic substances. For instance, the “arsenic” in apricot pits have additional molecules attached to the arsenic that render it harmless. No different with the other foods you mention. I get a kick out of you people who insist injecting FOREIGN SUBSTANCES into your childrens’ (and your own (HAVE AT IT asshole)) bodies is a cool thing to do. That ilk are quite often just plain, educated idiots. Enjoy your mercury.

          • Robert Jory

            Do you have any idea how many children have been saved because of vaccines? Even if there is a minor risk, which I’ve yet to see evidence and all the studies show there is very little other than allergic reaction, they are still saving hundreds if not thousands more times as many children as they harm. Would you rather your child have polio?

            It also sounds like you’re saying mercury is man made. You do know mercury can be found in volcanic ash, fossil fuels, forest fires and naturally occurring metals, right? Are you as much against driving cars that use fossil fuels as you are against using vaccines? I doubt it. Enjoy your mercury as well!

          • Payze Dues

            Saved? you’re delusional, or willfully ignorant. And you had to go and cite the almighty “polio vaccine”. You’re a MYTH PEDDLER. The polio “vaccine” is the largest cause of polio in the WORLD. You are a fucking moron. Sprinkle thimerosal on your morning oatmeal. And no, doctors are generally not to be trusted. Just because someone cites a “doctor” who agrees with them means nothing. The live polio vax is responsible for at least HALF of the annual 55k non Hodgkin’s. It’s caused an outbreak of brain bone and lung cancer. Part of me LOVES the fact you lie to give you and your family mercury and SV-40. Fuckoff moron.

          • Robert Jory

            So now vaccines cause autism and cancer? Not going to argue with an idiot. Stop listening to Jenny McCarthy, she’s not a medical professional.

          • Payze Dues

            That you’re unaware of the absolute FRAUD concerning the mighty “Polio vaccine” speaks to the level of ignorance that afflicts you. Too bad there isn’t a vaccine for willful stupidity. .

          • Spencer James Smith

            nice come back, except that fortunately there are scientists that are saying it as well, not just jenny mccarthy.

          • David Miller

            “Reports of a sarcoma developing at the site of vaccine injection sites in some animals have led to the suspicion of a link between the vaccine and a disposition in some animals to this type of reaction. Most types of injectable vaccine and non-vaccine products have rarely been associated with sarcoma development in cats, but cats may develop a site specific sarcoma following rabies vaccination or feline leukemia virus vaccination.
            These tumors are characterized as highly invasive, rapidly growing, and malignant. Metastatic (spreading) rates are reported to be 22.5 to 24 percent. Often, the cancer spreads to the lungs, but it may spread to the regional lymph nodes and to the skin as well.”

            Animals can get cancer from vaccination. Maybe we can too.

          • Robert Jory

            Looked it up and sounds like it’s caused by the rabies vaccine. People don’t usually end up with tumors where they get vaccinated so long as you aren’t getting rabies vaccine you should be good.

          • Robert Jory

            It’s kind of sad and kind of funny that some nobody thinks he knows better than people who devote their lives to studying this and saving lives. When you break a bone or have a real bad illness I suppose you don’t go to doctors, right? Since you don’t trust them. I suppose you can’t trust mechanics to fix your car, either. Can’t trust the food industry so you must grow your own food, too? You’re nothing but a conspiracy theorist and a nutjob. I’d say enjoy your life but you’re probably too stressed out about all the evil people out to get you and your family.

          • Spencer James Smith

            what is not sad, but is kind of funny is he doesnt need a phd, neither do i. might not ever get one. by i am intelligent, i am good at problem solving, and me experiences allow me to be open to the fact that i cant necessarily trust government and health care. all you need to do is compare what people that do have phds are saying. what motive do the CDC whistle blowers have for doing what they did? they lose their job and get humiliated. and they have the education and qualifications to understand a legitimate study. one of the whistle blowers said his boss has been telling him to lie about the efficacy rate of the MMR since 1990. he came out and now said he has stopped lying. why would he jeopardize his life to tell a lie? now every single doctor or scientist that speaks up is suddenly a quack, crazy, or an idiot. well they werent called that before they came out publicly with what they knew was going on were they? so then case in point. they are not crazy or an idiot, unless they were labeled that before they came out with what they said. he is right about the polio vaccine. its very easy to make it look simple. that polio was a huge problem and that the vaccine wiped it out. these doctors and nurses and whistle blowers have some things in common. they have integrity, and they have an open mind which doesnt shield their mind against the possibility of a conspiracy.

          • Niegol

            SV-40 was in the 60s…
            Seems you are still living there.

          • Payze Dues

            Neither safe NOR effective. Anyone who believes that is an absolute idiot. NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE EXISTS vaccines are effective and there is a MOUNTAIN of evidence that show they are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Enjoy, goy.

          • Robert Jory

            What evidence is there that they don’t work? Do you think everyone suddenly just became immune to those diseases? And what about now, when the anti-vaxers are out in force and suddenly those same diseases are making a come back? You couldn’t see the evidence they work if it was right in front of you.

          • Andrew Stephens

            108 DEATHS OF CHILDREN since 2005 from the measles vaccination ALONE is a “minor risk”? Was that a Freudian Slip or what?

          • Robert Jory

            Source?

          • How much you want to bet he’s used VAERS dumpster diving data? LOL

          • Niegol

            How many people died of measles each year before vaccination started?

            In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally (thats after widespread but not 100% vaccination)

            In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.

            See:
            http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

            Bottom line, we saved vast numbers of kids by vaccinating them, but there is still work to be done to get to the 100% mark.
            But I wonder if you consider spreading disinformation which causes parents not to vaccinate their kids and (as the WHO facts above show) increase the risk to their children tenfold a minor risk? Or a slip? Or what?
            You, sir, are endangering thousands of children’s lives by your uninformed posting. Please rethink your motivations and do your research before you spread these dangerous rumours.

          • Avery

            “108 DEATHS OF CHILDREN since 2005 from the measles vaccination ALONE”

            Citation needed.

          • Avery

            “Substances occurring in nature cannot be compared to synthetic substances.”

            That is a ridiculous assertion.

          • Payze Dues

            Oh, my. He’s a “doctor”. This guy’s a doctor too, you fucking idiot. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-149538/Womans-shock-doctor-rape-ordeal.html

          • Robert Jory

            Was there a point to that comment? Or are you saying one doctor raping a woman means all doctors are not to be trusted? And you call me an idiot…

          • Payze Dues

            Have you gotten your “FLULAVAL”? Bwhahahah
            it reads:
            “No controlled trials demonstrating a decrease in influenza”
            WELL DUUUUH
            That should be on everything and anything that comes from giant drug peddlers that is intended to be injected into the arms of poor idiots. Wouldn’t matter. You’d still get them. Hell, they could write “you’re just our guinea pig” on the inserts. You’d still get them.

          • Robert Jory

            I actually don’t get the flu shot every year. After working at a school for 10 years my immune system is pretty strong. I’ve only taken a handful of sick days since I’ve been working. I did, however, get all of my vaccines as a baby and had no ill effects from them. I’ve also never had polio, measles, mumps or whooping cough.

          • Andrew Stephens

            The good news is that the only vaccines that children get containing thimerosal are the multi-dose flu vax.

            According to the CDC there was a campaign to REMOVE AS MUCH MERCURY AS POSSIBLE FROM VACCINES. They say there was no KNOWN issues with the thimerosal, but the Gov. decided to make a conscience effort to remove it from all child vaccines in 2001.

            1Kind of makes you wonder…if there was nothing wrong with it, why the efforts? PS. Adults are simply screwed…get the flu AND mercury all in one trip to your local clinic or pharmacy.

          • Guest

            It’s “Thimerosal”. You can’t even spell the fucking word, moron. What does “Thimerosal is a MERCURY-CONTAINING…” You’re a fucking idiot or a fool;.

          • Payze Dues

            It’s “Thimerosal”. You can’t even spell the fucking word, moron. What does “Thimerosal is a MERCURY-CONTAINING…” You’re a fucking liar or a fool

          • kedwa30

            So you assert, once again failing to provide any kind of supporting evidence for your claims. Easily dismissed as the ravings of a madman.

            I have already debunked your claim of no mercury in thimerosal. Your unsupported claim was easily dismissed, and yet I have gone beyond that to utterly debunk it.

            “Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound (an
            organomercurial). Since the 1930s, it has been widely used as a
            preservative in a number of biological and drug products, including many
            vaccines, to help prevent potentially life threatening contamination
            with harmful microbes. Over the past several years, because of an
            increasing awareness of the theoretical potential for neurotoxicity of
            even low levels of organomercurials and because of the increased number
            of thimerosal containing vaccines that had been added to the infant
            immunization schedule, concerns about the use of thimerosal in vaccines
            and other products have been raised. Indeed, because of these concerns,
            the Food and Drug Administration has worked with, and continues to work
            with, vaccine manufacturers to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from
            vaccines.”
            http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

          • D Titus

            How can they provide any evidence when they do not have any? They just keep calling us names. We have them so busted. This is a lot of fun for me. I love the truth and what it does to the insane.

          • Payze Dues

            Anyone who subscribes to this pablum is an abject moron. And I’m sure you’ve got hoards of them.

          • Andrew Stephens

            http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228. It is apparent that the author of this blog has a bias and his bias is not based on some profound understanding of vaccinations…that much is quite obvious.

          • John Richards

            There certainly used to be a form of it, and at my child’s booster-shot about 8 years ago we confirmed that they were using a formulation that contained thimerosal, despite our request to use an available formulation that excluded it, so we rescheduled for when they could provide the formulation we asked for.

            I’m very pro-vaccine, but despite the public and private benefits, individual risks with vaccines certainly exist, and it makes sense to minimize that risk when dosing your children.

            I believe Flu and Tetanus shots still use thimerosal, along with a few other vaccines, but it is mostly eliminated, and it is not in any formulations given to those under 6 years old (that may have since been updated.)

          • Chris

            There is 25,000 parts per billion mercury in the H1N1 vaccine. The CDC recommends infants as young as 6 months old and pregnant women (with developing embryos) get the flu shot.

          • Spencer James Smith

            except for the flu vaccine, and the aluminum is just as or more harmful than the mercury. they first had the mercury in the vaccines, and it took people with balls and integrity to stand up to the man so that they would take out the mercury. and its going to take people with an open mind and balls, to get rid of these poisonous/not as effective as they say vaccines as well, and this entire web of corruption and lies. i am glad for robert kennedy. you dont need a science degree to see corruption, a conflict of interest and things not adding up. he has the blood in him of people that speak truth and then get killed for it like JFK.

      • D Titus

        If this article was not true, then he would be forced to remove it from his site. That would take a simple court order which would require a
        discovery process.
        And discovery is exactly what these child poisoners are going to great lengths to avoid.

        “The lack of transparency is a huge political advantage.”
        https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+gruber

        “The CDC now says it has ”lost” the data that supported the crucial study and has persistently defied congressional requests and federal law requiring it to open up the federal Vaccine Safety Database to scientists and the public.”

        The cdc is in violation of the law, not Robert F Kennedy Jr.

        Again attacking the messenger and not the message. Means you lost the debate. THX
        debate. Mercury is in vaccines and has been for decades. Even
        the criminal cdc admits to that.

      • D Titus

        If you can prove to me that never has any persons or organizations paid to get falsely favorable results or propaganda in this country, then I will believe ever study you suggest or alert me to. Until that day, how was this study funded, locations of study and who were the participants? THX

      • D Titus

        What proof do you have of this please.

        “His “report” was later retracted by the publisher of his paper.”
        THX

      • kedwa30

        Using a blogger as support for the assertions of another blogger is like quoting the bible to prove the bible. You are promoting a religious belief. Your methods are fallacious pseudo-science religious indoctrination. You wield the word ‘science’ like it’s some sort of infallible authority like a bible or a god.
        “Science bloggers” must be in your mind, some measure more authoritarian than mere bloggers. What is a Forbes Science blogger, in your mind? What is a science blogger/science journalist? Is that something better than a Inquirer Journalist or an internet blogger?

        It’s really funny how in one post you might dismiss youtube testimonials of individuals sharing their own experience (empirical knowledge)
        yet in this post you turn to opinion blogs as your only supporting evidence. You hypocrite! Confess that you only have a religious belief in the assertions you make. Your faith is only evidence of your faith. That others have faith as you do is only evidence that you all have an organized religion.

  • D Titus

    Proof of mercury being in vaccines.
    Proof mercury causes autism.
    Proof the companies making thimerosal do not want their child to be vaccinated.
    Proof the companies making thimerosal want to hide this evidence.
    STOP TRUSTING LIARS!
    It’s all over for you guys here today. I have busted all of you now.

    Note that Robert F Kennedy Jr has not been sued or forced to remove this facts from his web site.
    http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/articles.html

    Robert F Kennedy Jr is on my side. Mercury poisoning in children is being done by vaccines.

    Story over!

    • lilady R.N.

      Story over for Robert Kennedy, who attempted to use his family’s position to strong-arm members of Congress and to gain support for his junk science.

      • kedwa30

        How dare you defame the good Kennedy name. I slap you with a fish.

    • Not peer reviewed. On the other hand, we have boatloads of evidence that there is no mercury in vaccines. Never has been.

      So there’s that problem.

      Oh you’re conflating ethyl-mercury, an inert substance, with elemental mercury, a dangerous element? Well, I could teach you how they differ, but you’d need an open mind, basic knowledge of biochemistry, and an intellect that was somewhat above my cat’s.

      • kedwa30

        I dare you to drink eight ounces of ethyl-mercury to prove it is inert.

        If it was inert, then it wouldn’t be any use as a preservative for killing fungus and bacteria. Either you have no idea what ‘inert’ means or you are being dishonest. Either way doesn’t bode well for you.

        • Well, OK. Depends on the concentration. And there is a toxic level that I wouldn’t want to exceed. See, most compounds, including oxygen and water have toxicity levels that can kill. Bet you didn’t know that? Oh wait. You’re an ignorant fool, so how could someone with a 3rd grade education understand that.

          • kedwa30

            You can dilute it with as much water as you like so long as you drink it all in one sitting. That’s 8 ounces of 100% plus as much additional water as you like.
            This isn’t fluoride. If it’s neutral as you say, then what’s your problem? It’s liquid at room temperature; not like drinking liquid nitrogen.

            Come on, this isn’t elemental mercury. It’s already diluted by the other elements in the compound. Water can be ‘toxic’ as you claim when you drink gallons of it, but no one has ever gotten toxic shock from drinking 8 ounces of water. If this compound was as safe as you claim then you should be able to swallow 8 ounces and survive. It’s not as if you’re injecting it into your brain!!!

          • You’re not very intelligent are you? Too much organic food perchance?

            The mercury isn’t “diluted” by other elements you dumbass. Is it is ionically bound to an ethyl group. It is no more “mercury” than elemental sodium is in table salt.

            How can someone so ignorant and ill-educated as yourself pretend to be able to participate in a scientific conversation. Aren’t you worried that you’ll kill your children from vaccine preventable diseases with your stupidity?

            Go away troll.

          • kedwa30

            I can see that every point I make is going to go wayyyy over your head. So what happens when the ethyl group breaks down leaving behind the elemental mercury in your tissue? Anyway, like I said, if you think it’s harmless, then why not take the challenge? We are still waiting for you to grow a pair of balls.

          • kedwa30

            C’mon, like you said, you’re not really consuming mercury since it is only a mercury containing compound, so you won’t feel a thing. I want to see you drink 8 ounces of this crap so badly.

          • kedwa30

            Still thinking about it? Come on, it’s harmless, right? You can dilute it with as much water and spread it out over 80 days if you like. Take the challenge. Consume a total of a mere 8 ounces of this so called harmless ethylmercury. Do it for science! Do it for your pride! Don’t chicken out. You have no idea how many people are waiting to see the results. Be sure to talk this over with a doctor before trying it. We want to make sure you’re healthy enough to do it. Maybe you need a reasonable accommodation? Be sure to get it on film. This is going to be good.

            Dilute it with as much water as you like, but careful. Too much water can be toxic!!!

        • Mike Stevens

          Why 8 ounces?

          • kedwa30

            No particular reason. I’d settle for more or less. I understand it is heavier than water and so it is not even a cup, as far as volume goes. It’s an arbitrary suggestion. If it was indeed inert, then he should have no troubles after consuming a reasonable quantity. I did not want him to weasel his way out of it by arguing it was too expensive or too foul tasting. Surely he can swallow such a small quantity. It’s maybe a gulp or two. How much poison did Socrates swallow of his own volition just so he could avoid leaving his community? If Estupido Raptor wants to kill himself rather than admit he is wrong, he may certainly do so. I don’t believe it will kill him… but it will affect him in such a way that he will understand it is not inert.

          • Mike Stevens

            Well 8 ounces is approximately 10,000 times the amount in a flu vaccine shot.
            You may not realise it, but chemically “inert” does not mean never “toxic” – the quantity is still relevant, and inert substances can still act as toxicants (the correct term) in high enough amounts.

            Tell you what…silica is “inert”.
            People can be exposed and safely tolerate silica in doses of around a few grams with no consequences.

            I will ingest 8 ounces of ethylmercury in one sitting, if you likewise ingest 50,000 grams of silica.

          • kedwa30

            If both are inert, then why must I ingest the larger quantity? Let equals be equal. Eight ounces is 226.796 grams. Eight ounces of silica is 10,000 times the amount of ethylmercury in a flu vaccine shot is it not?

          • Mike Stevens

            You want me to ingest 10,000 times the amount of ethylmercury usually given in a flu shot, so I want you to ingest 10,000 times the amount of silica ingested by a kid playing in a sand pit.
            Fair’s fair.

          • kedwa30

            The post was not directed at you; it was directed at Estupido Raptor. You jumped in. You want some of this? Fine. Apparently you too are asserting that ethylmercury is inert and harmless period, since that is what the OP was asserting. Granted that water in such large quantities as can overload the stomach can be harmful. Therefore, it is you making the mistake thinking that a person can ingest fifty thousand grams of silica without his stomach exploding. Let’s do an apples to apples comparison. I chose a quantity that took into consideration the size of the stomach and selected a somewhat arbitrary yet reasonable quantity. If you are saying that ethyl mercury is as harmless as silica, then why not use the same quantities in the challenge? If you are conceding that ethyl mercury is in fact harmful in reasonable to ingest quantities, then well conceded.

            You lose.

          • Mike Stevens

            “You lose”

            ROFLMAO

          • kedwa30

            You have made my point that the OP has no clue of the true meaning of ‘inert’.

          • Mike Stevens

            And you have neatly revealed your ignorance of concentrations and quantities.

          • kedwa30

            No, you have revealed that you do not understand what I said. Perhaps I am a bad communicator. Nevertheless, my point has been made.

          • kedwa30

            You are desperate to paint me as an idiot of some kind because you cannot touch the issue that ethylmercury is in fact harmful. Your desperation to use ad hominem demonstrates that you know you are being dishonest about ethyl mercury. You haven’t provided any supporting evidence that ethylmercury doesn’t break down in the body leaving behind elemental mercury. You know that it does. You would refuse to consume a mere 8 ounces of ethylmercury because you know it would put you in the mental hospital. Admitting that it is harmful is the first step. Admitting it is also harmful in small quantities is the second step. Show me any peer reviewed study that concludes ethylmercury has no effect on anything at the quantities used in a dose of flu vaccine.

            You cannot, because you know it kills bacteria and fungus at that concentration. It also kills brain cells and interferes with cellular processes as a simple lab experiment can show.

          • Mike Stevens

            FYI, an “ad hominem” is where someone wishes to discredit the argument put forward by another through attacking some aspect of his character, rather than countering his argument.

            I never mentioned the term idiot – you did.
            If I said “Kedwa is talking rubbish because he is an idiot” that would count as an ad hominem. You note I have never said this (being content to let you reveal your own ignorance all by yourself).

            If I said “Kedwa is an idiot because he cannot tell the difference between a quantity and a concentration” that would be an appropriate conclusion given the evidence displayed, and not an ad hominem.
            But note, I never actually said that either…

          • kedwa30

            If you can prove that you are not Estupido Raptor incognito, then I will concede. As it is, you cannot. My assertions stand. You constantly belittle others, calling them idiot. That you may not have done so under this pseudonym means nothing.
            You come on here and jump on me without making any comment to any other people and yet you expect me to believe you’re not another fake account? Prove it.

            Evidence that you are Estupido Raptor includes the fact that I made a challenge to Estupido Raptor to ingest eight ounces of ethylmercury, and did not challenge you to do so, and yet, in a post to me, you state: “You want me to ingest 10,000 times the amount of ethylmercury usually given in a flu shot, so I want you to ingest 10,000 times the amount of silica ingested by a kid playing in a sand pit.”

            You’ve given yourself away, Estupido Raptor.
            Other evidence that you are Estupido Raptor includes the fact that you do not support your assertions with any kind of evidence. If you are two different people, then you are a lot alike. Just as lazy, irrational, and arrogant.

            For the record, I never said that you said I was an idiot. My exact words were “you are desperate to paint me as an idiot of some kind….”
            The point is, you refuse to discuss the issue of vaccines. You continue to attempt to derail discussion using eristics and personal attacks. What do you think is the most important bit of information: that I may have used a term “ad hominem” improperly or that you failed to address a study I cited that shows that ethylmercury breaks down into elemental mercury in the body?
            Clearly you think the proper use of ‘ad hominem’ is more important than discussing peer reviewed studies.
            That says a lot about you, but doesn’t help people to live healthier lives.

          • Mike Stevens

            I wish I were skeptical raptor. I greatly admire his blog.
            I did enter into this discussion and engage with you after wondering why you specifically chose a quantity of 8 ounces for Raptor to ingest. I then offered to do that same thing, if you would ingest an proportionately as large quantity of silica (which you backed away from, pronto). That’s why I started to use the pronoun “I” later in the responses.

            PS: Strange to hear someone with the nym “Kedwa30” moaning that “Mike Stevens” is a pseudonym….

          • No more feeding the troll, Stevens-san. You’re falling into the same trap I did.

          • Mike Stevens

            but….but…he/they are just so cute…

          • Let them starve. Picture Gizmo. Remember what happened when he got wet? Now imagine that on acid…

          • Sara Lucy

            This is the same problem I have. I’m such a softie.

          • kedwa30

            What trap? You mean losing? Yes, you both lost.

          • kedwa30

            Get you own blog. You can be an idiot blogger too. It’s not hard, apparently.

            You did enter into this discussion and you chose to accept the challenge on the condition that I do the impossible, demonstrating your intent to obfuscate and confuse the issue. The issue is whether or not ethylmercury is safe to ingest. You brought up that I should ingest 50,000 grams of silica, which is not a safe quantity. You apparently don’t understand that which you accuse me of not understanding.
            No one has ever experienced toxic shock from drinking 8 ounces of water, and I would have no trouble consuming 8 ounces of silica despite the fact it is not liquid, so hardly an apples to apples comparison. Will you consume 8 ounces of ethylmercury to prove it is as safe as water?
            Why not? I’m not asking you to inject it. What is the ld50 for silica?Silica: LD50 oral rat >22,500 mg/kg.

            Why did you choose 50,000 grams?

            What is the LD50 for ethylmercury?
            My point has been made. It is not harmless.

            Oh, but perhaps a peer reviewed study will help drive home my point:

            D.A. Geier , P.G. King & M.R. Geier (2009) Mitochondrial dysfunction, impaired oxidative-reduction activity, degeneration, and death in human neuronal and fetal cells induced by low-level exposure to thimerosal and other metal compounds, Toxicological & Environmental Chemistry, 91:4, 735-749, DOI:
            10.1080/02772240802246458

          • kedwa30

            Get you own blog. You can be an idiot blogger too. It’s not hard, apparently.

            You did enter into this discussion and you volunteered to accept the challenge on an unreasonable condition, demonstrating your intent to obfuscate and confuse the issue. The issue is whether or not ethylmercury is safe to ingest, not how much silica will give a person a stomach ache. You brought up that I should ingest
            50,000 grams of silica, which is not easy to swallow. You apparently don’t understand that which you accuse me of not understanding.
            No one has ever experienced toxic shock from drinking 8 ounces of water, and I would have no trouble consuming 8 ounces of silica despite the fact it is not liquid, so hardly an apples to apples comparison. Will you consume 8 ounces of ethylmercury to prove it is as safe as water? I will gladly drink 8 ounces of water.
            Why not? I’m not asking you to inject it.

            What is the ld50 for silica?

            Silica:

            oral rat >22,500 mg/kg.

            Why did you choose 50,000 grams?

            What is the LD50 for water?

            Water
            rat, oral
            > 90,000 mg/kg

            What is the LD50 for ethylmercury?
            My point has been made. It is not harmless, which is what Estupido Raptor was implying.

            Mercury selenide is considered inert.

            “HgSe is non-toxic so long as it is not ingested due to its insolubility. Toxic hydrogen selenide
            fumes can be evolved on exposure to acids. HgSe is a relatively stable compound which might mean that it is less toxic than elemental mercury or many organometallic mercury compounds. Selenium’s ability to complex with mercury has been proposed as a reason for the lack of mercury toxicity in deep sea fish despite high mercury levels.[1]

            Oh, but perhaps a peer reviewed study will help drive home my point:

            D.A. Geier , P.G. King & M.R. Geier (2009) Mitochondrial
            dysfunction, impaired oxidative-reduction activity, degeneration, and
            death in human neuronal and fetal cells induced by low-level exposure to
            thimerosal and other metal compounds, Toxicological & Environmental
            Chemistry, 91:4, 735-749, DOI:
            10.1080/02772240802246458

          • kedwa30

            I’ve thought it over, and I will agree to a compromise. I will consume 50,000 grams of silica over the course of 80 days if you will consume 8 ounces of ethyl mercury over the same course of 80 days. You can divide it and dilute it as much as you like so long as you consume all 8 ounces within 80 days.

          • D Titus

            How do we know that you are not skeptical raptor? How could we prove who you are? It does not mater who you are, only what the truth is. 2.8 billion paid to those injured by vaccines PROVES A BUNCH! Whether you want to believe it or not does not change the fact.

          • D Titus

            Yes thx for helping us prove that mercury is a poisonous element. Merry Christmas.

          • CedarRapids

            So is chocolate if you eat enough of it.

          • D Titus

            No chocolate is not poisonous. Unless it is vaccinated with a gates vaccine. Now if you eat too much, you will overdose. Unlike a drug you will mostly likely get diarrhea instead of becoming unconscious and dying as with a heroin overdose. Eating too much or overdosing is just a simple mater of taking in more than your body’s systems can handle. kedwa30 was posting that mercury was not poisonous. Which of course is an insane thought. I just wanted to defend the truth. What do you have to post to kedwa30?

          • CedarRapids

            Chocolate contains theobromine. Known to be deadly to animals in small doses and to humans in larger doses.

          • D Titus

            Hello and thanks for the info. Theobromine is deadly to some animals like nearly if not all forms of dogs. Wolf, cayotes and domestic. But it is not so to humans. Interesting it is also in Heroiin., and cocaine, but much higher levels in these drugs. I did not know that, thanks for enlighting me. But again you cannot die from eating too much chocolate unless you really try hard. You will most likely get diarrhea or worse case vomit it out. You would have to continue to eat even after diarrhea which would be hard to do. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are much easier ways to go. It is not poisonous any more than water is poisonous. If you drink too much water or (over dose on water). Which simply means that you consumed more than your body can handle then you will drown without even getting your face in water. Your body has ways of stopping you from doing these things, like sickness. Making you feel so bad that you stop before it becomes too much. It is much easier to overdose on drugs than chocolate. No poison though. You are incorrect. MERCURY HOWEVER IS A POISON AND IT IS IN VACCINES. So stop poisoning your children. Hope you have a wonderful weekend.

      • D Titus

        Bla Bla Bla mr no proof.
        Hey you can only post stuff that we approve, do you know who we are? You know the people who are being paid to promote lies. So if your facts are not going to support our position on skepraptor, then we don’t like them. Ha Ha nanny nanny no no.
        Yes, I understand how minds like yours work. Sorry that I keep bring up the truth to bust you. I guess your bosses are starting to cut your paid now aren’t they.

        • Spencer James Smith

          The first case of autism occurred in 1943 in America, twelve years after a mercury-containing preservative, thimerosal, was added to the whooping cough (pertussis) vaccine. In the 1950s, with only four recommended vaccines, the incidence of autism was 1 in 10,000 children.

          As more vaccines were recommended, the incidence of autism increased dramatically. By 1981, children received 135 micrograms of mercury in vaccines. The incidence of autism increased to 1 in 2600 children. Children in 1996 received 246 micrograms of mercury in vaccines and the incidence of autism was about 1 in every 350 children.

          Today, 13 vaccines are recommended with varying numbers of booster shots. The number of shots ranges from 50 to over 100 in some areas. The incidence of autism now averages about 1 in every 150 children by some estimates and it is still increasing.

          In one study, children who receive vaccinations containing thimerosal have six times the amount of autism as those who received a vaccine free of thimerasol. Parents report to me that many cases of autism symptoms begin after a vaccination.

          • D Titus

            Thanks for agreeing with me. Glad you see that vaccines are dangerous.

          • Niegol

            Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in the U.S. by 2002, and the rate of autism diagnoses continued to increase.
            There is no link between the two. If one was causative agent for the other, the rate of autism would drop when the Thimerosal was removed. It didnt.

          • Avery
      • kedwa30

        The following excerpt is from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280369/


        However, the proportion of inorganic mercury in the brain was much higher in the thimerosal group (21–86% of total mercury) compared to the methylmercury group (6–10%). Brain concentrations of inorganic mercury were approximately twice as high in the thimerosal
        group compared to the methylmercury group. Inorganic mercury remains in the brain much longer than organic mercury, with an estimated half-life of more than a year. It’s not currently known whether inorganic mercury
        presents any risk to the developing brain.

        Given these findings, the researchers caution that risk assessments for thimerosal based on studies using blood mercury measurements may not be valid,
        depending on the design of the study. Further, the observed differences in distribution and breakdown of mercury compounds between exposed groups indicate that methylmercury is not a suitable model for thimerosal toxicity.

        The evidence shows that ethyl-mercury breaks down into elemental mercury inside the body. So there’s that problem.

      • Payze Dues

        I have several inserts that tell me otherwise. Mercury, aluminum… formaldehyde. Have a nice day moron.

        • No mercury. A baby gets more aluminum from breathing and breast milk than vaccines. And a baby produces more formaldehyde in typical biochemical reactions than could ever get from a vaccine.

          Have a nice day ignorant moron.

          • Payze Dues

            http://www.infowars.com/images/fluzone.jpg “we have boatloads of evidence that there is no mercury in vaccines. Never has been.” FUCK OFF, FRAUD.

          • Payze Dues

            “we have boatloads of evidence that there is no mercury in vaccines. Never has been.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flulaval-Influenza-Vaccine-Insert-600.jpg FUCK OFF, FRAUD

          • Spencer James Smith

            ah but that is not the same as the aluminum form that is in vaccines. and you are just going to ignore what payze dues says about mercury being on the insert? aluminum is in the vaccines as an adjuvant. it is not an adjuvant in breast milk. this is what causes it to accumulate. if it is eaten as not an adjuvant the body can cleanse it out of the system.

          • Niegol

            if its injected SC, it gets cleared faster than when ingested.

            amounts are vastly smaller as well.

            You seem to be intelligent, but it would be good if you’d get yourself that PhD you mentioned earlier before you continue to spread unsubstantiated rumours about very complex topics.

            Mercury (Thimerosal) has not been in childrens vaccines since 2002. No decrease of autism has been recorded.

          • Spencer James Smith

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9DkcpEEBPI . dr. blaylock on aluminum in vaccines, among other things.

        • Niegol

          You fucking idiot discussing matter which you are faaaar to stupid to even begin to comprehend.

          Let me try though…
          Your immune system needs two things to build up immunity:

          1) target (virus / bacterium etc). signals through antibodies and Fc receptors.

          2) danger signal. Normally things only found inside a cell, as their presence outside of cells would indicate that cells are being killed off, ergo something is wrong. Signals through TLR (Toll Like Receptors).

          Without Fc and TLR engagement, you will not build up memory immunity.

          In an actual infection, dying cells are the danger signal. In a vaccine, we (clever people, unlike you) decided not to go and kill a whole bunch of cells, but to add a chemical compound which simulates a danger signal. Its called an adjuvans and if you werent so busy making a retard out of yourself in public, its easy enough to find information about it. Yes, some of these contain chemicals which contain mercury, aluminium, etc. The amounts are far too low to harm you (in your case Id suggest the harm was most likely done due to a lack of oxygen or simply genes coding for a tiny brain), but just to please bigots like you, us scientists (you know, those people who’ve spent years learning about stuff before opening up their mouths about them, and therefore might actually know what they are talking about) are researching alternative adjuvans without metals.
          Mind you, they will most likely contain parts of bacteria, so Im sure you’ll find another bandwagon to jump on and spread your poisonous, uninformed nonsense.
          Have a lovely day now 😉

      • Spencer James Smith
      • Spencer James Smith

        Dr. Boyd Haley is the Chairman of the Chemistry Department at the University of Kentucky. He’s one of the nation’s leading experts on mercury poisoning and has studied Thimerosal in vaccines. Thimerosal “is one of the most toxic compounds I know of,” Haley said. “I can’t think of anything that I know of is more lethal.”

        Dr. Jane Siegel is a professor of pediatrics at UT Southwestern in Dallas. For the past five years, Siegel has sat on the government vaccine committee that decides which vaccines are mandatory for children.

        “I believe there is no data thus far that’s been looked at to prove that there’s a connection – that there’s a causitive relationship,” Siegel said.

        But just two years ago, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did conduct a study, which showed that three-month-old babies exposed to just 63 micrograms of mercury – less than half of the aforementioned pin top – were two-and-a-half times more likely to develop autism.

        The study is stamped “Confidential” and “Do Not Copy or Release.” Siegel says it was never made public because it was just a draft.

        “Until they’re final, and are ready for publication, they’re always considered a draft, not to be widely distributed,” Siegel said. “This preliminary information could be distributed, and that could do harm.” So why was it marked ‘Confidential, Do Not Release’, rather than a simple ‘Draft’?

        • Niegol

          As for your Dr Haley, he has been proven to have a monetary stake in demonising mercury:
          http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm216216.htm
          He runs a company marketing an untested and dangerous drug against “autism caused by mercury” and can therefore hardly be called objective. He has meanwhile received an FDA warning letter about his it.

          As for the mercury, the amount you mention is about the amount found in 1000 vaccines. You get more mercury in your system from eating fish once a week.

    • Payze Dues

      Story OVER. thank you.

    • Niegol

      Of course there are metals like Aluminium and mercury in vaccines! Its an essential part called an adjuvans. Its also in such a low dose and in a certain chemical bond that it does not harm you.

      The alternative (which I sort of hope you choose) is not to get vaccinated or to get a vaccine without adjuvans. The chance you get an infectious illness is vastly higher, and you’re more likely to experience the discomfort, disability or mortality (depending on which vaccines you skip) of the natural way.

      for more information:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunologic_adjuvant

      • D Titus

        Thanks for agreeing with me. Anything that requires the poisoning of children is a twisted system to begin with. Thanks for helping show what a bunch of liars the pro-vaccine people are. Great job!

        • Niegol

          Wow… what an extreme ignorance and lack of respect you display… You cant even read past my first sentence.
          I said the opposite of that, you know it, but are too pathetic to address any content. Instead you resort to trolling and lying. Thats how strong your arguments are. You have to deliberately misinterpret what you see, tie a blindfold across your own eyes to continue to believe in your version of the truth. All so you can accuse “evil scientists” who are trying to cure or prevent horrid illnesses of being liars…
          How do you sleep at night?

          • D Titus

            You agreed with me that their are poisons in the vaccines. THX. Several people on this form have stated that it was not true.

            So you aided me in my point. Poisoning children is not the answer to anything. Hope you had a nice weekend.

          • Niegol

            No I did absolutely not agree with that complete bunk you state. You display a lack of knowledge or reading skills and are equating two things which are not the same, simply because you cant be bothered to find out the difference or do not have the mental capacity to understand this difference.

            I presented you with the facts: “Its also in such a low dose and in a certain chemical bond that it does not harm you”

            Which part of ” it doesn’t harm you” are you finding too hard to understand? And although I sympathise with the fact that “chemical bonds” might be a term which is too hard for you to cope with, that does not excuse your opportunistic miss-representation of my words. Perhaps a dictionary or reading glasses might aid you in your endeavour to understand.

            If you want to go on an uneducated witch-hunt, have fun with that. But do not claim that I agree with the utter nonsense you write or that I claim things which I do and did not. You apparently need to resort to deliberate lies and fallacies. I do not need to stoop to that level and do not appreciate having my words twisted the way you are doing.

            I say again, I fully disagree with your point of view. Vaccines do NOT contain the types of poisons you claim they do. You are wrong and facts do NOT support your claims.

            Have a nice day.

          • D Titus

            So you are now taking back your post that there is mercury in vaccines, or you disagree that mercury is a poison? THX

  • kedwa30
    • Sara Lucy
      • kedwa30

        Aha, so you are Estupido Raptor incognito. I suspected as much.
        Or are you a zealous follower of this faux intellect?
        No matter. The fact that Estupido Raptor’s opinions are controverted by so many scientific studies demonstrates that Estupido Raptor is pushing pseudo-scientific harg warsh.
        This blog is pure propaganda in the war against people. If the enemy is the Berserkers, then you are “good life”. Ptooey.

        • Sara Lucy

          I am Skeptical Raptor because I can find links and paste them into a text box?

          • kedwa30

            No, because you answer a post that was directly challenging that person. If you are not this person, then why answer his challenge for him? Are you acting in proxy? Are you a devoted fan? Throwing a bunch of links to more mindless hack blogs at me is not an answer. I could just as easily spam my own links to any kind of propaganda I like. What would that accomplish? That is not civil discourse. When I ask Estupido Raptor what he thinks, I expect Estupido Raptor to answer with his personal opinion, not his lacky to spam me with promotional links to his other hack blogs.

          • You really need to be institutionalized and heavily medicated. Your paranoia is really frightening.

          • kedwa30

            Estupido Raptor said “You really need to be institutionalized and heavily medicated. Your paranoia is really frightening.”

            Is that your answer to my query “what is your take on this website”? http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/02/18/60-lab-studies-now-confirm-cancer-link-to-a-vaccine-you-probably-had-as-a-child/

            So, rather than discuss the evidence presented by this website which includes over sixty peer reviewed studies linking cancer to a vaccine, you would rather commit ad hominem. That says more about you. Good day.

          • Sara Lucy

            Why don’t you just read the links I provided? Skeptical Raptor has already written on this topic. If you’re familiar with the effort it takes to keep up with a blog as a hobby, then you’ll understand that most bloggers find it pointless to answer questions posed by random commenters who refuse to look at what the blogger has already written.

            Seriously nearly ALL of your objections in this thread have been addressed repeatedly by the very person you keep trying to engage.

          • kedwa30

            I don’t see why I should give his other bogus articles hits. Again and again I have posed the question: Why should I subject myself to propaganda? No one has yet to assert that the links they have provided were unbiased. If you won’t even claim that they are not propaganda, then what motivation other than being a doormat do I have to go subject myself to such torture?
            I’m not a captive audience. You cannot force or coerce me into believing your religion. I am giving Estupido Raptor the opportunity to make his case here. He has declined.
            How hard is it to copy/paste a relevant section here into the comments? I have done as much. I don’t demand you go on an internet scavanger hunt and watch hours of youtube testimonies. I haven’t been abusive calling you idiot etc. the way he has blown up like a madman at everyone that uses common sense. What is it about him that you love so much? You are a devoted fan sticking up for him when he won’t even defend his own assertions with any kind of support. He demands peer reviewed studies to debunk studies, but real science doesn’t work that way. If you want evidence, you will have to look at what is available. Limiting yourself to believe only the million dollar studies that the depopulationists pay for is clearly going to get you a biased view. You need to use common sense, logic, and your own research.
            Do you actually still believe Bill Gates’ assertion that better health care alone will result in a lowering of population growth?

            This is contrary not only to common sense, but thousands of years of historical fact.
            WAKE UP!

          • Sara Lucy

            I was trying to help you out, little troll.

          • kedwa30

            Please support your assertion with some kind of evidence. How is constantly belittling me, sticking up for a bully who is constantly belittling me, and spamming me with links to propaganda ‘helping’ me?
            Again and again, I ask for some kind of evidence. He and you, (the same person with many accounts?) both demand peer reviewed million dollar studies, yet refuse to support your assertions with actual evidence. The closest you have come is to spam me with links to more Estupido Raptor blogs.
            You should be able to see the circular logic in that!
            It’s simple propaganda 101. Create a blog saying some BS. Write a bunch of lengthy BS articles saying your opinion. When someone asks for evidence supporting your opinion, refer them to the BS blogs. How about that!
            Hey, just because he fooled you with it doesn’t mean I’m going to fall for it.
            What is your motivation to support someone who is such a bully? Are you his girlfriend or something? Maybe you’re his mom.

          • Guest

            “What you fail to realize is that your concept of ‘child bride’ being
            wrong is counter to their culture, thus you ARE doing what you say you
            are not in favor of especially doing.”

            Right. I make exceptions to cultural sensitivity whenever it involves abuse, which in this case impregnating a child who is twice as likely to suffer complications from pregnancy than a mature woman, is abuse especially when she’s traded like a slave to an older man to be wed. Underage girls are more likely to suffer obstetric fistulas (and accompanying stillbirth) when they give birth in places where c-sections are unavailable. This potentially means lifelong incontinence and an inability to carry another pregnancy, ever.

            I am also opposed to child prostitution and pedophilia, even where that may be a cultural norm.

          • Avery

            “You really need to be institutionalized and heavily medicated. Your paranoia is really frightening.” is not Ad Hominem.

            It does not reject a claim or argument you made. It only expresses opinions about you.

            “An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.”

            Source: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

            Oh, wait, does my pointing that out mean that I too am an imposter?

          • kedwa30

            There are multiple attempts at defining ad hominem and thus multiple definitions we can use. Your cherry picking one in particular does not make me wrong.

            Ad hominem is when name calling, insults, or some other irrational statements attacking someone in a discussion or debate are used as a substitute for logic. Basically, his feeling of being frightened was the only response, which shows that he did not have a rational response. His phobic feelings, which he attributed to his delusion that he was a doctor that could prescribe a treatment to someone he has never met for some illness he imagined that I had and his fear that I was not getting forcibly medicated was his only response to the website I presented, is prima facie evidence of ad hominem. The fact is a fact. If you don’t see it, that says more about you. Are you suggesting that his words were not a rejection of what I had presented? Was he endorsing the website with those words? I asked him what he thought about the website. His response was ignoring the website and attacking me. Ignorance is a sign of rejection.

            You too have failed to say anything about the topic of discussion with this post, and so yes, you are just trolling. We were discussing how vaccination is being weaponized to kill off the poor populations of the world. Try to keep up.

            That you would prefer to derail this conversation into a quagmire about the meaning of ‘ad hominem’ suggests that you have nothing to contribute to the topic.

  • D Titus

    WHY DON’T THE AMISH HAVE AUTISTIC KIDS?

    BECAUSE THEY DO NOT VACCINATE THEIR CHILDREN. No Vaccines no autism.

    The Amish are the only people in the USA that have zero autism. They also have zero vaccinations done to their people. It is against their religion.

    Each year more American children become autistic than the year before, and forced vaccination of children is also at an all time high. The more vaccinations the more autism. This is not debatable because the data on this is well documented, and has been for over 10 years now. For those of you who do not know about these studies I assume you are listening to CNN, FOX, ABC and all of the other BS fake story media outlets.

    • Sara Lucy

      Amish people vaccinate. Catch up on some news.

      • D Titus

        Thank you. I did find some more info on this and yes I was wrong a very small number of Amish do get vaccinated. Out of 3 autism cases in the Amish community 2 were confirmed to have had been vaccinated. So my point still stands, children whom do not get vaccinated greatly reduce their changes of getting autism.

        • lilady R.N.

          Your point does not stand. Why don’t you admit that your source is the crank anti-vaccine, anti-science blog Age of Autism and the drive-by study done by Dan Olmsted?

          • kedwa30

            It’s odd that you pointed out that the Amish do vaccinate and the Amish do get autism and yet you seem to have missed the correlation between the two. Could it be that the so called debunked study was actually intentionally limited to Amish who don’t vaccinate?

          • lilady R.N.

            Read the series about the “study” published by Age of Autism and how his lazy drive-by investigation missed the number of autistic kids (vaccinated and unvaccinated) who are clients of the autism treatment center located within the Pennsylvania community, where Olmsted researched autism prevalence.

          • kedwa30

            Why should I subject myself to propaganda? First qualify what you wish me to read as unbiased. It’s so typical of you in the science religion to attempt to pass off propaganda as peer review. You dismiss what you can’t understand as quackery and bury any anomalous finds rather than discuss them, lest you rock the boat too much and risk changing the paradigm, thus embarrassing your religious leaders.

          • Wow. Just when I think your dumbassery has reached its limits, you push the boundaries anew.

          • D Titus

            I’m not following you. What was your problem with his post R.W.
            THX

          • lilady R.N.

            “I’m not following you. What was your problem with his post R.W.
            THX”

            Everything, including his fact-free rants and his dependence on the garbage pseudoscience (AoA), he uses as his sole sources.

          • D Titus

            Thanks for your reply R.W. Foster.
            Are you denying that no one in government or corporations has ever lied or paid others to lie and post untrue articles. That has ever happen on the internet or in the USA?

          • kedwa30

            I have never used AoA as a source. You have demonstrated yourself, once again, to be a liar, illady RuN.
            I certainly don’t have anything against AoA. I simply have not read it.

          • kedwa30

            He’s just a sore loser. He is trying to provoke a response from me, but he is powerless as I am the one that pulls the strings that make him respond. Just watch. In a few weeks he will delete all his posts and commit suicide from the overpowering feeling of shame and humiliation of being powned.

          • D Titus

            I feel sorry for him. I do not think he has provided any evidence of anything. Pretty sure he is a paid shill. Not positive but he is following the same pattern of shills.

          • Of course you’re not following me. I’m not using small words (usually). You’ve indicated that you’re unable to follow most of the discussion on this page, even the direct, one-on-one interactions.

          • D Titus

            You have not proved anything. You are only attacking those who disagree with you. Like an in-secure child.

          • Psst: “Insecure” is one word, not a hyphenated one. No dash. I don’t need to prove anything. You’re one of the two making outlandish, baseless & false claims, yet you’d provided 0 evidence.
            As the great Sagan once said, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” We’ve seen the extraordinary claims. Now it’s time for the extraordinary evidence.

          • D Titus

            I have proved that the governments lie, the media lies and the corporations that make these drugs are lying and hiding the truth about what is in them, and what the additives do.
            You are not able to admit that you are wrong, but cannot prove anything you only attack messengers.
            Listen to this

            There was no autism before the 1st vaccines with thimerosal were issued in the 1930’s. Only after the 1st thimerosal vaccinations did autism appear in human beings.

          • You’ve not proven anything, merely made ridiculous assertions, and linked to youtube videos as if they proved anything. If they did, “Where is Optimus Prime?”

          • D Titus

            Oh so now you are saying all of these links are youtube.

            http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data.html
            http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm
            http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001553.htm

            Again you are out of grasp sir. I am sorry.
            The last link which was posted before by me is the definition of psychosis which you are continually showing symptoms of.

            “merely made ridiculous assertions, and linked to youtube videos as if they proved anything”

          • The first link has no bearing on this discussion as has been stated numerous times. Just because money has been paid out by the so-called “Vaccine Court,” says nothing about whether something is safe, or not. Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer. Does that mean every time you step into your Prius that you’re thinking Jews should be wiped out? Of course not. One of these things has nothing to do with another.

            As for the other, it’s a list of some of the common ingredients in vaccines. So what?

            And, by the way, posting links doesn’t change the fact that your assertions are ridiculous.

          • kedwa30

            Foster flaccidly claims “The first link has no bearing on this discussion”

            You’re a little behind then, because it has been a part of the discussion for some time now. Try to keep up.

          • D Titus

            Mr negative noproof. It proves that you are posting comments that are not true on this web page. So your credibility is losing face with those who come to read. I have posted from the CDC website, which is not youtube. You said I have only posted youtube videos. That is a false statement. Would you like to correct your statement now or lose even more credibility? Merry Christmas!

          • D Titus

            Yes, thanks that is true it is also true that 3 of those ingredients are poisons. Aluminum and mercury are both heavy metals.

            “As for the other, it’s a list of some of the common ingredients in vaccines. So what?” Thanks for agreeing with me that the CDC is SAYING THEY PUT POISONS IN VACCINES. I like how you are helping me prove my point. Good Job buddy!

          • D Titus

            I have no idea what optimus prime is? I guess it is another fantasy that lives inside your head, but is not actually real.

          • Okay, the word you’re looking for here is “facetious.”

          • D Titus

            Video is used in a multitude of ways to show exactly what has happened. One of my vendors uses near a 100 different camcorders to record problematic manufacturing areas. When an error occurs they go straight to the video footage to see what happened to cause the error.
            If you are 1/2 as smart as you keep suggesting, I would not have to tell you this. You would already know. If you are as smart as you suggest than this is another example of psychosis of your mind sir. Please get help. Have a nice weekend.

          • This has got to be a Poe.

          • D Titus

            Got another $10,000 says I can prove this as well. All kinds of industries use video to aid in their continuous improvement campaigns. My vendor has greatly reduced errors, scrap and defective shipments. Big money and time saver these videos.

          • Avery

            “Got another $10,000 says I can prove this as well.”

            I have eleventy gazillion says I can prove that the moon is made of cheese.

          • D Titus

            Exacty which side of the vaccine debate do you stand if you do not mind me asking?

          • D Titus

            By the way this Sunday if you watch any football games you will see that the NFL uses video for the game to do what is called “instant review” which requires someone to review the video of what just happened to see if the play was called correctly. In many cases the play was originally called incorrect, and then is reversed to the correct call or to match what the video shows just happened. Are you a football fan RW foster?

          • How do you get this stupid?

          • kedwa30

            What causes a certified child rapist to be so abusive? Were you born this way?

          • D Titus

            When is telling the truth being stupid? Dispute my video claims pls.

          • D Titus

            In 7/11 and other stores they have video cameras at least one pointed at the front door to record who is coming and going and at what time. Now if a crime is committed the police will take that video. Did you know that?
            1st they will use the video for identification of the criminal(s).
            2nd the video will be used as evidence in the trial if arrest are made.

            You did not know that?

            I will be glad to wager you $10,000 that it is true.

          • Now you’re rambling. You do know your comment has no bearing on the conversation, right?

          • D Titus

            Yes it proves that video is consider real. So watch the videos of 100’s of parents (some crying) whose healthy children became un-healthy right after receiving a large number of vaccinations.
            Then go to this site again and see how much was paid for vaccine injury claims. National Vaccine Injury Compensation
            http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data.html
            Then bet me $10,000 that I am wrong.

          • kedwa30

            Foster reacted to D Titus “You’ve not proven anything, merely made ridiculous assertions, and linked to youtube videos as if they proved anything.”

            By tradition, in a court of law, every fact is established on the testimonies of two or more witnesses. In many cases, a youtube video is a person’s testimony as to what they have witnessed. When there are two people whose testimony agrees, a fact is established. When there are thousands of testimonies that agree, and no controverting evidence, then there is a preponderance of evidence for the asserted facts.
            Your flaccid assertions are no match for one D Titus plus even one youtube video and yet he has provided many more than necessary.

            Why can’t you provide even one youtube video controverting the claims which you assert to be untrue? Your assertions are easily dismissed IF you fail to provide some kind of support.
            The only thing your unsupported claims demonstrate is that you are lazy. You haven’t even bothered to support your assertions with logic. You simply deny deny deny that your opponent’s claims are true. That makes you the denialist.

          • lilady R.N.

            My best advice is to ignore the troll tag team.

            British physician J. Landon Down (who first identified Down Syndrome), wrote about a group of children who met their early developmental milestones and then regressed, as described here by Dr. Treffert:

            https://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/professional/savant-syndrome/resources/articles/dr-j-landon-down-and-developmental-disorders/

            The earliest use of the word “autism” was in 1908 which Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Bleuler first described a subgroup of schizophrenic patients as displaying autismus (Latin)…later translated as autism, described here:

            http://www.news-medical.net/health/Autism-History.aspx

          • Good advice. I shall endeavor to do so. And thank you for your links. I like learning new things, and as always, you provide great sources.

          • lilady R.N.

            Of course it’s good advice. The *troll tag team has added nothing to this thread, so let them reply to each other.

            Just look at the extraneous topics each of them has introduced, in order to get a response. It must suck to be them, whose lives are so empty and whose knowledge base is non-existent, that they resort to haunting a science blog and lame attempts to derail threads.

            The best description I have ever seen about the broadening of the DSM Diagnostic Criteria (DSM I through DSM IVR inclusive) and the appearance of “Autism”, is Professor Roy Grinker’s, here:

            http://www.unstrange.com/dsm1.html

            * They may not be a tag team; one could be a sock puppet.

          • Mike Stevens

            Sockies, that’s for sure – identical posting style and comment content.

          • kedwa30

            “Sockies, that’s for sure – identical posting style and comment content.”

          • I can’t say it’s the best as it is the first I’ve seen to go into the broadening. However, it does expand further than other descriptions I’ve encountered. I wonder if I can find the papers that showed how and why they expanded ASD to include the newer things that it does, like Asperger’s, manic depression, ADD and ADHD.

          • kedwa30

            “The *troll tag team has added nothing to this thread, so let them reply to each other.”

          • kedwa30

            The history of how your religion was invented and developed over time is quite entertaining. Nevertheless, whatever label you give to a particular symptom cluster, it is still mental illness at its core.
            Check out SNTP.NET for some more history.

            And we mustn’t forget the father of propaganda, the nephew of Sigmund Freud, Edward Bernays and his ardent student,
            Dr. Josef Goebbels.

            I wish we could read about how Astrology was invented too. What’s really interesting is to read about how Piltdown Man was discovered and accepted by the Science Community for forty years. And here’s a good book: Plastic Fantastic.

          • kedwa30

            R.W. Foster said “I don’t need to prove anything.”
            Then you are retracting all of your claims. Very well. They were easily dismissed anyway. Well conceded.

          • lilady R.N.

            What are you blathering about? You’re a crank who somehow found his/her way on to a science blog, where you are surrounded by people who actually know how to read scientific studies and how to refute pseudoscience.

          • kedwa30

            Your religion is pseudoscience. Your inability to understand what I’m saying says more about you. Casting aspersions only reveals more about you; you are projecting.

            Why is it that when an otherwise intelligent person cannot answer a reasonable question, they react irrationally by attacking the asker?
            I ask ‘why should I subject myself to propaganda’ and I get ‘you’re a crank!’
            Is that really your answer? Name calling? Childish behavior.
            You want to talk about me, but I would rather talk about the issues. If I’m surrounded by intelligent people, then why do these people want to talk about me rather than the issues? Do you really have nothing to say about the issues?

          • lilady R.N.

            Learn how to present some facts…not factoids.

            Learn how to present some cogent arguments which refute my statements…without resorting to petty arguments which label me as a pro-vaccine religious zealot.

            Learn some basic science, such as immunology, bacteriology, virology, organic and inorganic chemistry and epidemiology.

            Your only sources are the notorious anti-vaccine/anti-science blogs and the crank bloggers who spread their FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) to credulous, ignorant-of-science parents to dissuade them from having their children vaccinated in a timely fashion, according to CDC/AAP Recommended Childhood Vaccine Schedule.

          • kedwa30

            Seriously? You absolutely refuse to discuss the issues? Perhaps you are R.w. Foster in disguise. Or perhaps R.w. Foster is you in disguise. Perhaps both are pseudonyms of the author of this blog. Speaking of crank bloggers….

          • lilady R.N.

            When you are ready to present some evidence aside from the garbage you read on AoA, you’ll be taken seriously.

            As yet, you haven’t presented anything and you seem to be an annoying troll.

          • kedwa30

            As yet, you have still avoided answering my question which was: “Why should I subject myself to propaganda?”

            We are waiting on you to qualify your sources as unbiased. Just as soon as you do that, then I can verify that, then read them and then we can discuss them.

            You jumped the gun attacking my character claiming that I limited my sources to AoA, when in fact I had not even read AoA. Why are you in such a hurry to peg me as a biased extremist? Projecting?

            What claim are you waiting to see evidence for? I have supported all of my claims. Perhaps I missed one. Please point it out so that we can move forward with the discussion of the issues.

          • D Titus

            Telling the truth is not blathering. Saying a bunch of things that do not prove a point would be blathering. CDC admits poisons are added to vacciness. Which you say is not true. Well now even R.w. Foster admits that the CDC admits poisons are some of the additives to vaccines. Of course this CDC web page agrees with me and disagrees with you li-lady.
            http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

          • D Titus

            My points do stand. Mercury causes autism, vaccines have mercury in them. Mercury is a poison.
            It is wrong, very wrong to poison children.
            People who poison are very sick individuals.
            These are all facts.

            Yes some Amish a very small number are having some vaccination – I admit that no vaccinations was wrong, but still there numbers of autism are a fraction of what vaccinated children are. It shows that most that have autism also had vaccinations.
            Has Dan Olmsted been sued by the billion dollar drug companies for libel and slander or defamation of character? If he is lying then why isn’t he being sued?

            Why are they afraid to go to court?
            Why have $2.8 billion been paid to people who’ve received vaccinations?
            Why do you think autism is on the rise? What is causing it?

          • lilady R.N.

            Thimerosal, which is not elemental Hg, but rather an organomercury compound was removed from all childhood vaccines used in the United States, more than a decade ago…yet the prevalence of autism/ASDs keeps rising.

            The AAP supports the removal of the ban on Thimerosal for multi dose vials of childhood vaccines, based on multiple studies about the safety of Thimerosal which has been used safely for more than 60 years:

            http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/1/152.full

            “….Since 1999, studies to better understand the pharmacology and toxicology of ethyl mercury have documented the profound differences between ethyl and methyl mercury. In addition, efforts to find evidence of harm to children from TCVs, used globally for >60 years, have failed to reveal any such damage. This is in sharp contrast to experience involving methyl mercury, a documented serious neurotoxin.

            Had the AAP (and, we suspect, the USPHS) known what research has revealed in the intervening 14 years, it is inconceivable to us that these organizations would have made the joint statement of July 7, 1999. The World Health Organization recommendation to delete the ban on thimerosal must be heeded or it will cause tremendous damage to current programs to protect all children from death and disability caused by vaccine-preventable diseases.”

          • kedwa30

            “yet the prevalence of autism/ASDs keeps rising.”

            This is to be expected since there are many sources of exposure to mercury. Did you think vaccines were the only source of mercury in the world? You deny that mercury in vaccines is harmful, and yet you admit thimerosal hasn’t been used in vaccines in the U.S. for a decade. Why did they stop using it in the U.S.? Because enough people were convinced by the evidence that mercury is harmful.
            That the mercury is in an organic form only makes it more readily absorbed by the digestive system. Haven’t you seen the research on calcium supplements that shows that organic forms of calcium and other minerals are better absorbed by the digestive system than their inorganic counterparts?
            No? Well here is an opportunity for you to learn something new.
            Mercury is only one of many dangerous components of many vaccines.
            Doctors used to take an oath to do no harm. Now they routinely compromise their principles and arbitrarily decide for their patients what they think is the lesser harm. Many people are convinced that the benefits of vaccinations outweighs the harm from vaccinations. Only the naive thinks that there is no harm from vaccinations.

            Vaccinations could be made in such a way as to minimize the harm, however, they are not, due to economic considerations. Selling vaccines is a big business, not a charity. Profit is the excuse, but the true motive is much more sinister. And even the charities that buy the vaccines go along with this. After all, their donations will go farther and have a larger impact if they can buy more vaccines rather than higher quality vaccines. It is compromise; it is arbitrarily committing harm to people and using apologetics to excuse it. I don’t say this to condemn vaccines. I am not anti-vax. I am bringing to light the flaws inherent in the system so that the system may be improved. Excusing it is not going to improve it.

          • lilady R.N.

            Get over yourself kedwa30. You are clueless about basic science and the difference between ethyl mercury, methyl mercury and elemental Hg. You are also clueless about the types of mercury which are dangerous and which pollute our waterways and get into the food chain.

            Gee, why would the prevalence of ASDs keep rising?

            It wouldn’t have anything to do with the broadening of DSM Diagnostic Criteria, would it?

            It wouldn’t have anything to do with the shifting diagnoses at both ends of the Spectrum in the educational setting…such as the reclassification of ADD/ADHD Learning disabilities and the reclassification of intellectual impairments as autism, plus the addition of ASD diagnoses to the existing diagnoses of intellectual impairments…or the link between a diagnosis of an ASD in order to get special education services, Early Intervention Services from School Districts…and in order to make children eligible for SSDI and Medicaid…as well as early ASD case ascertainment, would it?

          • kedwa30

            It seems that you are only trying to obfuscate the issue so that you don’t have to admit to being wrong. Why not seek truth and allow yourself to change your mind? If mental illness is on the rise, what difference does it make what it is called? People generally agree that we should all do what we can to avoid mental illness. Mental illness is caused primarily by damage to the brain. ASD has specific symptoms and the way that your science religion names symptom clusters may change day to day, but it is still mental illness at the core.
            Why do you think I need to be some kind of chemical expert to have the basic layman understanding that toxins cause harm? Your arrogance is ugly. You can’t see the forest for the trees. You are so lost in the rituals and pomposity of your religion that you ignore common sense.
            Don’t try to buffalo me. I’m not a student of yours and I don’t bow to the authorities of your religion.
            You worship pseudo-science. Get over it.
            Stop talking about me and let’s discuss the issues. Rather than tell me I’m ‘clueless’ about basic science, why don’t you explain how ethyl mercury, methyl mercury and elemental Hg are all harmless and how you will gladly swallow large doses to prove your point.

          • lilady R.N.

            ASDs are not mental illnesses…they are developmental disabilities.

            Sheesh…learn some basics about ASDs before you post comments here.

          • kedwa30

            Again, you are obfuscating rather than being honest. What organ is the object of these “developmental disabilities”?
            The brain. Thus it fits the layman’s understanding of a mental illness. Again, you are so caught up in your particulars that you ignore common sense.
            What causes developmental disabilities? Toxins or radiation which either damage tissue or disrupt ordinary cellular activities.

            If ASD is not a mental illness then why is its criteria listed in the DSM 5 along with all the other mental disorders? You have only demonstrated your dishonesty once again. http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Autism%20Spectrum%20Disorder%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

          • lilady R.N.

            You are wrong. Read the second paragraph of your own link:

            http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/facts.html

          • kedwa30

            The second paragraph to my link reads: “Using DSM-IV, patients could be diagnosed with four separate disorders: autistic disorder, Asperger’s disorder, childhood disintegrative disorder, or the catch-all diagnosis of pervasive developmental dis-order not otherwise specified. Researchers found that these separate diagnoses were not consistently applied across different clinics and treatment centers. Anyone diagnosed with one of the four pervasive developmental disorders (PDD) from DSM-IV should still meet the criteria for ASD in DSM-5 or another, more accurate DSM-5 diagnosis. While DSM does not outline recommended treatment and services for mental disorders, determining an accurate diagnosis is a first step for a clinician in defining a treatment plan for a patient.”

            Again, I am not a strawman and I do not bow down to your religious authorities. You will need to provide an argument better than an appeal to authority. The DSM is a manual written by your religious authority detailing the false paradigm you follow. You might as well be appealing to a Methodist manual. I certainly don’t have anything against Methodists, but the false paradigm that is constantly changing under the Psychiatrist paradigm is nothing more that ritual observance without any true understanding. Breaking up mental illness into many different names of disorder according to symptom clusters is as ridiculously complicated and scientific as astrology. Thus it is pseudo-science, not real science. But you can’t figure that out because you follow the crowd, you sheep. Wake up!

            As for the link you just provided, again, it is an appeal to authority–the authority you follow. That’s about like a mythicist trying to convince me to listen to the leprechaun. You are trying to convert me to your religion. The CDC is a government organization, not a source of truth. It has been wrong in the past and continues to change depending on the fallible people that run it.

          • Avery

            What organ is the object of memorization? “The brain. Thus it fits the layman’s understanding of a mental illness. ”
            What organ is the object of autonomic functions? “The brain. Thus it fits the layman’s understanding of a mental illness. ”
            What organ is the object of motor control? “The brain. Thus it fits the layman’s understanding of a mental illness. ”

            Logic fail.

            “If ASD is not a mental illness then why is its criteria listed in the DSM 5 along with all the other mental disorders?”

            Uhhh…because “mental disorder” does not imply “mental illness”? ADHD is in there too. Surely you realize that ADHD is not a mental illness.

          • kedwa30

            Clearly you are trolling around looking for an argument. You obtusely interpret what you read or else you simply have no understanding.
            If you put what I said in context with the previous posts, then you should be able to understand the point I was making. If you don’t, well, I feel sorry for you.

            ADHD, ASD, etc. are mental illnesses; specifically, ASD is a mental development disorder. When discussing a layman’s understanding especially, it is a mental illness. A headache is a mental illness.
            Not all mental illnesses require one to be committed to a mental institution or heavily medicated. Sometimes the cure is to drink water.
            You should drink some heavily fluoridated water.

          • D Titus

            Please tell us exactly how many mercury(s) there are and how much of each is in vaccines, food, drinks, rivers and air, or how we can find out how to test ourselves.

            Are you aware that mercury is in most high fructose corn syrup. I know Pepsi-Co does. I called them to ask what they thought about the new findings on HFCS, and they were aware. So I asked them where do they get their HFCS from. They refused to tell me. Again HIDING THE TRUTH ABOUT MERCURY continues to be a reappearing story with the gov and corp.

            So why is it that everyone is afraid of admitting mercury is in their product if it is good for you?

            Pretty big contradiction isn’t it?
            THX

          • kedwa30

            Illady RuN said:

            “Thimerosal, which is not elemental Hg, but rather an organomercury
            compound was removed from all childhood vaccines used in the United
            States, more than a decade ago…yet the prevalence of autism/ASDs keeps
            rising.”

            Then she/he said:

            “Gee, why would the prevalence of ASDs keep rising?

            It wouldn’t have anything to do with the broadening of DSM Diagnostic Criteria, would it?”

            It’s hilarious when trolls contradict themselves. Which is it? Is the incidence of ASD continuing to rise after Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in the U.S. because there is no connection between ASD and mercury or because of the broadening of DSM Diagnostic Criteria?

            You cannot have your cake and eat it too. In your case, the cake is a lie. Both of your assertions are deceptive. If we were to take the modern DSM criteria and apply it retroactively, we would find a lot more victims associated with childhood vaccines containing mercury (thimerosal).

          • lilady R.N.

            Heh. You made the statement:

            “Which is it? Is the incidence of ASD continuing to rise after Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in the U.S. because there is no connection between ASD and mercury or because of the broadening of DSM Diagnostic Criteria?”

            I believe my statement was quite clear. In spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary you keep insisting there was a connection between Thimerosal and the onset of autism.

            I provided you with a short lesson in the DSM expanding Diagnostic Criteria, the shifting of diagnosis in the educational setting and the multiple diagnosis now permitted in the educational setting (which are tied to the provision of special education services and therapies, which have seen the dramatic increases in ASD prevalence.

            P.S. Get to now the differences between “incidence” and “prevalence”, before you post any more comments here.

          • kedwa30

            illady RuN said “P.S. Get to now the differences between “incidence” and “prevalence”, before you post any more comments here.”

            Your arrogance is astounding. You clearly have a typo and yet you feel you can afford to nitpick others about their choice of words. When are you going to support your assertion that there is no connection between mercury and ASD with any facts? You continue to find new ways to belittle my personality, but you have yet to touch upon the issues. Is your entire debate strategy to make yourself look more arrogant than your opponent? You’re doing well in that regard.

          • lilady R.N.

            1. My ‘nym is lilady R.N.

            2. There is no “mercury” in vaccines…not now…not ever.

            3. Thimerosal (not mercury) was removed from every childhood vaccine more than a decade ago, yet the prevalence (not incidence) of ASD diagnoses continue to rise.

          • kedwa30

            “1. My ‘nym is lilady R.N.”

            Your given name is unknown; your handle is what you are known by; given your attitude, I would say that illady RuN is a better fit.

            “2. There is no ‘mercury’ in vaccines…not now…not ever.”

            Clearly you are lying. The only other explanation is that you are a fool.

            It is a given fact that vaccines have used thimerosal (aka thiomersal) which is a compound that does in fact contain the element mercury. You cannot deny this without revealing yourself to be a liar.

            “3. Thimerosal (not mercury) was removed from every childhood vaccine more
            than a decade ago, yet the prevalence (not incidence) of ASD diagnoses
            continue to rise.”

            It was removed from vaccines used within the U.S. because the FDA mandated that its use be stopped, and the FDA only has authority in the U.S. While other countries may have also restricted its use, generally speaking, there is nothing to stop someone from putting whatever they want into a vaccine used in a country which does not have laws and checks to prevent it. You may certainly claim that childhood vaccines no longer contain mercury, but you have not shown any evidence that the vaccines used by the Gates Foundation do not contain thimerosal. If it has thimerosal then it has mercury because mercury is in thimerosal. Your attempt to obfuscate has only demonstrated your ill intent.

            You have avoided answering the question that I posed to you earlier. Is the incidence of ASD continuing to rise after Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in the U.S. because there is no connection between ASD and mercury or because of the broadening of DSM Diagnostic Criteria?

            You have also failed to counter the peer reviewed study I provided that shows that ethylmercury breaks down into elemental mercury in the body. If you believe it is harmless, why not join the challenge? Consume 8 ounces of ethylymercury by mouth over a period of 80 days to prove it is harmless. Surely if it’s harmless you won’t absorb any mercury in your system.

          • lilady R.N.

            Sorry Troll. I’ve answered your questions effectively…in addition to the comments made by other posters and Skeptical Raptor.

            You need to get a life, get an education is basic science and stop posting your inane comments on a science blog.

          • kedwa30

            You’re avoiding answering. Again, I’ve given you an opportunity to answer plainly so that the majority of people can understand your point of view and again you refuse. What are you trying to avoid? Can’t you definitively answer the question for the benefit of all the others who read the comments?

            “You need to get a life, get an education is basic science and stop posting your inane comments on a science blog.”

            Why don’t you educate me by answering the question instead of avoiding it? Rather than arrogantly telling me off, why not use your time constructively instead? Perhaps it’s your view that my challenging question is an ‘inane comment’ but it appears your unwillingness to answer it demonstrates that you cannot answer it.

            Moving on, it is clear that Thimerosal is extremely toxic. The LD50 is much smaller quantity per kg than silica or water. I don’t think that you could survive the challenge, even with all that girth.

          • kedwa30

            Again, not a word about the peer reviewed study that debunks your claim thimerosal is harmless. One would think you are ignoring it and hoping it will just go away. Are you demonstrating your use of the scientific method? Is this how you work science in your everyday life? You ignore what you don’t want to accept?

          • lilady R.N.

            You mean studies which confirm my claim that Thimerosal is harmless?

            Here:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18093701

            And here,

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17898097

            Your turn now, to show studies that Thimerosal is not harmless.

          • You couldn’t resist the call of the troll, huh? It’s hard, I know.

          • lilady R.N.

            Guilty as charged, your honor, with an excuse…

            I actually posted links to two studies about Thimerosal safety for the Troll…and for you. 🙂

            – lilady

          • For me? But, I’m assured of the safety of it. Especially in the microscopic amounts used in the flu vaccine.

          • lilady R.N.

            So…I threw the Troll a bone. He’s back where he belongs…under his bridge.

          • For now…

          • kedwa30

            Once again, here is what you continue to willfully ignore:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280369/

            It is a fact that ethylmercury in thimerosal breaks down into elemental
            mercury in the body. This causes long term harm which the first study you
            chose did not address.

            The following quote is from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18093701

            Keeping in mind the inherent limitations of VAERS,
            including underreporting and potential reporting biases, we conclude
            that there were no substantial differences in the proportion of rash,
            ISR, and infection reports in the PIV, PFV and PUV reports in
            infants.

            The study only looked at rash, ISR, and infection reports!!
            So you conclude that looking at only three superficial factors can tell if something is completely harmless?

            Second, it adjusted for bias in a biased way. The data clearly show that there were more reports of adverse events with PIV and PUV vaccines. Generally speaking, those who choose preservative free vaccines are more aware and more likely to report, while those who don’t care what goes in their body are more apathetic and thus more likely to under report. If anything, the PIV and PUV groups should be adjusted upwards due to their likelyhood of under reporting. Thus, bias is demonstrated in the way this study was adjusted.

            Perhaps you should learn how to interpret a study rather than cherry pick a conclusion in the abstract!

            These next quotes come from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17898097

            (We did not assess autism-spectrum disorders.)

            Among the 42 neuropsychological outcomes, we detected only a few
            significant associations with exposure to mercury from thimerosal.

            Only a few? That’s a long way from being harmless!

            Your own citation has debunked your claim of harmless.Maybe you will learn to actually read the study rather than keyword search for your preheld convictions.

          • kedwa30

            Oh, here it is. I thought it had disappeared. Nope. You just ignored it, illady RuN.

          • kedwa30

            Nothing but more hubris. I had replied to this several days ago, but unfortunately it appears to have vanished. This is not the first time this has happened under this blog.

            Let us examine your first link:
            “examination of selected adverse events reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System”

            It is very critical that you understand this is a study with a very narrow scope. I’m not sure you can understand what that means. Your assertion is that there is absolutely no harm from thimerosol. This study you cite only looks at three very superficial things and does not cover every possible harm. That’s like saying there are no internet trolls and ‘proving’ it by looking under the bed. Nope, no internet trolls there, so they must not exist, eh? This is a logical fallacy. You presenting this link in support of your assertion only goes to show that you searched the internet for your preheld conclusion in an attempt to quote mine, yet you didn’t bother to read the whole study or else you didn’t understand what you read.

            “Keeping in mind the inherent limitations of VAERS, including underreporting and potential reporting biases”

            This study adjusts the data to come to their conclusion assuming a particular bias. This is evidence that this study is itself biased. If you look at the numbers there is clearly more reports of harm for PIV than for PFV. When you consider that people who are concerned enough about their health to be aware enough to look for and report possible adverse reactions would likely choose the PFV, then we should expect to see some reporting bias. People who aren’t concerned about what’s in a vaccine are likely to under report. So the study was adjusted in the wrong direction. If we adjust in the correct direction, it is even more clear that there is considerably more harm from PIV than from PFV. However, you assertion was that there is *NO* harm from any vaccine. This study shows that there is some harm. You have debunked your own assertion!

            Now let us look at the second link you provided:

            “It has been hypothesized that early exposure to thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative used in vaccines and immune globulin preparations, is associated with neuropsychological deficits in children.”

            You have debunked yourself again!

            You and your ilk here have said time and again that there is no mercury in thimerosal, and yet here in the study you present to be in support of your assertion it clearly says that there is.

            “thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative”

            Look at it again. Read it over and over again until you get it.

            (We did not assess autism-spectrum disorders.)

            Thus the study you provided cannot show that mercury exposure from vaccines does not cause ASD.

            Among the 42 neuropsychological outcomes, we detected only a few significant associations with exposure to mercury from thimerosal.

            You debunked yourself *again*!!!

            Are you saying ‘only a few’ is the equivalent to none? Your assertion is that there is *no harm* from vaccines, and yet the very study you linked to support this assertion says the opposite. “a few *significant* associations with exposure to *mercury from thimerosal*” were observed.

            There’s nothing more for me to do. You’ve debunked yourself!

            Nevertheless, I will provide you with this:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7070758

          • lilady R.N.

            And…I will provide you with the wording from your link, from a study using “conjunctival epithelial tissue” in a specimen dish, from 32 years ago:

            Abstract

            The cytotoxicity of two kinds of mercurial preservatives, thimerosal and phenylmercuric acetate, was studied using Chang’s human conjunctival epithelia in cell culture. The cultured cells were exposed for 5 s, 2 min and 24 h to each of the two preservatives at various concentrations,
            obtained by serial dilution. The cytopathic effect and cell desquamation from the wall of culture flask were observed with an inverted microscope and LD50 was calculated by Van der Waerden’s method. The LD50 values of thimerosal were 291.6, 47.4 and 2.2 micrograms/ml at exposure times of 5 s, 2 min and 24 h, respectively. Those of phenylmercuric acetate were 1,120.2, 227.5 and 2.6 microgram/ml at exposure times of 5 s, 2 min and 24 h, respectively. Cytotoxicity can be expressed quantitatively and precisely by LD50. LD50 is lower than the concentrations that are necessary to induce observable morphological changes. The results may help to choose the least toxic concentration of
            mercurial preservatives for addition to ophthalmic solutions.”

            Heh. Learn the difference between cunjunctival epithelial tissue in vitro and subcutaneous tissue or intramuscular tissue in vivo, before you post any more of your inane comments here.

            Thanks for the shites and laughs.

          • kedwa30

            Why did you bother? You have said nothing to support your assertion. What do you hope to do other than fool people into thinking you are wearing invisible clothes? Arrogance and hubris can only fool people so long before they see through it.
            I could say ‘learn the difference between round and triangle before you post here again’. What kind of supporting statement is that? It says nothing.

            You have already debunked your own assertions that thimerosal is completely harmless and that it contains no mercury.

            At first I could laugh at you, but now it’s getting sad.
            You actually can’t accept losing, can you? It’s so important that you win that you cannot accept that you are wrong and absorb new information. That’s the behavior of a mindless zealot. There is no place in science for such attitudes.

          • kedwa30

            Yes, 32 years ago the LD50 was being calculated and thus it has been available knowledge for that long. So what’s your excuse for not knowing that thimerosal has an LD50 and is thus proven to be harmful? Remember, ignorance is no excuse. Throwing word salad at me is not going to make you look smart this time. You have to do better than that.

            If you think the observations of a tissue culture under a microscope and what happens to tissue in a whole body is going to be so different, then why are you afraid to take the challenge? Swallow a mere 8 ounces of thiomersal over a period of 80 days to prove it is harmless. Why won’t you do this? Because you know that the ethyl mercury in thiomersal will break down into elemental mercury after your body tissues absorb it. You know it would kill you even if you distributed it over 800 days. You’re not stupid. You want other people to die, not you.

          • kedwa30

            Once again you have debunked yourself.

          • Avery

            “Which is it? Is the incidence of ASD continuing to rise after Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in the U.S. because there is no connection between ASD and mercury or because of the broadening of DSM Diagnostic Criteria?”

            Ummmm…those two positions are not contradictory. Read what you type.

          • kedwa30

            The point went over your head. You read what I type:
            “If we were to take the modern DSM criteria and apply it retroactively,
            we would find a lot more victims associated with childhood vaccines
            containing mercury (thimerosal).”

            If the rise in ASD after childhood vaccines no longer contain as much mercury is attributed to a broadening of DSM diagnostic criteria, then that suggests that there is a link between mercury and ASD.

            If the rise in ASD after childhood vaccines no longer contain as much mercury could not be attributed to a broadening of DSM diagnostic criteria (if they used the same criteria and still got an increase) then lowering the amount of mercury would appear not to have had any effect. So the question remains unanswered: which is it? The fact that statistics are artificially raised by a changing of criteria means that we cannot use them to show that ASD did not lower when one source of mercury was reduced.
            There are too many confounding factors to draw a conclusion that mercury in vaccines is harmless.

          • D Titus

            Oh, so liars are saying that it was removed so it must be true. Because you can always trust liars. Again LILADY I am too sane to trust liars. Sorry!

            Exactly how many vaccines have you had examined to see if there was mercury in them or not? May I see the test results?

            thimerosol sounds like a corporate patented name which is why it is not a natural element of planet earth. It was created to hide the fact that mercury was in the vaccine. WHY because 20 years ago no one argued whether mercury poisoning cause autism in children, or that it causes chronic fatigue syndrome in adults. Only drug companies and the cdc have taken sides against these facts from the past in recent years. I believe that they hire people like you to spread lies. I truly hope that I am wrong, but if so. You are selling your sole for pennies on the 100 dollar bill.

            Stop trusting liars.

          • D Titus

            Posting this clip to show you that mercury was not taken out of vaccines by the liars. You are trusting liars Lilady.
            This is from 2012 and they are referring to mercury that is in the vaccines at the time.

            More proof of vaccine poisoning.

        • Avery

          “yes I was wrong a very small number of Amish do get vaccinated.”

          No. 85% is not a small number of Amish.

          http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2011/06/23/peds.2009-2599.abstract

    • lilady R.N.

      The Amish do vaccinate and if you had done some research, aside from reading the “study” done by former UPI reporter/Editor in Chief of the anti-vaccine, anti-science blog Age of Autism, Dan OImsted, you would have found how Olmsted’s drive-by study of the Amish and the incidence of autism is rank pseudoscience. Olmsted managed to miss a large autism clinic and treatment center sited within the Amish community he studied.

      Olmsted refers to his “study” as the Amish Anomaly…which earned him an entry in Wikipedia. Read here, how science bloggers thoroughly debunked the Amish Anomaly:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_anomaly

      The Amish, Hutterites and Mennonites, do have a higher incidence of children born with certain genetic diseases, which is attributed to those communities being closed societies with intermarriages among close family members…for generations. Many of those afflicted with those genetic diseases, also have diagnoses of autism/autistic-like behaviors:

      http://www.etown.edu/centers/young-center/files/hmorton-references/Pediatric%20Medicine%20and%20Genetics%202003.pdf

      • D Titus

        Yes thank you for the info.

        1st WIKI is not a place I trust ever since they tried to change the definition of usury. It failed and they have changed to a correct def. Just like do not trust FOX, CNN, ABC, CBS AND SO ON. I DO NOT TRUST what LIARS say (video I can trust). Not that I am saying you are a liar “Lilady”

        2nd Is this the same UPI (united press international) that admittedly editing one of the films taken of JFK assassination? If so then they are traitors to truth as well. This film would have shown exactly what went on at the grassy knoll location, but that few seconds of the film was removed or spliced out of the film by the UPI. Only that part. WHY WOULD THE UPI DO THAT? This is not the Zapruder film, there were nearly a dozen other films of that moment. WHICH HAVE BEEN HIDDEN FROM YOU BY THE GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA. Many of which were edited at the time of the head shot. It is on this DVD which I own.

        http://www.amazon.com/JFK-Assassination-Files-Case-Conspiracy/dp/B0000DC14U

        By the way 2 rifles were pulled out of the Texas school book depository the day of Nov 22 1963, and for the 1st 36 hours after JFK murder, all media only talked about a mauser 7.65mm rifle. Even Walter Concret talks about the mauser being the only gun found.

        https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jfk+assassination+mauser+gun

        For those of you who are not convinced that the government and media are liars please view these fine films.

        https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=evidence+of+revision
        You can watch Walter change his story about rifles in the above link.

        DID ANY OF YOU KNOW THAT FOR THE 1st 36 hours after JFK’s murder the media only talked about a different rifle than the CARCANO. Why are these facts hidden?

        Jonestown was BS also almost all of the deaths were ruled to be homicide by the local corners office. CIA OP Jones was CIA owned.

        LIES ON TOP OF LIES.

        What does this have to do with the topic at hand. Well it shows that large powerful corporations (like our media) are going way out of the way to hide the truth. I think that this article on this page is doing the same thing.

        IT TIME TO REALIZE THAT WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO ABOUT MANY THINGS and those issuing the lies are government and corporations.

        What corporation owns this web site?

        Again I cannot trust people or organizations who hide the truth or liars.
        I’m sure you agree that liars cannot be trusted.

        Why did you use the phrasing “Drive By” – as apposed to selective, limited or incomplete? Was it for impact?

        If you have any other evidence please pass it on, I will take a look at it.

        THX

        • lilady R.N.

          Did you open the links contained in the Wiki entry for Olmsted’s “Amish Anomaly”?

          What are you blathering on about, taking this thread off topic?

          Olmsted is not a science journalist and during his tenure at UPI he worked for the Moonies. In addition, Olmsted published studies about polio being caused by pesticides/herbicides and a case of mass conversion disorder was, in his opinion, caused by herbicides…in spite of thorough investigations by the NY State Department of Health and the EPA findings:

          http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/07/28/how-they-view-us-poor-poor-pitiful-dan-olmsted/

          Furthermore, Olmsted owns Age of Autism and his income is dependent on selling advertising space to quack “cures” for autism. He and his groupies support the disgraced and discredited former medical doctors Andrew Wakefield and Mark Geier. Geier lost his medical licenses in multiple states because he was chemically castrated autistic kids and then IV chelating them:

          http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2013/05/mark-geier-not-leg-to-stand-on.html

    • Avery
  • D Titus
    • On this page, only peer-reviewed articles published in high impact journals count as evidence. A lying youtube video does not.

      • D Titus

        Man you may need a rest. Lying youtube video. I’m not sure what you are referring to. The link was to a channel with hundreds of videos all saying the same thing. My child was fine until he/she was vaccinated and then the child got autism. So either you did not even bother to look at the link, or you are a not grasping reality to well. Only believing what you want to believe is called psychosis. That means you need help, which is probably why you are calling people names for exercising their constitutional right of free speech. Now that makes you a traitor to USA. Of such actions again are a sign of mental illness. Please get help.

        Prove to me that all videos on youtube are lies, or that each of the videos in the link are lies, and I will give you or donate $100 to this site. THX

        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCrfK5rP_B6huriP1hLApw/videos

    • lilady R.N.

      Citation by YouTube video with “testimonials” from parents of autistic kids who claim their children’s autism was caused by a vaccine/vaccines?

      I viewed every one of those “testimonials” (the things I do for science), and those parents are the ones who cannot accept their special needs children’s autism. Many of them have made claims on behalf of their children before the United States Court of Federal Claims (Vaccine Court). Even with the lower burden of proof that exists in the Vaccine Court-vs-State Civil Courts, their cases have been dismissed for lack of evidence and lack of expert witnesses.

      Citation by YouTube is bogus. I’ll go with the multiple studies completed by researchers from around the world, which have been published in first tier, peer-reviewed medical and science journals and which examined the vaccination records of millions of children and compared them to the children’s clinical records. No association was ever found which linked any vaccine, any series of vaccines, any ingredient(s) in vaccines, the spacing and timing of vaccines…and the onset of autism…or any other developmental disability or disorder:

      http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/safety.html

      • kedwa30

        You are a good zealot. Keep up the good work of science apologetics. Your religion needs you.

        • lilady R.N.

          You are an anti-vaccine troll, who resorts to insults to make up for your deplorable lack of knowledge about vaccines and the many studies which have shown no link between vaccines and the onset of autism.

          How about producing some studies which refute the studies I have provided, troll?

          • kedwa30

            I compliment you and you return this evil for my good? Shame! Tsk tsk!
            You are now making your science religion look just like any other religion, full of violent natured followers who themselves are full of vim and hatred.
            What have I said that makes you think I’m anti-vax? It seems to me you must be projecting your own sour intent onto me. I know my intent, but you would have to project in order to jump to your conclusions.
            Asking for studies that refute studies is about like asking for Bible quotes that refute the Bible. The science religion does not tolerate dissent.
            Anything that goes against the accepted model is labeled quackery and dismissed as debunked.

          • Only a absolute moron calls science a religion. Wait…

          • D Titus

            What is your proof of that pls? thx

          • lilady R.N.

            That’s a weird compliment….calling me a religious zealot and labeling my comment as science apologetics.

            And those studies to refute the studies in the link I provided are….where?

          • kedwa30

            Yes it is weird, but you may take it as a compliment since that is what you strive to be. You’re welcome.

            As for studies that refute the link you provided, I believe I have run short on funding to conduct such studies. You will have to make due with regular old peer review.
            That’s the thing where a peer reviews the study.
            Oh, but you knew that. Tell me, is there any reason why you would so narrowly construe what is acceptable evidence that it would have to be a study designed for the specific purpose of debunking a study? Would regular old facts work? Or would you reject the facts because they didn’t meet your criteria as a study?
            By the way, upon which study do you base your assertion that I am an anti-vax troll? I’d really like to see your credentials as an expert on trolls before I can accept that. Do you have a degree in trolling? No!? You pretender!
            How dare you insinuate that I’m a troll when you don’t have any kind of certifications, diplomas, or any credentials.
            I suppose you think I’m an arrogant snob for putting credentials above humanity. Well I am. Live with it.

          • lilady R.N.

            And…where are those studies which have already been done which you claim are some sort of proof for your wild rants?

            You do have those studies….right?

          • kedwa30

            You are obviously confusing me with someone else. Either that or you are building a strawman. Either way, your comment has got nothing to do with me.

          • kedwa30

            I’m not a fool, so don’t think you can send me on a fools errand. I have no intention of reviewing each and every one of the many propagandas you have at your disposal. What I will do instead is argue common sense. If you can’t understand common sense, then what good is holding a degree? That piece of paper only proves that you learned what to think. It cannot show that you understand how to think.

            “Misinformation abounds on the Internet, making it hard to find a
            reliable source of information.”

            The website you present is no exception. By the way, the above quote is from that very website.

            “The AAP Immunization Web site was assessed by the World
            Health Organization (WHO) and passed their credibility and good
            information criteria. It is included in the WHO’s list of vaccine safety websites.”

            So the World Health Organization endorses this website’s answers. Woop dee doo. Who started the WHO? “The World Health Organization (WHO) is a specialized agency of the United Nations” -Wikipedia
            Who started the United Nations? None other than the same guy who publicly professes an ideal global population to be no more than three hundred million: Ted Turner. He pledged a billion dollars and with that he got the power to control the organization. To this day, Turner serves as Chairman of the United Nations Foundation board of directors.

            So tell me, how unbiased is a website that is endorsed by an organization run by a global depopulationist? You are trying to tell me this isn’t propaganda? Oh, but perhaps you sincerely didn’t realize that it is!

          • lilady R.N.

            How about picking one of the many studies I provided?

            Try to read it and try to refute it, troll.

          • kedwa30

            How about you try to keep up. We are discussing how Ted Turner, a professed depopulationist, has his thumb print of approval on every one of the pseudo-studies and propaganda websites you cite.
            When you can cite an unbiased source, we can discuss it too.

            Until then, your studies have been debunked as biased and you have yet to assert any different.

          • lilady R.N.

            Um no. We are not discussing Ted Turner. That discussion is taking place in your utterly deranged mind.

          • kedwa30

            The reason we are not discussing it is because you can’t keep up. I have certainly been discussing it out in the open as anyone who can read can certainly see. Thus you demonstrate yourself once again to be nothing more than a liar. You’re a troll that cares nothing about discussing the issues and only wants to obfuscate until the others give up, and then you feel like you won an argument. The fact is, you have presented no argument; only eristics.

          • John Richards

            Jumped the shark (again) on that one! Please link in extraterrestrials, and my day will be complete!

          • kedwa30

            Fonzie and Laverne of Laverne & Shirley appeared in the first episode of Mork and Mindy.
            There ya go. When you’re ready to abandon fiction and talk about reality, let me know.

      • D Titus

        You viewed every one of them. Good for you, now that’s dedication. So exactly how many videos were there? What was the average time of the clips, and how long did it take you to view every second of each video? THX

    • John Richards

      Well, yeah, and the sky is blue, and a meteor could hit you while you are walking across the lawn. Everything has risks. Vaccines cause far less death and injury than the diseases they protect us from (as long as you’re talking about the standard battery of vaccinations.) Really, what’s your point.

      • D Titus

        I am quite sure that I have already made my point, but for the pointed headed people here it is again. Mercury is a poison, and it is in vaccines. Like I also previously posted above kedwa30 said that mercury is not a poison. I am only trying to get kedwa30 to see reality. Glad that you agree with me. Now tell kedwa30 that he is out of grasp with reality. THX and have a wonderful weekend!

        • D Titus

          I wrongly accused Kedwa30 of saying mercury is not a poison. Kedwa30 knows the truth. Sorry Kedwa30

          It was

          R.w. Foste lilady who said that there wasn’t any mercury in vaccines and rw who stated mercury is not a poison.

    • Avery

      Trolls troll.

      • D Titus

        Paid trolls! You are correct.

  • Ebola’Cereal

    Funny how you put out this leftist BS. then Make it to where no one’s words can be seen till you approve them… Afraid of something???

    • You really need to pull your head out of your ass. I don’t approve anyone, but the Disqus filter blocks known spammers. So, apparently, your IP address and email address have got yourself into the Spam filter. Your problem dumbass. Not mine.

      • D Titus

        Name calling, says a lot about the character of the individual.

        • It does not, dumbass. It’s indicative of his lack of patience with morons.

          • D Titus

            Attacking the messenger not the message. Is an old established character identifier. Attacking the messenger does not the change the truth of the message. It shows that you cannot attack the message, and since you cannot get your way you behave as a child. Using name calling which is a sign of a lower IQ.
            Have a nice one.

          • Avery

            Actually, he attacked the message here: “I don’t approve anyone, but the Disqus filter blocks known spammers. So, apparently, your IP address and email address have got yourself into the Spam filter.”

          • D Titus

            When he called another a derogatory name he attacked the person. Without providing any evidence to support his point.

  • Ebola’Cereal

    So you’re saying that the birth rate drops beacause more kids are alive??? would that = more people which =more births… that makes no sense and is quite funny that you put that out there like it is fact… The quote you have from bill gates up there about. Dr. Wakefeild, is there any proof behind Mr. Gates’ claim. The answer is no. Look into Dr. Wakefeilds work and you’ll see he did a pretty direct research. And the “other” tests and studies Mr. gates is refering to are studies that he paid for… Doesnt seem fair to me… If it smells fishy then why smell it? further more why try to explain the bad smell as if its really a good smell??? What Mr. Gates said was “If you dont like my vaccines then your a kid killer” sounds like a political move if ive ever heard one… Plus the PARALYSIS in India was NOT described as POLIO so all you did was debunk that anyone caught POLIO from the vaccine, not that the vaccine did not cause the PARALYSIS.. Last My only ? about the Ugandan kids is were they vaccinated?

    • Since you’re simply a paranoid idiot, you fail to understand the fact that in poorer countries, there’s a higher birthrate because fewer children survive past a couple of years old.

      You’re just ignorant. Too bad they let people like you out of the 3rd grade.

      • D Titus

        This does not support your original claim at all. How does this reduce the world pop?

      • kedwa30

        You have not provided any supporting evidence for your assertion that the higher birth rate in Africa is because few children survive. If you look in other countries including in the U.S., poor people tend to have more kids than the well indoctrinated er, Imean ‘educated’ wealthy people. You are blind to the fact that people have been having large families for thousands of years whether in good times or bad. In the U.S. the average family size of poor low educated people is much higher than the average family size of those with college diplomas despite the fact that child mortality is equal, thanks to modern interventions that we all can enjoy here in the U.S.
        Some people choose to have fewer children because they want to maintain their high standard of living; some people pay a lot of money to a fertility clinic to get help having a baby. Lots of people continue to have large families despite the high survival rate. Your assertion has been thoroughly debunked by the evidence.
        The Bill Gates damage control PR came up with this whopper and you took the bait, hook, line, and sinker. You aren’t intelligent enough to appreciate the irony of you calling anyone else an idiot. It has me in stitches!

        • Sara Lucy

          Aren’t you refuting your own points? You admit that better educated people (or indoctrinated, if you want) have fewer children but then you don’t want to acknowledge facts about what leads to better education of a population? Namely- reproductive healthcare, education of women, and improved healthcare overall from things like… vaccines! They have fewer kids, in turn, because their children are surviving but ensuring survival requires more resources. You recognize this so why do you keep asking for evidence?

          “In the U.S. the average family size of poor low educated people is much higher than the average family size of those with college diplomas despite the fact that child mortality is equal”

          This is not true at all. There are serious racial and income disparities in health care. There is a national rate of infant mortality, but you can break it down and see disparities among different groups.

          • kedwa30

            Sara Lucy said “Aren’t you refuting your own points?”

            You are confusing my points with those of a strawman.

            “You admit that better educated people (or indoctrinated, if you want) have fewer children”

            Not all, but there is a trend, which may be caused by the indoctrination. This is not a natural cause. That is my point. What contradiction?

            “but then you don’t want to acknowledge facts about what leads to better education”

            What leads to better education? People having access to true information and the time to digest it.

            “of a population? Namely- reproductive healthcare,”

            The term ‘reproductive healthcare’ is ambiguous today because it may refer to combatting STI’s in order to make reproduction healthier and more successful as well as abortion and sterilization which leads to lowered rates of reproduction. I don’t see how such ambiguity can unambiguously relate to education, unless you mean to say the indoctrination into the belief that having children is bad. ‘Reproductive healthcare’ is also used as an umbrella for the disemination of indoctrination through sex education classes to discourage people from having children too soon or at all. It is used to promote homosexuality and abortion as well as to convince kids that they want to get sterilized after having only one or two children.

            “education of women,”

            Indoctrination of women. See above. Oh, but aren’t you using circular logic here? Education of women leads to better education. I would think that was redundant, unless your status quo is that only men should be educated.

            “and improved healthcare overall from things like… vaccines!”

            Indeed, when vaccines are made and used correctly, they are certainly beneficial to mankind. You are confusing my points with those of a strawman. I am against the use of vaccines to artificially lower population by sneaking in extra stuff that sterilizes people or makes them into a carrier of a disease which they then give to anyone who hasn’t gotten the vaccination. I am also against the use of mercury as a preservative when the vaccine is intended to be given to children who haven’t yet fully developed their brain. In other words, I am not a strawman.

            “If you want to call these people brainwashed, fine, but they’re brainwashed AND more economically productive.”

            Yes, but money isn’t everything. If you have all the money in the world but have lost your soul, then what do you have after you die? People who are indoctrinated into the belief that they need to have few or no children in order to be able to enjoy life will never know the joy of having a large family. They will get the approval of their boss and their indoctrinated peers, but then their one child will be isolated, playing with his Xbox while he waits for mom and dad to come home from work. That is your vision of economic productivity. Child neglect!

            “They have stronger economies, more prospects
            and more resources to deal with the challenges they face.”

            They have fewer resources since they have to depend on their one or two children getting jobs that not only support themselves, but also can help their parents retire. The economy is designed for growth. Growth is dependent on demand for resources going up. When demand stagnates, then investments don’t pay off. Businesses cannot pay back their loans if their investments don’t pay off, so businesses go bankrupt, the economy stagnates, etc. You cannot stop population growth and expect the economy to continue to improve. You clearly don’t know enough to make an accurate prediction. That’s naivete.

            “They have fewer kids. You recognize this so why do you keep asking for evidence?”

            Some people choosing to have fewer kids based on propaganda is not evidence that healthier people naturally choose to have fewer kids. The fact that poor people continue to have large families despite also being healthier demonstrates that health is not a factor.
            I’m overly harsh in my posts, but get past that. There’s no reason we need to be adversarial. If you truly don’t understand, that’s okay, so long as you are willing to change your mind when you get the new information you need to make an accurate model.

            I said “In the U.S. the average family size of poor low educated people is much higher than the average family size of those with college diplomas despite the fact that child mortality is equal”

            You said “This is not true at all. There are serious racial and income disparities in health care. There is a national rate of infant mortality, but you can break it down and see disparities among different groups.”

            Minorities are in the minority. Let’s talk about the majority. Without looking at any statistics I’m going to guess that the majority of poor people are white simply because the majority of people are white. So we can set aside race and look only at economics. Sure there is a disparagingly high percent of blacks and Hispanics in the U.S. poor population, but that is coincidence. There are plenty of wealthy blacks and Hispanics to prove that race is not a factor that we should discuss here. You maintain that improved health is the key factor that determines when a population ‘naturally’ reduces growth. If this were the case then a small population of a hundred people that achieved immortality should voluntarily stop reproducing period even without any kind of indoctrination or change in their culture. What I’m saying is that improved healthcare not going to cause a population growth to decline. People can become immortal and so long as they have space they will continue to procreate.
            One of the factors in the decline of growth of the U.S. population is the fact more than half the population lives crammed into big cities. I believe that space is a natural limiter, but not health. In fact it is the opposite: sickly people would not procreate as that would likely lead to the death of the mother as well as miscarriage.

            When you look at the TV ads portraying starving Ethiopians and asking you to donate the cost of a cup of coffee, you take that as evidence that starving people have more children. That is propaganda! Those starving orphans were conceived by a healthy mother, but ended up in their situation by warlords forcing them out of a territory. The ad doesn’t explain the politics behind the situation. And the people who accept the donations usually pay themselves well for appealing to the charity of the middle classes. But I digress. You are simply the victim of propaganda.

            In the U.S. and everywhere really, the wealthiest people can get better medical care but that doesn’t mean better medical care is the cause of many wealthy people’s decision to have few children. In Canada, for example, you can hardly complain there is much disparity since their health care system is socialized, and yet poor people continue to have larger families there too. In the U.S. the disparity is greatly caused by the meddling of the insurance companies. Obama forcing people to buy insurance, which profits insurance execs, hasn’t done a thing to make health care more affordable. But you can hardly say that health care in the U.S. is the level of a third world country. Canada’s natural growth rate compared to the U.S. is lower, but that could be explained by other factors, such as how much of their population lives in dense cities. Of the Canadian population, those who identified as aboriginal were among the fastest growing segments. But that may be explained as more people choosing to identify as aboriginal. As you can see, it is very difficult to get any hard facts when surveys are involved. A person could easily skew his study to reflect his personal opinion. You have been taught what to think instead of how to think, and you need to learn to think for yourself and do your own research to come to the truth.

          • Sara Lucy

            I see why you talk about strawmen so much. You are very practiced in this technique.

          • kedwa30

            Yes, I have dealt with a large variety of eristics including Poe’s law, fake accounts which people use to pretend to be an idiot extremist so that they have a strawman they can pretend to humiliate with their other account, etc. There are many techniques at making propaganda. People read the comments and think there are actual idiot extremists in large number that they need to oppose. It’s one way of manipulating people. What do you think of D Titus? Is he a real person or a strawman Poe?

          • Sara Lucy

            I have no clue about D Titus. I don’t give much thought as to whether screen names are real people or bots. It doesn’t matter to me.

            Referring to my statement above, I am trying to address your arguments as they come but it’s hard whenever you’re patronizing and making false assumptions about my moral stance. It makes the whole discussion quite boring.

          • kedwa30

            When I make statements such as: ” If you have all the money in the world but have lost your soul, then what do you have after you die?” I am using the generic ‘you’ not talking about you in particular. I hope that helps.

          • Sara Lucy

            “there is a trend, which may be caused by the
            indoctrination. This is not a natural cause. That is my point.”

            So explain how the conceptual naturalness of something overrides the reality of it. Whether it’s due indoctrination or anything else, reduced fertility rates among healthier, well educated people is an observation, a reality that you’ve already conceded.

            “What leads to better education? People having access to
            true information and the time to digest it.”

            Does this require infrastructure? If so, what types?

            “I am against the use of vaccines to artificially lower
            population by sneaking in extra stuff that sterilizes people or makes them into a carrier of a disease which they then give to anyone who hasn’t gotten the vaccination.”

            Congratulations on having a reasonable position on human
            rights. Most of the world agrees with you, including the people who are planning and implementing vaccine programs in developing nations.

            “Yes, but money isn’t everything”

            Economics isn’t exactly about money. It’s about resource
            allocation, specifically in an environment subject to scarcity (like the planet we live on.) Increased economic productivity means the value of a person’s efforts is increased. Not monetary value only.

            “You cannot stop population growth and expect the economy to continue to improve. You clearly don’t know enough to make an accurate prediction. That’s naivete.”

            It sounds like you’ve been reading Philip Longman. The
            problems faced by an aging population do not negate the problems faced by societies with high birth rates and limited access to basic healthcare and education. Nor is atmospheric phenomena put on hold so we can sort out a population aging crisis.
            Try again.

            “Some people choosing to have fewer kids based on propaganda is not evidence that healthier people naturally choose to have fewer kids.”

            Who cares? If they are happy in their choices that are based on propaganda, then that’s their issue not yours.

            Because a woman can naturally conceive and carry a dozen or more children in her lifetime starting at the age of 15 or younger, doesn’t mean she needs to do that to meet your perverted view of what is “natural” and therefore acceptable.

            Being made aware of the fact she’s a human being with rights, including the right to make her own choices, may be your idea of “indoctrination” but it’s not mine.

          • kedwa30

            Sara Lucy said “So explain how the conceptual naturalness of something overrides the
            reality of it.”

            So you are using liberal speak here to say that you don’t understand how it can be unnatural if it exists. Listen, I cannot make you understand the difference between man-made versus nature because liberals argue that man is a part of nature. What I can do is point out that the existence of healthy people who choose not to have kids is not an indication that choosing not to have kids is caused by good health. Correlation alone is not cause. It is caused by propaganda, not good health. The good health is a coincidence, not a cause. If it was natural, then why don’t we find examples of this in other animals? In rat studies, rat populations leveled off despite unlimited food when their space was limited. However, given excellent health, plenty of space, and unlimited food, there is no evidence their population would stop growing. Good health is NOT a cause of natural population reduction.

            “Whether it’s due indoctrination or anything else, reduced
            fertility rates among healthier, well educated people is an
            observation, a reality that you’ve already conceded.”

            Acknowledging a correlation exists is not a concession. It is a fact which I happily consider. I do not dismiss it out of hand. However, given that the natural model is that good health is not a cause of reduction of population growth, then the available evidence points to propaganda as one of the causes of reduction of population growth. But the fact that more and more people are paying good money to a fertility clinic or doctor to help them conceive is evidence that there is more to it than that. Clearly these people did not choose not to procreate. They want to procreate, and yet, something in the environment or to do with the development of their body has made them unable to conceive.

            From within a social vacuum, it would seem to be a logical leap to go from there to concluding that people are intentionally causing infertility in other people. However, when you consider all the evidence including the Georgia Guidestones and Ted Turner’s public proclamation that an ideal global population (the utopia he would like to see) is a mere three hundred million, then it’s not hard to see this at all. Those wealthy people who control all big industry are intentionally polluting in order to cause increased disease and death, shortened life spans, etc. They have vast influence and control over all the universities, government agencies, the elections (if a person doesn’t have the support of the super rich, he cannot become a candidate, so no matter who gets elected, they are loyal to the super rich first), industry, etc. You cannot trust the outcome of major studies anymore since the influence of the depopulationists can easily manipulate them. You must do your own research based on sense and logic, not allowing yourself to be deceived by the conclusions (opinions) written into the abstract.

            I don’t have the time at the moment to address the rest of the post, but I will address each point as soon as I do. Good day.

          • Sara Lucy

            “Correlation alone is not cause. It is caused by propaganda, not good health.”

            I agree with you that the association does not automatically lead to a conclusion that better health causes lower rates of reproduction. There are other factors. But there are clear indications that healthcare is a significant factor no matter how many red herrings you want to drag into the discussion.

            The point I’m making is still very basic. The UNFPA reports that up to 30% of girls under 18 are giving birth in many developing countries, usually within marriages. When girls start giving birth at younger ages, this is associated with an increase in fecundity, or the number of children per woman.

            Access to healthcare is a major barrier that these women face. Ideally, because girls under 18 face much higher risks during pregnancy than adult women, social and heallthcare interventions are one way to reduce pregnancies during adolescence. That intervention could plausibly have a direct impact on lifetime fecundity, to be specific, and thus on the growth rate of a population.

            http://www.populationaction.org/blog/2013/10/30/new-unfpa-report-highlights-challenge-of-adolescent-pregnancy/

          • kedwa30

            “there are clear indications that healthcare is a significant factor”

            No, there is not. If there was, then you would be able to point to them and say ‘here is the evidence’. You haven’t. You keep repeating without any supporting evidence your assertion that good health leads to decline in population growth. It does not. Your unsupported assertion is easily dismissed, however I have gone above and beyond my duty by actually debunking it. I have pointed out how healthy poor populations have continued to have large numbers of children. I can point out that Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, and other people of certain religious beliefs will continue to have as many children as they can whether they are healthy or not. This further demonstrates that your hypothesis is wrong. When will you accept that your hypothesis is wrong? How much more evidence must I bring up? In the spirit of true science, PLEASE FOLLOW THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

            Red herrings? How about the fact that every time you fail to come up with a valid argument, which is every time thus far, you point a finger at me and start attacking my character? Why don’t you want to keep the discussion on topic?

            When infant mortality is high, then birth rate is significantly higher than long term population growth. Poor health care is proven to be a factor in a lower long term population growth. If you’re into calculus, you could even come up with a nice equation to demonstrate mathematically that as infant mortality declines due to improved health care, then long term population growth increases. At a point where all children survive long enough to have children of their own, population growth gets a boost.

            What happens when a deer population explodes? There are more car accidents, as demand for food can exceed the local supply and result in migration. People advocate for more doe tags to be issued, etc.

            What if Bill Gates is actually attempting to make the African population explode in order to create a problem which people will react to and then those who created the problem can present their solution? It’s called Diocletian’s Problem-Reaction-Solution

          • kedwa30

            “because girls under 18 face much higher risks during pregnancy than
            adult women, social and heallthcare interventions are one way to reduce
            pregnancies during adolescence.”

            You need to take an impartial look at the words you are saying. Go ahead. Read what you wrote again and again until you get it.

            How do healthcare interventions change a married woman’s mind about bearing a child for her husband? They don’t. Only propaganda to convince the woman to choose to delay having children can do that.

            I’ve heard of people dropping so much acid that they become afflicted with word salad. Terms that are defined very differently get blended and associated in their melted mind. Everything is love. God is love. They are part of everything, so they are god. Everyone is god. Seriously, did you drop acid to so strongly believe that propaganda is healthcare?

            I want to know what’s wrong with you.

            “When girls start giving birth at younger ages, this is associated with
            an increase in fecundity, or the number of children per woman.”

            Birth rate is greater than long term population growth because of infant/child mortality. I’m in favor of helping children to survive. I’m simply pointing out that by providing better health care and allowing more babies to survive, you are increasing the long term population growth. This is mathematically proven. Improved health care alone cannot plausibly reduce long term population growth. It is impossible, unless you define improved health care to include forced abortion, increased disease, involuntary sterilization, and other atrocities against humanity. Such social interventions are not actually health care. You are wrong. Bill Gates is wrong.
            If you want to correct your hypothesis, then you can say that social interventions such as propaganda can fool people into voluntarily choosing to sterilize themselves after having only one or two children per couple. But trying to revive Bill’s hypothesis by tacking on social interventions does not make improved health care responsible for lowering population growth. That must be some kind of fallacy.

          • kedwa30

            Good health care is only a significant correlation because the propaganda is disseminated under the umbrella of health care. Don’t confuse the method of delivery with cause.

            Historically, people who were wealthy had more children. It is only relatively recently that the people wealthy enough to afford the best education and health care started choosing to have few children. This can be viewed as evidence that the health care and educations systems are being used as propaganda delivery agents.

            In the past, wealthy families have chosen to marry within the family in order to keep the family wealth consolidated. People were very conscious to avoid marrying ‘down’ and sought to marry ‘up’. Money has been a huge influence on how people behave. Today, many people are choosing to limit their children so that they can maintain a certain lifestyle with their income. This has nothing to do with health.
            Concerning Africa:
            “Growth rates of over 2.5 percent per year are far higher than those experienced
            in the past by the now-developed world, and by most other developing regions
            today. These are occurring largely because death rates have fallen due to
            immunization and improvements in health care.”
            http://www.worldwatch.org/node/557

            Do you still believe that vaccines and improvements in health care will slow population growth?

            How many children would poor Africans want to have if their children were guaranteed to live to adulthood?
            On average, 1 out of every 11 children born in sub-Saharan Africa dies before age 5.

            How many do you suppose Africans are overcompensating versus how many they would like to have? Isn’t it possible that they actually want every child they have and would like to have more if they could?

            Many mothers love their children and they do wish they had more. It seems only the well indoctrinated in first world countries view children as a burden. Whether indoctrination is a bad or a good thing is besides the point. The point is that good health care cannot slow population growth, but providing abortions and sterilization might. So how might vaccines slow population growth? The only way I can imagine them working this way is if they are used to sterilize people or increase the number of deadly illnesses in the population. Anything else goes against reality.

            http://www.prlog.org/11223819-abortion-stillbirth-events-from-gardasil-far-exceed-all-other-vaccines.html

          • Sara Lucy

            First, I’ll ask you to go back and read what I wrote about *child brides* because what I wrote is about the extent of what I have to say on that subject. I am not personally in favor of population control, especially imposed by people outside of the culture that’s being targeted, but I do agree with getting healthcare interventions to women who need them, reducing the number of births to *child brides* not “married women.” And improving girls access to education. Beyond that, I am not going to argue in favor of any policies that aim to limit population growth. Separately, I agree with vaccine programs because vaccines work and they save lives.

            I very much disagree with you that they are meant for depopulation. The tetanus vaccine program used in developing nations, including sub-Saharan Africa, is meant to protect infants from neonatal tetanus which is unfortunately a somewhat common lethal illness. They usually contract tetanus during the time of birth when they are exposed to unclean birthing areas. Maternal immunization transfers antibodies to the babies to protect them.

            Perhaps you’ve recently heard about some myths regarding the tetanus program in Kenya. That was a story that came from some concerned Catholic Bishops in the area. A pro-life, Catholic blogger took a look at that issue and wrote about the origins of those fears and why it appeared to be little more than a myth: https://rationalcatholicblog.wordpress.com/2014/11/12/does-the-kenyan-unicef-tetanus-vaccine-contain-hcg-and-make-women-infertile/

            This link even includes the WHO response with the lab results if you’re interested: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_HCti7H55OzVXpMc2xDWGFaUE0/edit?pli=1

            Thanks for providing some sources this time. Around here, Sane Vax and NVIC are not considered good sources, and those are the sources for the first article you cited. Both are anti-vaccine groups with a history of having little regard for science, and advocating the total rejection of vaccines by promoting fear about their ingredients, etc.

            Regarding the flu vaccine miscarriage myth, I’ll recommend a blog by Tara Haelle, a science writer, who has written about the flaws in that study and includes links to original research so you don’t just have to take her word for it. In short, the author of that paper used VAERS data as raw data, which is extremely flawed research since there is no control group and the reports haven’t been verified as linked to the vaccine.
            http://www.redwineandapplesauce.com/2014/01/08/the-real-story-on-the-flu-vaccine-during-pregnancy/

            Ultimately, all you have to go on to support your claim right now that vaccines are part of a depopulation program is one statement made by Bill Gates that hasn’t been revealed to be true whether he meant it the way you said it or not. The last link you showed does in fact confirm that there is an interest in reducing population growth but I saw no mention of vaccines in that at all.

            The thing is, the people who want to reduce population growth have other accepted means for doing so. They also have plenty of support. Using vaccines secretly to do this would not only generate suspicion and rejection of vaccines, but would put vaccine workers in harms way. People in developing nations are often suspicious of western interventions already. Vaccine workers are dying in Pakistan now trying to immunize kids against polio.

            No one needs to make vaccines more controversial than they already are or they would be ineffective because people would not be accepting them. Every time rumors like this flare up, people begin rejecting vaccines and the only thing that changes is more people start getting diseases that vaccines could have prevented.

          • kedwa30

            Sara Lucy said: “First, I’ll ask you to go back and read what I wrote about *child brides* because what I wrote is about the extent of what I have to say on that subject.”

            Fair enough. Here is what you said, which I have reread:

            “The point I’m making is still very basic. The UNFPA reports that up to 30% of girls under 18 are giving birth in many developing countries, usually within marriages. When girls start giving birth at younger ages, this is associated with an increase in fecundity, or the number of children per woman.”

            Clearly your greatest expressed concern is the fecundity or number of children women are able to have. It seems you want to artificially limit how many children they can have by helping them to eliminate unborn children they have under a certain age which you have arbitrarily selected to be age 18, even though many states in the U.S. allow marriage under 18 and the age of sexual consent is 16. Yes, that is a very basic point. You think 30% of girls in Africa are starting to have babies too soon giving them an unfair ability to have more children and you wish to put a stop to that even when it is within a marriage.

            “Access to healthcare is a major barrier that these women face.”

            In other words, you want to give them birth control, condoms, abortion, and vaccines. I understand, believe me, I do. Especially the part of the vaccines: http://www.prlog.org/11223819-abortion-stillbirth-events-from-gardasil-far-exceed-all-other-vaccines.html

            “I am not personally in favor of population control, especially imposed by people outside of the culture that’s being targeted, but I do agree with getting healthcare interventions to women who need them, reducing the number of births to *child brides* not ‘married women.'”

            What you fail to realize is that your concept of ‘child bride’ being wrong is counter to their culture, thus you ARE doing what you say you are not in favor of especially doing. Why not ask those women what they need rather than imposing your cultural belief that they should not have increased fecundity?

            “And improving girls access to education.”

            As long as it’s the education you want them to have and not of their own culture.

            “Beyond that, I am not going to argue in favor of any policies that aim to limit population growth.”

            I dare say, the proposals you have should be enough!

            “Separately, I agree with vaccine programs because
            vaccines work and they save lives.”

            They do, when evil people are not using them as weapons.

            “I very much disagree with you that they are meant for depopulation.”

            Again, you try to tar and straw me. I am not a strawman. You seriously think I ever said that all vaccines are meant for depopulation? No, what I said was that Bill Gates intends to use them for depopulation. Vaccines were invented by good scientists who meant them for good. That does not mean they aren’t being weaponized.

            “The tetanus vaccine program used in developing nations, including sub-Saharan Africa, is meant to protect
            infants from neonatal tetanus which is unfortunately a somewhat common lethal illness. They usually contract tetanus during the time of birth when they are exposed to unclean birthing areas. Maternal immunization
            transfers antibodies to the babies to protect them.”

            Have you not seen this link yet? http://www.prlog.org/11223819-abortion-stillbirth-events-from-gardasil-far-exceed-all-other-vaccines.html

            Vaccines can kill unborn babies.

            Listen, when people buy a gun here in the U.S. they have to say why they are buying it and register it. They will say for hunting, or for personal protection, or target sports. They never say they are buying it to commit a murder or to rob a store. Why would Bill Gates come out and admit he is using vaccines to harm people? He wouldn’t. He’s going to lie.

            He wouldn’t get support for his foundation by telling people he wants to increase the growth rate, and yet, that is what vaccines should do if they are used to help people live. He has come up with a way to spin it while telling people what they want to hear, all the while sneaking in new ways to die.

            If a guy asks you for money so he can buy a gun so that he can be a guard at a bank, don’t believe him. He is going to use it to rob the bank or maybe he is just going to keep your money. Use common sense. Stop being so naive about every charity that asks for your money.

            “Perhaps you’ve recently heard about some myths regarding the tetanus program in Kenya.”

            Uh oh, here comes the spin.

            “That was a story that came from some concerned Catholic Bishops in the area. A pro-life, Catholic blogger took a look at that issue and wrote about the origins of those fears and why it appeared to be little more than a myth: https://rationalcatholicblog.w…”

            Why do you refer me to a blog? I’ll admit, it is better than not supporting your assertions at all, but blogs are opinion. You can’t find a verifiable source? I’ve actually heard nothing about tetanus programs in Kenya. However, a quick search using Google reveals that many blogs are talking about that here in 2014. That is a misinformation or disinformation campaign. The original and real issue was an HPV vaccine that was being pushed on several African countries. It was targeting 12 year old girls. But it’s not limited to Africa. This also happened in Nicaragua, Mexico, Nigeria, Tanzania and the Philippines.
            Since you like blogs so much here is one in return:
            http://www.rense.com/general79/vaxcc.htm

            “This link even includes the WHO response with the lab results if you’re interested: https://docs.google.com/file/d…”

            It’s not that I’m not interested in lab results. I just wish you would find an unbiased source. Ted Turner has a huge influence on all things under the U.N. and Ted Turner is overt about his Utopian vision of a 300 million global population. And the WHO is under the U.N.

            “Thanks for providing some sources this time.”

            Oh the irony.

            “Around here, Sane Vax and NVIC are not considered good sources, and those are the sources for the first article you cited. Both are anti-vaccine groups with a history of
            having little regard for science, and advocating the total rejection of vaccines by promoting fear about their ingredients, etc.”

            I see, so if you can’t argue against the data, then smear the source. That’s just a variation of the ad hominem fallacy.

            And why do you suppose these sources have such a reputation for being against vaccines? Could it be that your religious leaders painted them that way to keep you from listening to them lest you convert? You are so fooled by the propaganda, but as Mark Twain said:
            “It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

            “Regarding the flu vaccine miscarriage myth, I’ll recommend a blog by Tara Haelle, a science writer, who has written about the flaws in that study and includes links to original research so you don’t just have to take her
            word for it. In short, the author of that paper used VAERS data as raw data, which is extremely flawed research since there is no control group and the reports haven’t been verified as linked to the vaccine.”

            Another blog. I appreciate the synopsis. If I wanted to read more blogs, I know how to use Google. Blogs are opinion. That this one has links to original research is special, I’ll grant you that much. That this person makes a living writing about science does not bode well for lack of bias. No professional science writer wants to be labeled a “bad source” by going against the religion.

            “Ultimately, all you have to go on to support your claim right now that vaccines are part of a depopulation program is one statement made by Bill Gates”

            False. I have told you to look outside the video and told you about the Georgia Guidestones, Ted Turner, etc. And there is more that I haven’t said, but why cast pearls at swine?

            “that hasn’t been revealed to be true whether he meant it the way you said it or not.”

            Use your common sense. When you know that growth rate of a healthier population naturally increases compared to a diseased population, then how else can we interpret Bill Gates’ utopian vision of lowering population growth? I’m sorry I can’t impart common sense to you. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

            “The last link you showed does in fact confirm that there is an interest in reducing population growth but I saw no mention of vaccines in that at all.”

            How could you be so obtuse and not be a troll? Are you serious? Of the two links I provided in the message you are responding to, the last one (the one on the bottom) specifically addressed how new vaccines given during pregnancy had a rate of stillbirth events that far exceeded older vaccines. The only other link may not have addressed vaccines, but there is a good reason for that. Only in movies is there an evil character that gives away his dastardly plan just in time for the hero to spoil it. If the people who advocate to lower population told everyone how they intended to do it in an evil way, don’t you think it would be a little too easy to thwart their evil plans?

            “The thing is, the people who want to reduce population growth have other accepted means for doing so.”

            Reducing growth is not the true goal. That is only the tip of the iceberg. When you want to decimate a population, you don’t tell them your true intentions. Wars are won with deceit.

            “They also have plenty of support.”

            Yes, there are many zealous followers of Bill Gates, Ted Turner, et al who are smart enough to read between the lines, keep their mouths shut, and nod their head with support. They believe it will only affect the poor people and to their own benefit. They don’t want to have to share the world with so many people.

            “Using vaccines secretly to do this would not only
            generate suspicion and rejection of vaccines, but would put vaccine workers in harms way.”

            For people who are trying to depopulate the planet, this works toward their goal. If you get one of their tainted vaccines, you die or become sterile. If you refuse all vaccines, you die from their artificially created plague. Either way, it works towards their goal. Will a mob commit violence and kill vaccine workers? People die? That’s part of the plan!!

            “People in developing nations are often suspicious
            of western interventions already. Vaccine workers are dying in Pakistan now trying to immunize kids against polio.”

            But that is part of the plan. Bill Gates didn’t die, but even if he did, he is only a brainwashed mouthpiece. He is the victim of indoctrination and mind control.

            “No one needs to make vaccines more controversial than they already are or they would be ineffective because people would not be accepting them.”

            That’s a false bifurcation. The fearmongers work both extremes. The reasonable approach would be to acknowledge that there is a security breach and work to make vaccines more secure and safe rather than hide the issue or deny it exists. Think about it. If someone had a key to your house and was sneaking in and stealing $100 a month, would you, in the interest of not having your family panic, deny that the problem exists? Or would you change the locks and warn your family regardless of what your family thought?

            “Every time rumors like this flare up, people begin rejecting vaccines and the only thing that changes is more people start getting diseases that vaccines could have prevented.”

            First, you need to know there is a difference between a rumor and a threat. If you dismiss a threat as a rumor, it’s going to come back to haunt you. If someone sets off a fire alarm but you don’t see smoke, then do you ignore the alarm or do you evacuate just to be sure? As I said, with propaganda, there will be people to work both extremes. People who are actually anti-vax are one extreme, and they are working for or fooled by the same people and for the same reason. There are people who will set off fire alarms when there is no fire. They want the ‘boy who cried wolf’ effect. They intentionally sound false alarms and don’t mind when they get caught doing it, because their intent is to make people dismiss anyone else who may sound an alarm. This is a manipulation of human nature; it is propaganda.
            I am not anti-vax. Vaccines are a tool that may also be used as a weapon. They must be respected and used with caution. I didn’t say not to use them or to use them only rarely; I said use with caution. Know the origin of the vaccine, who made it, what adjutants are in it, etc.

            Because we know that there are people in the world who are actively working to kill us, we must take sensible precautions.

          • Sara Lucy

            “What you fail to realize is that your concept of ‘child bride’ being
            wrong is counter to their culture, thus you ARE doing what you say you
            are not in favor of especially doing.”

            Right. I make exceptions to cultural sensitivity whenever it involves abuse, which in this case impregnating a child who is twice as likely to suffer complications from pregnancy than a mature woman, is abuse especially when she’s traded like a slave to an older man to be wed. Underage girls are more likely to suffer obstetric fistulas (and accompanying stillbirth) when they give birth in places where c-sections are unavailable. This potentially means lifelong incontinence and an inability to carry another pregnancy, ever.

            I am also opposed to child prostitution and pedophilia, even where that may be a cultural norm.

          • kedwa30

            Sara Lucy said: ” I make exceptions to cultural sensitivity whenever it involves abuse,
            which in this case impregnating a child who is twice as likely to suffer
            complications from pregnancy than a mature woman, is abuse especially
            when she’s traded like a slave to an older man to be wed.”

            Okay, so you disagree with arranged marriages because you would rather see teens getting pregnant outside of wedlock and then having abortions, and you disagree with the fact God made women to be able to get pregnant at such a young age. What age would you have made puberty happen if you were God? Eighty?

            You haven’t provided any evidence that these young women don’t want to be married, don’t want to engage in sex, and don’t want to have babies as soon as they are able. If they actually died from having babies too soon, then wouldn’t that lower population growth? While you are convinced there is a greater risk to the woman when she has children as soon as she is able, what are the actual statistics? How many women do you think you will be saving by forcing your religious beliefs on them?
            Would you stop with that, or would you force Atheism on them as well?

          • Sara Lucy

            I provided a link that explains the point I’m making with the stats you’re pretending you want, but if you refuse to read it then I guess I cannot help you understand.
            I’m not an atheist.

          • kedwa30

            I had said “Would you stop with that, or would you force Atheism on them as well?”

            Sara Lucy responded “I’m not an atheist.”

            So it’s fair to say you don’t actually have any compunctions against forcing your own cultural views onto others including your religious beliefs?

            Can you explain to me how providing vaccines is equivalent to making c-sections available? Is Bill Gates’ foundation dispersing surgeries or merely sterilizing people with vaccines? Which is it?

          • kedwa30

            Clearly I missed it. Could you post the stats, please, so that I don’t miss it this time? I could refer you to the WWW to find the evidence backing up my assertions, but I don’t. I bring every fact into this conversation and use WWW to back up my assertions. Please treat me at least as civilly as I have treated you.

          • kedwa30

            “Congratulations on having a reasonable position on human
            rights.”

            Why are you always trying to make this about me? Why won’t you discuss the issues?

          • kedwa30

            I said “Some people choosing to have fewer kids based on propaganda is not evidence that healthier people naturally choose to have fewer kids.”

            You said “Who cares? If they are happy in their choices that are based on propaganda, then that’s their issue not yours.”

            Why are you always trying to make this about me? Why won’t you discuss the issues? We were talking about the belief (which you share with Bill Gates and many other people) that population growth is naturally lowered by good health care (as opposed to other factors). My point is that propaganda is the cause, not good health care. You react by telling me it’s none of my business if a madman fools people into sterilizing themselves for the purpose of committing genocide. “Who cares?” you ask.
            Apparently you don’t care whether you’re hypothesis is true or false so long as you get in the last word and you feel triumphant. You don’t care about being honest with yourself or anyone else, so long as you defend your position and win the debate. That is nothing more than eristics. You don’t care to find the truth; you only care about feeling superior. You don’t care about a woman’s rights. You only want to win this debate. You would use any lie to do it, you are so desperate. I pity you.

            You’re an internet junkie. You are addicted to being a bully or a troll in these comments. If you had any love of real science you would have an open mind to revise your hypothesis as soon as it was falsified. Stop beating a dead horse. Talking bad about me is not going to revive your falsified hypothesis.

          • kedwa30

            “Because a woman can naturally conceive and carry a dozen or more children in her lifetime starting at the age of 15 or younger, doesn’t mean she needs to do that to meet your perverted view of what is “natural” and therefore acceptable.”

            Proof that you can tear down a strawman as quickly as you build it.

          • kedwa30

            I said “What leads to better education? People having access to true information and the time to digest it.”

            You asked “Does this require infrastructure? If so, what types?”

            No. It only requires knowledgeable people being willing to teach what they know to the naive.

            I said “I am against the use of vaccines to artificially lower
            population by sneaking in extra stuff that sterilizes people or makes them into a carrier of a disease which they then give to anyone who hasn’t gotten the vaccination.”

            You said “Congratulations on having a reasonable position on human rights. Most of the world agrees with you, including the people who are planning and implementing vaccine programs in developing nations.”

            Do you really think you know and speak for everyone? No, you said ‘most’. Do you acknowledge, then, that there are some evil people sabotaging those noble efforts of the majority? Do you confess that there are murderers and conniving power mongers such as Hitler was?
            There are people alive today who are using their vast wealth to attempt to decimate the global population by using the very things we take for good for their own evil purposes. GMO’s were meant to reduce the need for pesticides and make farming cheaper. Ask some farmers how they like being locked into a Mansanto contract. GMO’s are linked to cancer. What was meant for good has now been banned by numerous countries. Why do you suppose? Put on your thinking cap and open your mind to what is really going on. Bill Gates is predicting his vaccines will result in lowered population growth not because healthy populations grow more slowly, but because he knows the vaccines that his organization will be using are tainted. I am not anti-vaccine. I am anti-fraud. Bill Gates claim is a science fraud. It is propaganda.
            I’m pretty certain that Bill Gates feels he is doing this for the good of mankind. Everyone wants to do good. They just have different concepts of what good is. The problem here is that Bill Gates has been brainwashed at one of the Bilderburg conferences that he and his wife regularly attend.

            I said “Yes, but money isn’t everything”

            You said “Economics isn’t exactly about money. It’s about resource allocation, specifically in an environment subject to scarcity (like the planet we live on.)”

            Excellent point. In a socialist system, resources would be allocated fairly to the needy and not hoarded by the greedy.

            “Increased economic productivity means the value of a person’s efforts is increased. Not monetary value only.”

            This is where you’re wrong. When everyone is working at their maximum productivity, then the value of each person’s efforts decreases since there is greater supply than demand. The current economic system is capitalism, not socialism. The super rich hoard resources creating artificial scarcity in order to drive up the market value so that they can stay rich.

            I said “You cannot stop population growth and expect the economy to continue to improve. You clearly don’t know enough to make an accurate prediction. That’s
            naivete.”

            You said “It sounds like you’ve been reading Philip Longman.”

            Who? I very seldom read a book these days and I don’t watch TV, except for certain entertainment on Hulu. But enough about me. Why do you continue to try to pigeonhole me? I am not a strawman. You cannot stuff me into a hole. Respect my individuality.

            “The problems faced by an aging population do not negate the problems faced by societies with high birth rates and limited access to basic healthcare and education.”

            Another strawman? Good for you. You can build them and you can burn them down.

            “Nor is atmospheric phenomena put on hold so we can sort out a population aging crisis.”

            Where did that come from? Non sequitur.

            “Try again.”

            Why don’t you try again. Try to address the points I actually brought up rather than tearing up some strawmen you built before my eyes.

            I said “Some people choosing to have fewer kids based on propaganda is not evidence that healthier
            people naturally choose to have fewer kids.”

            You said “Who cares? If they are happy in their choices that are based on propaganda, then that’s their issue not yours.”

            Clearly the point went over your head. We are discussing your belief that population growth naturally lowers due to good health. Whether or not anyone cares about people being manipulated by propaganda is off topic.

            “Because a woman can naturally conceive and carry a dozen or more children in her lifetime starting at the age of 15 or younger, doesn’t mean she needs to do that to meet your perverted view of what is “natural” and
            therefore acceptable.”

            I support a woman’s choice not to get pregnant. Again you have wandered off topic. Why don’t you defend your belief that a healthy population naturally stops growing because of their good health? You are too busy accusing me of being anti-feminist or something.

            “Being made aware of the fact she’s a human
            being with rights, including the right to make her own choices, may be your idea of “indoctrination” but it’s not mine.”

            Earlier you said ‘WHO CARES’ and yet now it seems you are defending the propaganda as feminism. Is convincing a woman that she needs to kill her unborn child so that she won’t be poor really feminism? Or isn’t that simply your twisted and perverted version?
            Which is it?: 1. Who cares? or 2. Fooling people into sterilizing themselves is a woman’s right to choose.
            Either way you have strayed off topic without actually defending your belief that healthy populations stop growing because they are healthy. Unless you consider infertility a sign of good health. If a barren womb is a sign of good health, then is having a period a disease?

          • Sara Lucy

            “I very seldom read a book these days and I don’t watch TV, except for certain entertainment on Hulu.”

            I recommend you start reading books. It will help you put your ideas into context.

          • kedwa30

            Sara Lucy said “I recommend you start reading books. It will help you put your ideas into context.”

            I will take that as constructive criticism and I may do so in the future. Thank you.

  • Grace Joubarne

    If they are so safe, then why has the USA Vaccine Court paid out over $3 billion in vaccine-related damage and death claims? If they are safe and the CDC reliable, then why has it’s two top scientists come out admitting they participated in manipulating the data to hide the vaccine-autism link?

    As for Bill Gates, all you need do is read the quotes attributed to him about depopulation…presently he ranks as one of the greatest advocates for depopulation. In fact, he boasts that vaccine, GMOs, psychiatric drugs are the best ways to quickly depopulate the world’s population down to 500 million by 2035. The Rockefeller Foundation was set up in the 1930’s precisely to develop a vaccine effective and efficient enough to depopulation the world quickly.

    Feel lucky now? No one has a right to subject children to mercury and god-awful substances…taking a chance with a perfectly healthy child’s life on the say-so of a group of murders in white coats is hardly ‘good parenting’.

    • Oy fucking vey. Stop already with the stupid bullshit. I’m tired of seeing it. I’m tired of debunking it. Come back with something brand new and original, and I may decide to be nice and teach you something. Respond with more of the same tired bullshit, and I’ll mock you like you’ve not be since Sally mae put gum in your hair.

      • kedwa30

        Clowning for upvotes doesn’t get you real respect you know.

        • I get upvotes because people agree with what I say. That’s how it works.

          Most of the time, my comments are not seen as humorous, and I still get the upvotes. Think about it.

          • kedwa30

            Like I said, clowning doesn’t get you real respect. You’re a bully because you feel empty inside and even the negative social feedback feels better than nothing. I pity you.

          • You should go back to school. Your reading comprehension is severely lacking. As is your vocabulary. Yikes.

          • kedwa30

            Look, I’m feeding you more attention. You are addicted to the attention I give you. I’m the dealer and you are my crack hoe. Beg for more, bitch.

          • Bahaha! You dolt! You say I’m looking for attention to you, but you’re the one searching out my old Disqus comments to try to reply to.

            Damn that pesky evidence.

          • kedwa30

            The difference between me and you is that I’m pulling the strings and the strings are pulling you.

          • Whatever helps you sleep at night & feel better about yourself.

          • D Titus

            Attacking the messenger does not change the truth. Pls dude show something to back up your opinion. THX have a nice day.

          • Well, if you’re too stupid to see how my comments is true, I’m not gonna draw you a map. I’m not nice enough to do that.

        • D Titus

          It does to those involved with hiding the truth.

      • D Titus

        Geez dude so you are saying that this is not true?

        USA Vaccine Court paid out over $3 billion

        CDC reliable, then why has it’s two top scientists come out admitting
        they participated in manipulating the data to hide the vaccine-autism
        link?

        • Yes, I am saying it is not true.

          You guys keep trotting out the Vaccine Court, and them paying out X billion dollars. Yet, your math fails you all spectacularly. Here’s the thing: If vaccines were as bad as y’all think, there’d be quadrillions paid out, and there would be billions of deaths, disabilities, and what-have-you. Why? There are millions of vaccines given out each year.

          Another thing: Would y’all please toss the “vaccines cause autism” myth? Folks are born with ASD. It’s impossible to get from a vaccine. They don’t travel through time, nor do they change DNA.

          • kedwa30

            There were a lot more cigarettes sold than vaccines, and yet the payout from the tobacco companies was not in the quadrillions. Try again.

          • You know what else there isn’t? A bunch of morons spouting the lie that cigarettes are linked to autism, and trying to quote mine the CAERS, or the Tobacco Court.

          • kedwa30

            How much acid did you have to do to come to the conclusion that tobacco companies didn’t pay out trillions because tobacco is not linked to autism?

          • (facepalm) Really? Now you’re saying tobacco causes autism? Which one? There’s a spectrum, remember?

            While you’re at it, explain the mechanism which tobacco, and which part of that plant, causes the genetic mutation which leads to ASD.

          • D Titus

            Are you aware of all of the poisons that are put into packaged cigarettes? It is possible that these will cause health problems.
            Do you think that poisons could poison a person?

            Why does the government let big corp add poison to food, drink, drugs and cigs?

          • kedwa30

            No, that’s not what I said. Read it again. Keep reading it until you get it. I know it will take some time, but with hard work and determination, you can improve your reading comprehension.

            Of course I don’t dismiss the possibility that second hand smoke could cause autism. As for the ‘which one’ remark, you have made a fool out of yourself. It’s as if you asked which phase of the moon is the real moon. There is only one moon, even though there is a whole spectrum of phases.
            Of course you will come back and say ‘nuh uh, ders other moons too around other planerts’. Or perhaps you will say ‘nuh uh, ders satelites NASA put up der dats also moons, der’.
            Whatever. You don’t want to discuss the issues because you know you would get powned. You’ve got nothing. You’re impotent; weak. You use abusive language because it makes you feel strong as you hide behind your computer screen. You’re only trying to compensate for what’s missing in your life. Balls.

          • Riiiiggghhhhtttt. I’m the one hiding behind my computer screen, using my real name, and my photo. You’re a great detective, “kedwa30.”

          • kedwa30

            Your claim that you use your real name is not any proof. For all I know you could be an impostor. However, my point was that you would never talk so abusively to my face. But if you did, that would mean I was wrong about you. Then I would have to come to the new conclusion which would be even worse than the opinion I have of you now. As it is, I think you are abusive in text to make up for allowing yourself to be a doormat in person. However, if you are abusive in person… well that is pretty despicable. Either way, you would do better to stick to the issues rather than get off on these tangents were we talk about each other.

          • Still nothing about the picture. I’m guessing you tried to image search it, but couldn’t find similar ones, huh?

            You’re right: I wouldn’t talk so abusively to your face. I’d have left your presence long before my ire got to the point it has here which is due to you following me around. Were you to attempt to do so in the real world, I’d have been arrested for kicking you between the uprights. Willfully stupid people piss me off to no end, so I try to avoid them.

            I really don’t care what you think of me. You spouting bullshit about things that save lives, and trying to get others to put children in danger by trying to get them to not vaccinate makes you on par with other child abusers and rapists in my mind.

          • kedwa30

            Following you around? You’re paranoid. I most certainly have no need to do an image search. Clicking on your name takes me to your profile where I can easily see statistics on how many posts you have made and how many upvotes you got. So what? Looking at someone’s profile is just being social. If you didn’t want people to view it then you should have made it private. I don’t know what to think of you now. You’re technologically savvy enough to know about Google image search, but you seem naive about the fact you have a profile. I conclude it’s just an act. You’re probably a pro stalker and you are only trying to seem naive. You are painfully shy in person and you avoid conflict in person by leaving rather than asserting yourself as an equal. You only dream of committing acts of violence, but they are pervasive daydreams that cause you to have to count to ten before you wet yourself in panic.

          • kedwa30

            Wow, that comment about child abusers and rapists made me curious seeing as you usually are projecting. So I looked up your name on the Megan’s Law list and voila! There you are! You are a certified child rapist!

          • And you had the balls to talk about me saying shit I would’t in person. Be very, very grateful that you are able to hide online.

          • kedwa30

            My name is my unique facebook identifier. Who’s hiding? Anyone that bothered to look up ‘kedwa30’ would easily find my given name, my picture, my phone number, and my address. It’s also my email and my password… shhh, don’t tell.

          • D Titus

            Well then your ignoring reality. Again!

            proof #1 The government telling you how much has been paid to date. 2.8 billion.
            http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data.html

            Proof #2 CDC admits to adding mercury (Thimerosal) in vaccines.
            http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

            Well, that was easy! Have a nice one.

    • Avery

      “In fact, he boasts that vaccine, GMOs, psychiatric drugs are the best ways to quickly depopulate the world’s population down to 500 million by 2035.”
      That is a lie.

  • Pingback: Conspiracy theories and Ebola virus transmission | Healthy Lifestyle 101()

  • ka9q

    Your description of quote mining defines it as a form of cherry-picking. It certainly can be that, but in my experience it’s usually something even worse: quoting someone (usually a respected authority) out of context to make them appear to say something other than what they actually said. This isn’t selectively cherry picking favorable arguments from unfavorable ones, it’s manufacturing a lie.

    Even worse, the quote-miner usually tries to steal the authority’s reputation and credibility for him or herself.

    Creationists are accomplished quote-miners, and one of their best examples is quoting Charles Darwin as apparently saying it is absurd to think that something as complex as the eye developed through evolution. Darwin only set up this argument so he could demolish it, but that part is deliberately omitted from the quote.

    • I think formally quote mining and cherry picking are the same logical fallacy. But I do agree that we should use them differently.

      • ka9q

        I think they’re at least subtly different. Cherry picking carefully selects only those (true) facts that support one’s argument. Quote mining actively misrepresents an authority into saying something they didn’t say. Both are dishonest logical fallacies, but quote mining is considerably worse. Not only does it turn a truth into a falsehood, it does so at the expense of the reputation of the original speaker.

        • D Titus

          Do you mean like CNN? “Not only does it turn a truth into a falsehood, it does so at the expense of the reputation of the original speaker.”

          • WTF does CNN have to do with this conversation. Are you so ignorant, so uneducated, that you have no clue what we’re discussing here? I’m assuming so.

          • D Titus

            Are you ka9q as well? Playing different posters on this page? I was responding for a clarification to ka9q’s comment which was place in quotes. Are you so ignorant that you do not know what quotes mean? I hope not. Why are you answering for him if you are not playing multiple posters on this page? And I’m sure cnn agrees with your point of view on this topic. Which is probably why cnn ratings have dropped big time.

        • I see where you went that. That’s actually a brilliant description. I do rarely discuss quote mining, because it’s so transparently lame.

  • Jenny

    Wow. I didn’t know the Indian Supreme Court was anti-vax.

    • Jenny

      And yes I am being sarcastic

  • Landscutz

    So vaccines don’t cause
    autism. Really? If you don’t believe the millions that claim
    the dTap vaccine causes autism, then perhaps you’ll believe the manufacturer
    themselves on page 11 of 13 of their vaccine insert which can be found here:

    http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf

    If you can’t find it, it
    says “Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine
    include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction,
    cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia,
    neuropathy, somnolence and apnea.

    There are millions of
    Americans who will testify their children came down with autism in the days
    after receiving this and other vaccines.
    The reason this occurs is because of the adjuvants they contain as
    described on page one of the insert, including mercury, aluminum, polysorbate
    80 and formaldehyde. These are potent
    neruo-toxins which cross the blood brain barrier and destroy brain motor neuron
    myelin sheaths, which can be seen under a microscope here:

    As of March 2012, there
    was a total of 66,654 hepatitis B vaccine-related adverse events reported to the federal
    Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), including reports of headache,
    irritability, extreme fatigue, brain inflammation, convulsions, rheumatoid
    arthritis, optic neuritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, Guillain Barre Syndrome
    (GBS) and neuropathy. There have been more than 1500 hepatitis B
    vaccine-related deaths reported, including deaths classified as sudden infant
    death syndrome (SIDS)
    (http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Hepatitis-B.aspx)

    Italian court finds MMR
    caused autism:

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/05/italian-court-rules-urabe-mumps-strain-of-mmr-causes-autism.html

    Michael Belkin Testimony
    to Congress on Hepatitis B Vaccine:

    http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/michael-belkin-testimony-to-congress-on-hepatitis-b-vaccine/#.VCTXPfldWSo

    Paul Offit’s conflict of
    interest (follow the money):

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-independent-are-vaccine-defenders/

    Dr. William Thompson,
    whistleblower:

    http://www.naturalnews.com/046750_autistic_children_vaccines_CDC.html

    Julie Louise Gerberding
    the former director of the CDC is now the head of vaccine research at
    Merck. Talk about a conflict of
    interest! Did you know the CDC owns a
    patent on the soon to be promoted ebola vaccine?
    (http://www.naturalnews.com/046290_ebola_patent_vaccines_profit_motive.html)

    Why would that be
    anyway?

    In 1986 Congress passed
    a law which makes it impossible to sue vaccine manufacturers for the damage
    their products inflict. Meanwhile
    billions have been paid out by the so called vaccine court which took the place
    of real courts. The existence of this
    law alone is sufficient to prove the “anti-vaxers” are on to
    something.

    Why do the Amish have NO
    incidence of autism in their community?
    You got it…..they don’t vaccinate.

    You’ll also no doubt be
    interested in what’s going on elsewhere in the world where the media isn’t
    controlled by by big pharma:

    Vietnam ceases use of
    dTap after deaths:

    http://www.naturalnews.com/041628_infant_mortality_hepatitis_b_vaccines.html

    http://vactruth.com/2014/10/05/bill-gates-vaccine-crimes/?utm_source=The+Vaccine+Truth+Newsletter&utm_campaign=8f2f467842-10_01_2014_autism&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ce7860ee83-8f2f467842-406516277

    and here:

    http://vactruth.com/2013/11/26/vaccine-associated-polio/

    HPV? Read on:

    http://truthaboutgardasil.org/

    How about hepB:

    http://naturalsociety.com/flashback-the-hepatitis-b-vaccine-is-linked-to-infant-death-multiple-sclerosis-and-autoimmune-disorders/

    It goes on and on and on
    and on – the truth that is – when you take the time to look for it.

    You might consider doing a little more thorough
    research before you suggest you know what you’re talking about on this
    topic. There are dozens of excellent books,
    thousands of articles and of course, uncounted destroyed lives.

    Upton Sinclair said it
    best: “It is difficult to get a man to
    understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

    Let me guess, Mr.
    Raptor, you receive absolutely no funding from big pharma or their
    proxies. Right!

    Good luck to your kids
    and grandkids getting vaccinated and remember my dentist’s words: “Try to vaccinate my kids and I’ll sue
    you for assault.”

    • ka9q

      “Adverse events reported during use” means exactly that. If I get struck by a truck after getting a flu shot, that would also be an adverse event, but it wouldn’t mean that there was a cause-and-effect relationship.

      Try doing some homework on real scientific publications, not the ravings of anti-vaxxer know-nothings.

      • kedwa30

        While correlation is not necessarily cause, it takes a special kind of ignorance to dismiss “adverse events reported during use” as being unrelated without some kind of supportive evidence. That’s the reason real scientists keep track of potential side effects: in order to identify related adverse reactions. A correlation has been identified; that is evidence to be considered, whereas you are attempting to dismiss it as mere coincidence. Is there any evidence to support your assertion? No. All you have is your opinion based on your imagination.
        It’s too bad you weren’t struck by a truck. It may have knocked some sense into you. If 50,000 people get struck by a truck after receiving a flu shot, while a control group does not have any such adverse event, it may yet be that the flu shot did not directly cause a truck to hit them, but it may be that that particular flu shot caused hallucinations which in turn caused those people to jump in front of trucks. Your personal incredulity is no barrier to a reasonable explanation. It is only a barrier to your own understanding.

        • Look up the phrase “Correlation does not equal causation,” and explain it here using your own words. If you can do that, then I’ll be nice and explain why you’re wrong about vaccines.

          • kedwa30

            Are you seriously asking me to repeat myself? Why don’t you just look up and re-read what I wrote? Do you think that what I wrote was not in my own words? Do you see any quote marks? Your level of ignorance is astonishing!

            Here, I will post it again: “While correlation is not necessarily cause…”
            My own words.
            Get a life. Why should I think you know anything about vaccines when you are obviously a troll? Do support your assertions with evidence and try to stick to logic 101. It’s so annoying when trolls waste my time with cheap eristics such as empty arrogance. Go look up what arrogance means. Try an authoritative dictionary such as Merriam-Webster, not a “web definition” from Urbane Dickshunnery.

          • Hunh. You’re stupider than your other comments indicated. That’s surprising, yet shouldn’t be. Anti-vax nuts are notoriously stupid. I think you take the cake, though.

          • kedwa30

            The best argument you have is ad hominem? That says more about you.

          • (facepalm) Everyone has the right to be stupid, but you’re abusing that privilege. First: An ad hominem (Latin for “to the man” or “to the person”), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person’s character, rather than to the content of their arguments. So, me calling you stupid based on your comments is not an ad hominem. Learn what words mean before you attempt to use them. Second, none of your anti-vax arguments are original. I’m tired of seeing them, hence my original comment, which you failed to answer properly. So…

          • kedwa30

            A privilege is not a right, and the fact that you think those words are interchangeable says a lot about you.
            You are desperate to paint me as lacking in intelligence, and yet, your desperation reveals that you have the deficiency.

          • You lack evidence. So your only alternative is to invent an ad hominem attack. You amuse me kedwa.

          • kedwa30

            You seem to think you can afford casting aspersions.

          • Hey, dummy, look at the definition, here: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/privilege

          • kedwa30

            You don’t go to a thesaurus for a definition. Try a dictionary. A thesaurus will give you similar words. That doesn’t mean they mean the same. You will find that a privilege is granted by an authority, while a right is defended from authority. Driving a car on the public highways is a licensed privilege, not a right.
            That’s your English lesson for today. Go take a nap so that you may retain the knowledge I have just bestowed upon you.

          • And now we have evidence that you are too stupid to click on links. For your information, Einstein, the definition is included on that page so you can choose which synonym you want to utilize.

          • kedwa30

            “failed to answer properly”

            Meaning I didn’t fall into your faux intellect trap that you are stuck in. If you weren’t a troll, you would stop with the fallacies and present a logical argument. Instead you attempt to gain the image of being intelligent by calling me stupid. I’ve got news for you: I could actually be stupid and you still wouldn’t be intelligent for calling me stupid. The fact that you think you can elevate yourself by being mean to others only reveals you to be of the worst kind of character: a bully.
            Now let’s stop discussing each other’s character and would be so kind as to present some kind of intelligent remark about the content of vaccines that may or may not harm people.

          • Bzzzt! Wrong answer! Thanks for playing.

            You’ve not demonstrated that you are intelligent enough to understand what I would say about them. Here’s a hint though: It’s the exact opposite of what Mercola, Adams, McCarthy, Jones, et al. do.

          • kedwa30

            You’re just trolling for another hit of attention. If you had anything worthwhile to contribute to the discussion, why didn’t you post it?

          • At the moment, I’m having fun mocking your idiocy. If you didn’t spout the same, old, tired, and debunked anti-vax bullshit, you’d not get the mockery.

          • kedwa30

            So you say. And yet your clowning only makes you look ridiculous. I’ve already called your bluff and you still have nothing to show but a flaccid sack. Oh, wait, is that a pair of socks in there or are you happy to get another hit of my attention? You crackhead! You just can’t get enough of me. You have absolutely no self control.

          • ROFL. Keep going, imbecile. We’re having fun laughing at you.

          • An ad hominem matters ONLY if you have no evidence. The facts are thus: there is absolute NO evidence that vaccines cause autism. You deny that evidence. Thus you’re a dumbass. That’s not an ad hominem. It’s merely a observation on your lack of intellect, and your woeful ignorance.

          • kedwa30

            The fact that you refuse to accept the correlation of autism to vaccines is only evidence of your ignorance. Even if there was in fact no evidence to link vaccines to autism, the absence of acceptable data is not conclusive that there is no evidence. It simply would mean that acceptable evidence hasn’t yet been found.
            It’s like an imbecile saying that until you show him a bacteria without some kind of gizmo being involve, he’s not going to believe they exist. Well, just because he refuses to look into the microscope, disqualifying it as a gizmo, does not mean other people can’t accept the evidence.
            You choose to reject the evidence before you. That doesn’t mean there isn’t evidence.

          • D Titus

            Name calling equals anti-social behavior. Anti-Social behavior equals ?

          • Incorrect. After spending enough time to explain to you what qualifies as evidence, and that the evidence nullifies the hypothesis that vaccines causes autism, there is no longer a need to be civil. You’re a dumbass. Case closed. Let’s move on.

          • D Titus

            Please show me what you have dis-proven so I know what you are talking about. THX. The simple fact that no Amish have autism and do not take any vaccines speaks volumes.

            Now you add that to the fact that mercury causes autism, and the cdc claims to add mercury to vaccines. How can you not understand that vaccines with mercury cause autism.
            Here is the cdc admitting to using mercury in vaccines.

            http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/index.html?s_cid=cs_748

            http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/03/22/u-s-government-concedes-that-mercury-causes-autism.aspx

            http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-caught-hiding-data-showing-mercury-in-vaccines-linked-to-autism/

          • It does not, you idjit. Name calling is usually due to frustration, or recognizing another’s failings. As I just demonstrated.

          • D Titus

            Anti-vaxers are notoriously stupid.

            generally known and talked of; especially : widely and unfavorably known

            I do not think that you could prove this statement.

          • You’d be wrong.

          • D Titus

            Okay then prove it so I can apologize to you. THX

          • Scroll up and read. There’s tons of proof right on this very page.

          • D Titus

            Tons in plural form. So is that 2 tons for 4000 lbs?
            1,000,000 tons for 2 billion Ibs?

            Are you a scribe from ancient Egypt?

            Are you aware that organizations, government and corporate deceive in order to make more money? Do you think that no one has ever lied in corporate or government business? Never!

            If I believed what was written on here was by a sane and honest person, I would still have to point out that mercury causes autism. I do not know the individuals so I cannot tell if they are honest or sane.

            Again I am not against vaccines.

            Like all sane people I’m against poisoning children.

            Have a nice day dude!

          • “Mercury causes autism.” Citation, please.

          • D Titus

            I will supply proof right after I find the conversion table for number words in a ton.
            I honestly doubt that you would be able to expect anything that proves you wrong sir. Have a nice one.

        • Sara Lucy

          “A correlation has been identified; that is evidence to be considered”

          But the clinical trial isn’t the place where causation would be determined since these were post-marketing reports. The relationship has been tested elsewhere and no causal relationship or any association has been found.

          You really only have to read the very next sentence beyond where you apparently stopped:

          “Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.”

          On the same page, in the German case-control study of almost 15,000 recipients, motor vehicle accidents and drownings were reported in Tripedia vaccine recipients. Similarly, these were not found to have a causal relationship to the vaccine.

          • kedwa30

            The inability to find a causal relationship due to lack of sufficient data is not conclusive evidence that there is no causal relationship. It simply means that more study is needed.

          • Sara Lucy

            What was once a “lack of sufficient data” back when Wakefield published is now a clear and compelling case of vaccines don’t cause autism, based on mountains of data exploring the question. The data is now sufficient and the conclusion has been reached. Vaccines don’t cause autism.

          • kedwa30

            You are confusing the issue. While a vaccine itself may not cause autism, the mercury used as a preservative in many vaccines when administered at a time when the brain is developing may be a cause of autism. Autism may also be caused by other sources of mercury and by other toxins, nevertheless, getting too many vaccines in a short time frame and thus getting a heavy toxic burden of mercury when a body is small and the brain is developing is dangerous. Restating the claim as “vaccines cause autism” is a strawman. It is the unnecessary toxins added to the vaccine that is what people who value their health are opposed to. Global depopulationists love to push propaganda to confuse the issues to make people who value their health look like they’re running from a falling sky. Similarly, they can sell unnecessary vaccines by intentionally spreading illness among a population and claiming that the cause is the people who refused to get vaccinated. An illness doesn’t magically appear in an unvaccinated person. A carrier had to give it to him. It has been acknowledged that HIV may have been spread through vaccines. What other illness could the global depopulationists be sneaking into vaccines to make people into carriers to spread illness to masses? We can only guess. Given their GMO capabilities, they can produce new ones whenever they like.

          • Sara Lucy

            “An illness doesn’t magically appear in an unvaccinated person. A carrier had to give it to him. It has been acknowledged that HIV may have been spread through vaccines.”

            No one claims that disease magically appears, but epidemiologists do study the origin and spread of disease in a population.
            Do you have any thoughts on the concept of “herd immunity”?

          • kedwa30

            ‘Herd immunity’ is the notion (not a scientific theory) that chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. (Wikipedia)
            The cries against anti-vaxers claiming that they are responsible for the outbreak of various illness is actually debunked by this notion of herd immunity. As long as most people are immune, then it still works. I haven’t heard anyone claim that the majority of the population is anti-vax.
            Until now? What are you saying?

          • Sara Lucy

            Are you familiar with “exemption clusters”?

          • kedwa30

            Not until you brought it up, but thanks to google, I can be an instant expert. This seems to be part of an increasingly complex paradigm to attempt to explain why pockets of people would mysteriously suffer an outbreak of some kind. But once again, where did patient zero get it from? People don’t magically get sick. Someone has to catch it from someone else who already had it. And that person had to have caught it from yet another person who was perhaps a carrier. And the carrier had to have gotten it from somewhere. I don’t believe in abiogenesis, and so I don’t believe viruses come from rocks and ice. I do believe germ warfare is real and the same people who create GMO products have the technology to make new diseases the same way.
            This is elementary logic. So called “exemption clusters” are vulnerable and make good targets. The fact that the CDC is able to identify them is scary!

          • Sara Lucy

            You should write science fiction. You seem to have the aptitude for it.

          • kedwa30

            Some people talk about things, some people talk about ideas… I can see that you are the type of person that likes to talk about other people. Why are you so fascinated by me?

          • kedwa30

            Isn’t it amazing how much of science fiction turned out to come true? People wrote about going to the moon long before anyone did it. Star Trek had the concept of transparent aluminum before ALON was actually realized. Just because you think something is incredible doesn’t mean it is impossible. Do you know how many zealous followers Bill Gates has? Neither do I. Hitler, Pole Pot, and many other ruthless murderers had many zealous followers. Just because most people want to be good doesn’t mean there aren’t some ruthless people who will take advantage of the good people for evil purposes. If you open your eyes to the possibility that Bill Gates has the intent to depopulate the Earth, then you will see the evidence. Bill Gates is not alone in this. The BP oil spill in the Gulf was no accident. All the wealthy people who go to the Bilderberg meetings get indoctrinated into the false paradigm that they must reduce global population to the ideal of five hundred million. This ideal was set in stone when the Georgia Guidestones were placed, presumably by a representative of Ted Turner. Ted Turner has publicly professed his belief that three hundred million would be an ideal global population.

            Wealth is power.


            According to Capgemini, the investable wealth of the global millionaire population rose 13.8% last year to a massive $52.6 trillion.

            To put that into perspective, the world’s millionaires have more combined wealth than the entire productive output of the Chinese economy, which was $8.3 trillion in 2012. It’s roughly three times the output of the entire U.S. economy, which produced around $16.3 trillion in 2012, according to the World Bank.

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/06/20/in-china-rich-population-growth-beats-world-average/

          • kedwa30

            How do epidemiologists trace the source of a virus when the virus comes from some vaccines but not all of them? It would be very easy for an insider working in the vaccine production to randomly adulterate some vaccines. It is likely to make the vaccine company more money when there is another illness that needs vaccinated against to drive demand for their product. If you can’t see the profit motive, perhaps you don’t understand economics.

            Are there evil people in the world that include doctors? Damn straight! Most people want to be good but are easily led astray by personal greed and selfishness. It’s really hard to be good all of the time. So people are willing to take bribes to look the other way. Vaccines are not secure. If a wealthy group of people wanted to depopulate the planet, then they could bribe a pharmaceutical giant with potential profits so that they didn’t even need to spend their own money. That is how smart these depopulationists are. They dangle their wealth like a carrot, never needing to give a single nibble to motivate the ass to move.

          • Sara Lucy

            Science.

          • kedwa30

            You might as well say ‘magic’ if your going to be that simple.
            Your faith in what you call ‘science’ is actually a pseudo-scientific religion. No real scientist has such blind faith in the scientific community. That is why there is peer review; to check the work of other scientists, because you cannot guarantee that one won’t commit fraud.
            But if one scientist can commit fraud, then a co-conspirator can fraudulently peer review his work to force the same conclusion. Perhaps the most well known example of fraud in science is Piltdown Man. It took forty years and the discovery of new techniques in order to convince the Scientific Community that it was fraud. There were scientists that suspected it was fraud all along, but without a way to prove it, the majority view won out for forty years.
            You follow the herd rather than thinking for yourself. If you could think for yourself, then why couldn’t you explain how epidemiologists trace the source of a virus when the virus comes from randomly adulterated vaccines? The honest answer is that they cannot. There would be too many exceptions for them to draw any concrete conclusions. That is the inherent weakness of the scientific method. It cannot always discover the truth. Your refusal to even consider this only demonstrates how well indoctrinated you are in your pseudo-scientific faith that you call ‘Science.’

          • Sara Lucy

            So you think Bill Gates created the smallpox virus?

          • kedwa30

            No, I am not a strawman.

            “The term “smallpox” was first used in Britain in the 15th century to distinguish variola from the “great pox” (syphilis).” Wikipedia

            Why do you troll so hard? Is it really that boring to have a normal conversation?

          • Sara Lucy

            I’m not an epidemiologist and I’m not particularly interested in going over the specifics with you. I find the historical story of John Snow the “father of epidemiology” to be adequate in explaining the basic purpose and methods of the science.

            http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/snowcricketarticle.html

            Modern epidemiology is more complex, and demands at least a basic understanding of biostatistics. Here’s a self-study course if you want to know more about the science of epidemiology.

            http://www.cdc.gov/ophss/csels/dsepd/ss1978/

            There are also open courses on the subject that aren’t directly associated with the CDC. Being perfectly honest here, I don’t think you’ll be able to get a comprehensive understanding of epidemiology if you shy away from any resource that is associated with the CDC.

          • kedwa30

            So you admit you have faith or a religious belief in science without having a true understanding. You think that science can do anything including finding the source of an illness when that source is random vaccines.

            If you had an understanding of science, then you would know that scientists would be reluctant to conclude the source of an illness was random vaccines unless they had strong evidence. When such evidence is well hidden by perpetrators, then the only responsible conclusion they would come to is that they don’t know. Real scientists have no problem admitting when they don’t know. It is pseudo scientists that claim science, like a god, can do anything.

          • lilady R.N.

            Show us one damn case study where HIV was spread by vaccines…and I don’t mean poor immunization technique when an HIV contaminated needle/syringe was reused which is violation of every basic precaution to not reuse needles/syringes.

          • kedwa30

            We don’t need a case study. We have a confession from the doctor that did it. “Among the confessions made by Merck’s Dr. Maurice Hilleman are the
            revelations that the pharmaceutical giant knowingly and willingly
            injected tens of thousands of unsuspecting human test subjects with
            vaccines tainted with a host of horrifying micro-organisms. As detailed
            in 2013 in the Whiteout Press article, ‘Measles Outbreak heats up Vaccine Debate,’
            the world’s earliest vaccines from drug companies like Merck contained
            the cancer-causing SV40 virus, as well as the AIDS-causing “monkey
            virus”. HIV/AIDS didn’t have a name in the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s. Since
            it was a virus that only existed in monkeys, it was simply called, “the
            monkey virus.” http://www.whiteoutpress.com/timeless/the-confession-that-merck-pharma-created-spread-aids/

            You can see a video of the confession on youtube if you like.

          • lilady R.N.

            White Out Press, eh? Dr. Hilleman was joking and the virus was named SV-40 (Simian Virus-40) because it was the 40th monkey virus identified.

            HIV has existed for years before it was first identified…it’s been located in old specimens that are preserved.

            There’s no records of disease or deaths ever caused by HIV which was never found in vaccines and no record of cancers caused by SV-40 virus, associated with polio vaccine where it was found.

          • kedwa30

            Here you go again with your cheap eristics. You asked for a case in which “HIV was spread by vaccines” and the fact is, the first vaccines were developed using wild simians and could very well have included active HIV.
            The fact that records were not kept or recorded using the names you search for is not any evidence that vaccines never transmitted HIV. I have demonstrated that it is possible but you just don’t want to accept that.
            Get past your observer expectancy goggles. Stop seeing only what you want to find. The sooner you accept that vaccines are a possible route of spreading disease the sooner we can work together to change that. Clinging to your childish notion that all things medical are good and trustworthy is only holding us back. It is your religious belief, not reality.

          • kedwa30

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11897278

            No record of cancers caused by SV-40, eh? You are proven once again to be a liar.

          • D Titus

            You are wrong, and ignoring all kinds of cdc evidence and admission of mercury in vaccines as well as hiding the affects of mercury vaccines on children.

            Do you really believe that mercury poisoning does not lead to autism?

          • Sara Lucy

            That’s right. Completely different conditions and vaccines have nothing to do with mercury poisoning anyway.

          • D Titus

            Well you are wrong, mercury poisoning can cause autism.
            Autism is higher now than ever in history.
            Vaccinations given to children is higher now than ever in history.
            Poisoning is not good for human beings.

            So you are denying all of these facts?

          • Sara Lucy

            I’m not denying any of those things, but you can’t just meld 3 separate ideas into a conclusion and act like that’s scientific.

        • Typical of science deniers everywhere, you have a 1 mm deep knowledge of clinical trials, but you use a bunch of words that mean nothing. It’s like the person who pretends to speak French, but in fact is saying nonsense.

          Correlation could mean causation IF one could show biological plausibility. There is simply no plausible way that a flu vaccine could cause hallucinations, so we’d reject your hypothesis as implausible and thus should be rejected.

          If 50,000 people were struck by a truck after a flu shot, the better plausibility is that flu clinics should not be placed near fast highways.

          You have no clue what causality, correlation and plausibility equal. In that case, you’re just showing your uneducated, ignorant self to the world. Aren’t you embarrassed?

          • kedwa30

            “Correlation could mean causation IF one could show biological plausibility.”

            That’s been done. Do you want me to rub your nose in the amount of medications that warn of possible hallucinations? When you inject something into the bloodstream, there is a possibility it is going to influence the brain.

            “There is simply no plausible way that a flu vaccine could
            cause hallucinations,”

            So you claim, and yet, your inability to understand an explanation is no barrier to its plausibility where intelligent people are considering it.

            “so we’d reject your hypothesis as implausible and
            thus should be rejected.”

            You and your entire kindergarten class?

            “If 50,000 people were struck by a truck
            after a flu shot, the better plausibility is that flu clinics should not be placed near fast highways.”

            False. You would need to demonstrate that clinics are in fact placed near fast highways before you could conclude that. Imagining them close to a highway is not good enough. Have you ever seen a clinic with an entrance directly onto a fast highway? I have not. City planners tend to regulate the speed of roads around clinics, just as they do schools. In any case, we could logically rule out that being struck by a truck caused a flu shot. Given that there was not a similar number of other patients being struck by trucks from the same clinics who did not get a flu shot, the evidence would point even more strongly to the flu shot as being a cause, not the location of the clinic. Since in your scenario, you did not suggest that nearly everyone going to clinics got struck by trucks, then we can conclude that flu shots were a factor.

          • D Titus

            What if the vaccine was infected with an hallucination agent?
            Then yes you would be affected. When did you test all of the vaccines in the world to determine that there are no contaminants in any of them?

            “There is simply no plausible way that a flu vaccine could cause
            hallucinations, so we’d reject your hypothesis as implausible and thus
            should be rejected.”

            Are you aware of what bayer did in the 80’s to human beings?

            https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=bayer%20sells%20aids-infected%20blood%20plasma

        • D Titus

          How many people die from flu shots in USA each year?

          http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

          CDC estimates that from the 1976-1977 season to the 2006-2007 flu
          season, flu-associated deaths ranged from a low of about 3,000 to a high
          of about 49,000 people.

          THIS IS MORE MURDER FROM VACCINES AND SHOTS. The more you kill the more you depopulate.

          • kedwa30

            From the link you provided:

            “Why doesn’t CDC base its seasonal flu mortality estimates only on death certificates that specifically list influenza?
            “It has been recognized for many years that influenza is infrequently listed on death certificates and testing for seasonal influenza infections is usually not done,”

            The CDC feels it can get away with asserting something as fact that has no verifiable data, because without that data nobody can prove them wrong.

            “…particularly among the elderly who are at greatest
            risk of seasonal influenza complications…”

            How can one determine risk without knowing the statistics? The statistics are a guess, and so is the notion that any particular group is at a greater risk.

            “… and death.”

            Yes, for some reason, the elderly do die an awful lot. The only way to avoid dying of old age is to die young. It is irresponsible fear mongering to suggest that flu is the cause of death for so many aged people who already had congestive heart problems and breathing problems from other causes.

            “Does CDC know the exact number of people who die from seasonal flu each year?
            “CDC does not know exactly how many people die from seasonal flu each year.”

            They admit it here so they have their butt covered when people complain that they believed their claims.

            “most people who die from seasonal flu-related complications are not tested for flu, or they seek medical care later in their illness when seasonal influenza can no longer be detected from respiratory samples.”

            And snow quickly covers the tracks of the abominable snowman, and no one can find the Loch Ness Monster because Nessy is so sneaky.

            Unfalsifiable claims do not belong in real science.

            “Why does CDC estimate deaths associated with seasonal flu?

            “CDC feels it is important to convey the full burden of seasonal flu to the public.”

            In other words, an organization with “disease control” in its name gets more funding and public recognition the more people fear the flu.

            Make sure you’re the puppeteer, not the puppet.

      • D Titus

        Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.2

        AUTISM is a by-product of this product.

        • Autism Spectrum Disorder is genetic. Meaning you’re born with it.

          • kedwa30

            Support your assertions with evidence or they are easily dismissed as propaganda, lies, and misdirection.

          • You first. Oh, and genuine evidence, not anything from Mercola, Natural News, Green Med, Whale to, et al.

          • kedwa30

            It’s your assertion that ASD is genetic, therefore the burden of proof is yours to heave. I am asking you to provide evidence for your assertion. Are you seriously asking me to provide evidence that you haven’t provided evidence?

            We can look above at your post in its entirety and see there is only an empty claim.

          • (facepalm) Not you fricking idiot. I’m referring to all the claims you have made about vaccines. And I swear to Sagan, if you mention package inserts one more time, I’m gonna tell you about me and Cialis.

            The other science folks on this page do not want to read that one again. Don’t make them suffer.

          • kedwa30

            Dementia is hard on the whole family. I send my condolences to your family for your dementia.

          • kedwa30

            Still waiting for you to provide any kind of support for your claim that ASD is genetic.

      • D Titus

        This is the writing of the FDA. Look at the link again. The 1st 6 letters of the URL. http://www.FDA

        Why are you refering to “ravings of anti-vaxxer”? So the FDA is anti-vaccination? Seriously, this is what you are saying. You can do no better than this? This is your best arguement to LANDSCUTZ post, just to ignore reality. That means that you are mentally disturbed you do know that right? You are seeing things that are not there. This info is from the FDA not an anti-vaxxer.

        Psychosis http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001553.htm

    • D Titus

      Thanks. I just read it, autism is a listed by-product of taking this vaccine.

      GOOD JOB.

    • Speaking of package inserts, it’s that time again!

      Did you know that the package insert for Cialis says, “May cause you to walk into walls”? This is because when I was taking part in the Phase IV trials for it, I was talking on the phone, and not watching where I was walking (Yes, i pace while on a call), and I walked into a wall. When one of the trial nurses spotted the red mark on my forehead, she asked what had happened. After i told her, she opened my file, and typed it in.

      Think about that before you quote package inserts.

  • Simon Sumunka

    Read the CDC.GOV website and decide for yourself.
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

  • D Titus

    I’m assuming that “Skeptical Raptor’s” your pen name. Without revealing your total identity can you tell me if you 1st name is “Bill”? Just curious.

    THX

    • Grace Joubarne

      I’ll bet his name is ‘Shill’….

      • Look up the definition of words before you attempt to use them. Especially if you’re gonna attempt do so in a pejorative fashion.

        • kedwa30

          Knowing word meanings is important. You can find the definition in a dictionary. Say it with me. Dictionary. Goooood.

      • I’d have to be paid to be a shill. And I’d have to have ethics and morals as detestable as yours.

        • kedwa30

          The “pay” for some people is the feeling of being respected for seeming to be smart as they pretend to see the emperor’s clothes on his naked body.

        • D Titus

          Which of my ethics or morals are detestable? When have you ever had an opportunity to view me and my ethics and morals? Date & Time please. THX

      • D Titus

        Yes it does look like a shill from the government. Soul selling you will never get a good deal on price of your soul.

    • His name isn’t hard to find.

  • D Titus
    • Does it matter?

      • D Titus

        Only to the SANE.

    • Infowars? LMFAO. If you really had data, you’d know that he doesn’t own a single share. His foundation does. I wrote about it. It’s ignorant nonsense, pushed by ignorant people like you.

      • kedwa30

        If he runs the foundation, then he controls the wealth the foundation owns. What matters about the fact that an organization he controls owns so much of another organization is that it shows he is able to influence both. Monsanto is within his sphere of control. That’s very important knowledge in legal cases.

        • D Titus

          Yes so he had those shares purchased. THX for agreeing with me and seeing that you are wrong. That is very big of you. Have a nice day.

      • D Titus

        So you are saying that he has nothing to do with “his foundation” Since it has his name I’m willing to bet he has something to do with what the foundation buys or owes. Where did the foundation gets it’s funding from? THX

  • D Titus

    For those whom find this article to be true.
    and those not sure please watch and listen to this video from bill gates @ ted.


    heres another

    • Sara Lucy

      Zero population *growth* does not equal depopulation. If that’s the point you’re trying to make.

      Population growth is slowing on it own. Certain factors, like better living conditions and development have been shown to slow the *growth rate* even further. It’s very basic.

      • D Titus

        Yes it is, Gates is talking about getting rid of 10 – 15% of the world population with vaccines, but thats not enough he wants more people gone. Listen to it carefully please.

        By the way gates is also talking about global warming, 2013 was the coldest year on record.

        • Sara Lucy

          I listened carefully. I’m not hearing what you’re hearing. But then, my background is in natural resources and I understand the differences between growth rate and global population size. They aren’t the same thing.

          • D Titus

            So then what is he talking about then if I’m wrong? Please enlighten me. THX

          • Sara Lucy

            He’s talking about reducing a projected number- an estimate. By his discussion on health care and vaccines, he’s clearly talking about this reduction happening by reducing the rate of growth. Either way, the end number is going to be higher than the 6.8 billion humans in existence today. That means no one alive today has to die for his utopian vision.

          • D Titus

            1st off billy is nutz. Squeezing a 12 foot high truck under a 10 foot high bridge. I’m sorry you cannot squeeze trucks thru concrete or steel. They will be damaged and most likely 12 foot trailer would get stuck and it would not make it thru. The world does not work that way.

            2nd he says “until we get down to zero pop growth, then tempertures will rise. 2013 one of the coldest years on record.
            Summer of 2014 cooler than summer of 2013.
            https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=2014+summer+coldest+on+record

            It is getting much COLDER WITHOUT pop growth reduction. Billy is either nutz or a liar. Again billy this is not what is going on, on planet earth.

            This is only about 1/5 of the entire speech he gave. Can no longer find the entire speech on youtube. I 1st found it in late 2009. I think further into this speech he says more about depopulation. Will have to find and listen to again.

            So please take into account all of the strange things he has done and said.
            https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gates+windowes+98+crash

            He is laughing about committing felony fraud. Plug and play still did not work in win98. Even though plug&play was written more than once on the win98 box.

            Anyway I have nothing against you Sara, I just want to post what I believe to be the truth. Have a good evening.

          • kedwa30

            Here is the transcript of what I think you are looking for:

            http://blog.ted.com/2009/02/06/bill_gates_qa_w/

            Also, the complete videos of all of the Ted Talks with Bill Gates can be found on TED.com

            http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates?language=en

          • kedwa30

            Sara Lucy said “Either way, the end number is going to be higher than the 6.8 billion
            humans in existence today. That means no one alive today has to die for
            his utopian vision.”

            That’s a naive perspective. The cake is a lie.
            Bill Gates is a puppet… a famous mouth piece with zealous followers. The Georgia Guidestones clearly state the actual Utopian population as being a mere five hundred million for the whole planet. That too is a lie. The actual goal is the extinction of the human race.

            You will certainly die, after you have seen your children die, or after living childless and barren. This is a wakeup call. Take heed! Why do more and more people need the services of a fertility clinic in order to conceive? Think about it. The problem is not going to go away by ignoring it. It is not insurmountable if we work together. First you need to see the problem for what it is and then we can work together to fix it.

        • He did not. Do you enjoy being a liar? Thought so.

          • D Titus

            Yes he did. You are no listening dude.

            What makes billy a guru on vaccines anyway? What was his major in college? Billy is only an expert on making operating systems that crash as far as I can see. What about the 27,000 whom died from his vaccine?

      • D Titus

        How in the hell are you going to get zero population growth? By killing people like the chinese did.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/opinion/chinas-brutal-one-child-policy.html?_r=0

        Almost every one of the pregnant women I spoke to had suffered a
        mandatory abortion. One woman told me how, when she was eight months
        pregnant with an illegal second child and was unable to pay the 20,000
        yuan fine (about $3,200), family planning officers dragged her to the
        local clinic, bound her to a surgical table and injected a lethal drug
        into her abdomen.

        For two days she writhed on the table, her hands and feet still bound
        with rope, waiting for her body to eject the murdered baby. In the final
        stage of labor, a male doctor yanked the dead fetus out by the foot,
        then dropped it into a garbage can. She had no money for a cab. She had
        to hobble home, blood dripping down her legs and staining her white
        sandals red.

        THIS is where it is all heading. Has bill gates ever condemned the chinese for these murders? If not then he automatically supports them. He has had plenty of time to talk about this. How many times does he talk about saving children’s lifes? But could careless about these children. CONTRADICTION!

        • Sara Lucy

          Honestly, I don’t study Bill Gates so closely that I know his position on forced abortions in China.

          • D Titus

            Yes, well I have and he had no problem with the murder of these children. I think it is wrong to murder children.

          • Sara Lucy

            Murder is wrong but I don’t see how the alleged activities of the government in China are related to Bill Gates.

          • D Titus

            Glad that you feel murder is wrong. I could not agree with you more. Bill has been to china more than once and if he had said anything against the chinese the media would have been all over it. By the way obama, bush & clinton also had no problem with the murder of chinese children, but of course these president have all murder many children with bombs. Obama has admitted to killing children with drones.

            https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=obama+admits+killing+children+with+drones&spell=1

            All of these child deaths kindof go along with depopulation some would say.

          • You’re against vaccines. Allowing children to get vaccine preventable diseases is essentially child abuse you ignorant jackass.

            Inventing lies tells me a lot about you as a person.

          • D Titus

            When did I say I was anti-vaccine? Please show me. THX

          • kedwa30

            I don’t suppose you have a peer reviewed study to back up your assertion that a parent choosing to not vaccinate her child is guilty of child abuse.

          • Hey Mr. Strawman. Tell me a lie.

            Apparently you lack the intellect to understand when and where a peer-reviewed study is required. Providing evidence in science is one place.

            A random sociological opinion, that vaccine deniers are sociopaths and should be imprisoned, does not depend on anything. It’s an opinion.

            You apparently cannot comprehend your conflation of science and opinion. Figures.

          • kedwa30

            Stop talking about me, Estupido Raptor, and back up your assertions with some kind of evidence. You are way too emotional. Take a deep breath…. but not too much… oxygen can kill in too high quantity.

          • kedwa30

            “A random sociological opinion, that vaccine deniers are sociopaths and
            should be imprisoned, does not depend on anything. It’s an opinion.”

            So you claim, once again without providing any kind of supporting evidence, thus making your claim easily dismissed.
            The fact is, opinions are usually based on some kind of observation.
            No one should be depending on your opinion, since your opinions are based on your imagination.

            See, the fact is that you are projecting. Just because your opinions are random and are not based on anything doesn’t mean the opinions of others are as shallow. However, you have just described your blog very well.

          • kedwa30

            A typical anti-vaxer:

            “We readily accept that harm/deaths on our roads and toddlers drowning in backyard pools as horrible tragedies and rightly so . The consensus is that even one death is one too many. Yet when it comes to the injuries and death caused by
            vaccination we are supposed to readily accept the collateral damage as a worthwhile sacrifice for the good of the rest of us. OK as long as its not your kid hey Jo!”

            No, anti-vaxers are not child abusers. In fact, they are very concerned about the harm that vaccines cause to children. Why aren’t you?

          • Which is?

          • Sara Lucy

            Maybe it was poorly phrased, but I am saying that I don’t know whether he has a publicized opinion on that topic. If he does, I am not aware of it.

            A response to:
            “Has bill gates ever condemned the chinese for these murders? If not then he automatically supports them. He has had plenty of time to talk
            about this.”

      • kedwa30

        Sara Lucy asserts: “Population growth is slowing on it own. Certain factors, like better
        living conditions and development have been shown to slow the *growth
        rate* even further”

        Please support your assertions with some kind of evidence. In the past, better living conditions such as more food and improved sanitation have consistently led to increases in growth rate. What natural factors can you demonstrate are at play in decreasing growth rate?
        In the U.S. people are choosing to have fewer children because they are bombarded with the propaganda that the world is over-populated. This propaganda and the associated choices are not natural.

        • Guest

          Apparently no answer.

        • Please provide peer reviewed evidence of your assertions.

          • Guest

            I did.

          • kedwa30

            Done. You do the same, please.

      • kedwa30

        Bill Gates said “First we have population. Now the world today has six point eight billion people. That’s headed up to about nine billion. Now if we do a really good job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive services, we could lower that by perhaps ten or fifteen percent. But there we see an increase of about one point three.”

        He said ‘people’, not population growth. If he was talking about a rate of growth, he would need to have mentioned a time scale. But just assuming this billionaire is a sloppy communicator and he meant that he wanted to reduce projected growth by ten or fifteen percent, then what are various ways he can reduce the projected population growth using new vaccines, the health care system, and “reproductive services”? Abortion is classified as a reproductive service as is sterilization. Sneaking into vaccines new diseases to create populations of carriers similar to ‘Typhoid Mary’ is a way to increase deaths using vaccines, thus slowing population growth. Sneaking in dangerous chemicals that harm brain development is a way to potentially create more dangerous people, needy people, and generally people who lack the ability to reproduce and live a long life. Shortening the life span of people can reduce population growth. Promoting a culture of death by advocating ‘death with dignity’ as a health care service, in other words, assisted suicide, is yet another way to reduce population growth through health care services.
        Yet, I have not seen any evidence that people naturally stop having babies when they have plenty of good food to eat and don’t suffer from diseases. In fact, the way GMO crops are designed to work to control pests may work as effectively against humans, causing infertility in later generations. The number of people paying doctors to help them have children is increasing, not declining. If more people were voluntarily choosing not to have children, then why would that number be increasing?

        I doubt your assertions, and I hope you will be able to provide some supporting evidence for your claims.

        • Sara Lucy

          I’m just talking about the video. If you want to have a discussion about the video, then let’s stick to that.

          If you want to go on a tangent about population reduction, provide some evidence showing that what he said in the video is a direct reference to Bill Gates’ plot of:

          -“Promoting a culture of death by advocating ‘death with dignity’ as a health care service”

          -“Sneaking into vaccines new diseases to create populations of carriers
          similar to ‘Typhoid Mary’ is a way to increase deaths using vaccines”

          -“Sneaking in dangerous chemicals that harm brain development is a way to potentially create more dangerous people…”

          -“Shortening the life span of people”

          And a plausible mechanism to explain:

          -“the way GMO crops are designed to work to control pests may
          work as effectively against humans, causing infertility in later
          generations”

          You’re the one introducing dubious assertions, so how about you bring some evidence?

          • kedwa30

            We are both talking about the video. The difference is that you choose to be obtuse about it rather than discussing it in depth. If you want to put on your blinders and ignore the worldly implications of what was said, then we have nothing to discuss. That’s your choice. But if you want to open your mind to the world outside, then you must consider evidence outside the video as well. Restricting the evidence to only what is obvious in the video is a form of eristics. In other words, it is not an honest attempt to learn the truth. What do you want to do? Win an argument at any cost? Or arrive at a truth?

          • Sara Lucy

            I’ve explored many of the ideas you’ve put forth, in the past, and I’ve rejected them. I have no interest in going there again. I’ve lost people in that battle.

          • kedwa30

            You’ve lost people? You mean people who once were your friends stopped speaking to you just because you’ve considered that some vile people might be sneaking bad stuff into some vaccines?

          • Sara Lucy

            No, I mean someone who read the kind of stuff you read, and decided that he’d rather be dead than be alive and imprisoned in this massive, dark conspiracy you’re promoting. He put the end of a double-barrel shotgun to his chin and blew his brains out.

            If you have no evidence, then I’m not joining the vaccines-are-a-trojan-horse-for-depopulation position. I have no use for it.

          • kedwa30

            Typical liberal blaming the reading material for the decision the person made. That’s as bad as blaming the gun. I’ll have you know that I am not promoting this conspiracy; I am exposing it in order to gather the forces necessary to repel it. Committing suicide is exactly what the global depopulationists want. http://www.theonion.com/articles/scientists-look-onethird-of-the-human-race-has-to,27166/

          • Sara Lucy

            The Onion? Really?

          • kedwa30

            What is satire if not truth hidden behind comedy? Often people laugh at a good joke because it’s so true. The court jester could get away with saying things that would otherwise offend the king because it was disguised as comedy. People are so indoctrinated into their paradigm of the way the world works that when some new evidence challenges their preheld beliefs, they often will close their mind and reject it.

            Presenting the evidence as comedy is one way to reveal a truth without people violently opposing it for rocking the boat of their religious beliefs.
            The false notion of global warming is just one of many assaults on the human population. People are being fooled into choosing to believe that the world is overpopulated and that people must go now or the human race may become extinct. So how do you want to do this? Shotgun to the face? A lottery? It’s absurd and yet real at the same time. People are actually believing that population must decline in order to save the future of humanity. These people feel that they are helping to save the future of humanity by increasing the incidence of death in the world. They feel like they are being helpful by adding toxins to vaccines and their company gets to profit from it at the same time. And since they do it randomly, they don’t feel as though they are assassins or murderers. They are deluded into thinking they are increasing “natural” deaths, because it’s the illness that kills them, not the vaccine. It’s a huge dose of unbalanced propaganda followed by apologetics and compromised morality. If one is only moral when it’s convenient, then is she really moral at all?
            This is not an emotional appeal. This is an appeal to ethics. It is philosophy. It is logic. I never said ‘think of the poor babbies!’
            If you are feeling some kind of way after reading what I write, that says more about you.

          • Sara Lucy

            “Typical liberal blaming the reading material for the decision the person made.”

            LOL. Isn’t this your argument, though, for why fertility rates decline in “indoctrinated” populations? Because their reading materials tell them to stop having so many babies?

            Aren’t my reading materials the reason I’m having such a hard, hard time grasping your very important warnings? I’d wager they are.

            But you’re right, it’s an anecdote. The larger point I was making is that your tactics of emotional appeals and manipulations aren’t sufficient to convince me to jump over to your side of the fence because everything you are saying comes from lies served to you by the John Birch Society and friends. Somehow you seem convinced that these ideas have spontaneously germinated in your own mind without any influence from wealthy outsiders. They’ve got you, friend.

          • kedwa30

            The who-at? The John Birch Society (JBS) is an American political advocacy group that supports anti-communism and limited government.

            You seem desperate to peg-hole me into some entity that you can easily build into a strawman and stereotype. I told you, I am not a strawman.

            Or at least I told someone that on these comments. Nevertheless, I AM NOT A STRAWMAN. You cannot pigeonhole me. Stop attacking my personality and let’s please discuss the issues–if you can.

            “Isn’t this your argument, though, for why fertility rates decline in “indoctrinated” populations?”

            No, and I am sure you can tear down that strawman as easily as you built it. I have repeatedly pointed out that while some people choose to have fewer or no children, this is due to their choice to believe the propaganda, NOT DUE TO SOME NATURAL LAW AS YET UNDISCOVERED. I have repeatedly pointed out that while some people choose to have few or no children, MANY PEOPLE PAY GOOD MONEY TO TRY TO CONCEIVE WITH THE HELP OF SCIENCE, and that number is growing. The evidence points to an outside influence, as opposed to your assertion that it is the “natural” result of a healthy population.

            Stop being so dishonest with your arguments. I’m tired of your cheap eristics already. Your arguments are so stupid for someone who is so smart. You can do better. Try thinking for yourself rather than following the herd of your religion.

            “Aren’t my reading materials the reason I’m having such a hard, hard time grasping your very important warnings? I’d wager they are.”

            You would be wrong. I have read much of the same materials you have and you have said that you have read much of the materials I have. Obviously the evidence points to personal choice. When the influence is balanced, then the onus is on personal choice. Obviously not everyone gets a balanced view. We are each a judge in our own life. Being impartial does not mean ignoring the evidence you don’t want to believe.

            “But you’re right, it’s an anecdote.”

            Are you now saying you didn’t actually know anyone who committed suicide for this claimed reason of yours? You invented this story to make a point? Please clear this up.

            “The larger point I was making is that your tactics of emotional appeals and manipulations aren’t sufficient to convince me to jump over to your side of the fence”

            How dare you accuse me of emotional appeals. Your false accusations demonstrate your sour intent. It is you who have attempted to manipulate emotions.

            “everything you are saying comes from lies served to you by the John Birch Society and friends.”

            You are projecting your own willingness to deceive. Nothing I have said can be solely attributed to any political society. The truth is universal. Anyone can discover it on his own or with help.

            I am not familiar with this birch tree club, but I have no doubt that people of all parties use universal truths to their own benefit.

            “They’ve got you, friend.”

            Nope. I’m wearing my tinfoil cap. I’m invulnerable to the mind control rays. Why aren’t you wearing one?

          • Sara Lucy

            An anecdote is a personal story. That doesn’t mean it’s made up.

            Sorry, but you just cited The Onion and destroyed any smidge of credibility you might have had until you explain that.

          • kedwa30

            You judging my credibility based on my response to your lie is like choosing which candidate to vote for president based on the socks he wears.

            Also, just because your anecdote wasn’t made up doesn’t mean you weren’t dishonestly using it to attempt to manipulate my emotions. Lucky for me I have none to manipulate, so I did not fall for it.

  • moronmarching .

    I am no expert but this DOES NOT sound good:
    (from CDC, other sites have worse stuff)
    Aluminum
    Antibiotics
    Egg protein – this is DNA from egg cells, they used to use aborted fetuses, now other animals, Injecting or consuming the DNA of other animals?
    Formaldehyde
    Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and 2-phenoxy-ethanol w (Chinese restaurnats had to stop using those, but they give them to kids?)
    Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative
    inactive polio “virus” – it is questionable whether this “virus” has even been isolated.
    (no jokes about my name a moron is just someone who thinks like a young child-not yet brainwashed)

    • The first part of your name is definitely descriptive. Bloody hell, you even have that wrong: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moron?s=t

      moron

      [mawr-on, mohr-] Spell Syllables
      Word Origin
      noun
      1.
      Informal. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment:

      • kedwa30

        Hey, how about that! You didn’t use the thesaurus this time! You’re learning!

        • I didn’t use the thesaurus, idiot, because I wasn’t showing synonym.

          • kedwa30

            You weren’t showing intelligence or self control either.

          • ROFL. Your unmitigated gall is astounding.

  • Nana Kwame

    What Kind of STUPID ASS Rationale Is This?

    “Another antivaccination group is pushing the story that Gates is at fault for 47,500 paralysis cases after polio vaccine in India. However, the CDC has reported that there have been no cases of polio in India since 2011, compared to the 741 case in 2009. The paralysis cases were identified as non polio Acute Flaccid Paralysis, which can result from any number of non-polio viruses or bacterium. In this case, non-polio enteroviruses were identified as the cause, and not polio that resulted from the vaccines themselves.”

    First of All The Fact That the Polio Numbers Have Decreased Doesn’t Have ANYTHING to Do With the Fact That 47,500 Children Who ALL Received the Vaccine Are Paralyzed or Dead. DEBUNK IS DEBUNKED

    Secondly, “Acute Flaccid Paralysis is Not Polio” IS IRRELEVANT! “Non Polio Viruses Were the Cause” NO ONE Said the Vaccine GAVE the Children “Polio”. They Said It PARALYZED THEM! Maybe Via One of the “Any Number of Non-Polio Viruses or Bacterium” As You Put It.

    This WHOLE ARTICLE is a Bunch of BULL! It Reads as Though You Were Paid By Gates to Just Put ANY Alternative Theory Out There to Combat the VERY OBVIOUS Truth That Bill Gates Vaccines Are Paralyzing Children in India, and Killing Children in Africa. It is WELL KNOWN That Africans Do NOT Like to Vaccinate Their Children So How Hard Is It to Believe They Are Being Forced? You Think The “Gates Foundation” Is Going to Come to an African Country With a Pharmaceutical ARMY and “Walk Away” When the Parents Say No?

    The Facts Are Clear: 48,000 Indian Children Were Walking Around Fine. Then Bill Gates Came and Vaccinated Them. Now There Are 48,000 Paralyzed or Dead Children Who All Took the Vaccine. If You Think This SORRY ASS Article Overrides That in Any Way Then Your SENSE is as Piss-Poor as Your “Journalism”.

    • I know simple math is beyond the skills of vaccine deniers, but here’s the point. Polio has been wiped out, which vastly outweighs real or imagined adverse effects.

      The 47,000 individuals who contracted NON-POLIO Acute Flaccid Paralysis which is not caused by polio virus. It cannot be formed by the recombining viral DNA.

      Love all of your capital letters however. Even with your imagined side effects, that have nothing to do with the vaccine, every single day, 500-1000 Indian children contracted paralytic polio. I know you don’t actually care about kids, or you’d understand this, but upwards of 350,000 children every year are saved from a lifetime of disability with polio.

      There is no scientific evidence that the 47,000 cases of NON-POLIO Acute Flacid Polio has anything to do with vaccines. Oh I said that. There are endemic non-polio enteroviruses that cause the same population especially in an area with suspect sanitation.

      You can come here and yell and scream. But you really lack any math skills, virology skills, and typing skills.

      • Apologies for the length, but there’s much SCIENCE to discuss. And your outrageously bias piece was tedious at best to read through–so please, allow me to explain microbiology to others.

        “Polio” has not been wiped out — IT’S BEEN MUTATED PURPOSELY( and is now called other things like “Asceptic Meningitis.” And there’s a very good microbiological reason for this…

        Because in 1900, Meningitis, the “flu” and polio were ALL diseases developed from the SAME PARASITE. (Royal Society of Medicine — Oct. 20, 1913 — “Recent Advances in the
        Field of Microbiology…Pure cultures of the Viruses Poliomyelitis and
        Rabies” Harvesting) Yes, I said parasite. That’s all “diseases” are — PARASITES and why they’re called “bugs.” THEY ARE THE SOURCE OF SICKNESS, the “disease” name is given to a set of symptoms that happen simultaneously, but is NON IDENTIFYING. In 1900 all doctors called “diseases” either parasite or “bug,”(The Manual of the International List of Causes of Death 1909-1911 Edition pg. 245) but in 1939 the U.S. Government BANNED the word “bug,” and RECLASSIFIED the word “parasite” into subcategories “bacteria, virus, fungus, protozoa.”(“The History of the Reclassification of Disease and Causes of Death” — CDC Report pg 23) This kept all focused on symptoms rather than looking for an actual “source.” And it’s worked marvelously….almost NO ONE know the source of disease any more other than microbiologists. Which by the way are dying left and right faster than bankers–why is that??? Back on topic….

        At the same time these discoveries were happening, Hitler’s doctors were discovering that for every lethal ORGANIC parasite (disease) there is FOOD SOURCE(sugar), and an alternate neutralizing ORGANIC ACID to counter and kill it (acids, sugars, parasites) inside us.(Dr. Otto Warburg “Sugar Causes Cancer” — Dr. Max Gerson “Gerson Miracle”) This is part of the reason why Hitler thought he could start a true “master” race–because he was learning MANY secrets about human health. Because of ALL of these discoveries it leaves all vaccine “evidence” IN THE DUST. Intravenous doses of Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C studies NIH) is being used to CURE CANCER and even AIDS in other countries. Of course not in this country, it’s ILLEGAL for a doctor to recommend any treatment for Cancer other than CANCER-CAUSING RADIATION & CHEMOTHERAPY. Now why is that?

        Microbiologically speaking, your arguments about vaccines are quackery due to the work fine doctors executed well over 100 years ago. They were lecturing then that IF doctors use pure, DEAD parasites WITHOUT any added toxins (heavy metals, other bacteria, etc) then MAYBE they’d be the “miracle” all claim. But injecting a LIVE PARASITE with heavy metals is LETHAL. Because the same doctor discovered ALL parasites use heavy metals like armor. In the late 1800’s Dr. Theobald Smith discovered some pretty powerful things as well: that PARASITES are passed from mother to child during the birthing process (“Suppressing the Diseases of Animals and Man” Dr. Theobald Smith). This blows the “disease is genetic” theory out the window, but the Eugenecists certainly LOVE that elitist idea. And by 1920 Dr. Smith aggressively lectured doctors and cities about the parasite/armor factor, and the NECESSITY OF CLEAN, METAL-FREE WATER. Does it make more sense why they’re putting “thimerasol” in shots?

        Vaccines are manslaughter–parasites are easily killed with high doses of the RIGHT organic acid while simultaneously removing cancer-causing foods(SUGAR & GMO’s) from your diet. NO VACCINE NECESSARY especially not live vaccines with heavy metals. With the two combined you’re basically insuring infection or DEATH from the “disease”(PARASITE) you’re being vaccinated against. And the elite KNOW THIS. Don’t think so?

        In the year 1900, according to United States Vital Statistics, ONLY 64 OUT OF 100,000 PEOPLE GOT CANCER. Know what those numbers are up to now? 1 in 3 men get Cancer, 1 in 4 women….coincidence? Let’s take it a step further….if 1 in 3 men get Cancer now, WHY AREN’T 1 IN 3 SENATORS DYING OF CANCER? Or 1 out of every 4 State Reps getting heart disease like the rates hitting us? Come to think of it, when was the last time a U.S. President even died of Cancer? I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t in this century, or the last.

        Not yet? Oh ok, I’ll tell you– the last President to die of Cancer was Ulysses S. Grant in 1885….coincidence? Well, IT’S NOT.

        Because the U.S. Government & Corporate “elite” have the REAL MEDICINE stolen for Hitler and others, and we’re stuck with the Western Medicine MURDER MACHINE.(Vaccines, Chemo, Radiation, Big Pharma) The stats are real….this OPINION PIECE is not. And I’ll take the word of HONEST DOCTORS from centuries ago to ANY doctor now. Oh, and it helps to have literature printed and distributed by the U.S. Government too!

        Like Hippocrates said; you know, the guy doctors fashioned their “oath” after:

        “Let they Food be they Medicine and they Medicine be thy Food”–he didn’t mean “eat right, it’s good for you” he meant FOOD CAN HEAL YOU. And guess what they don’t serve at the White House or in Monsanto’s cafeteria? I’ll give you one (GMO) guess–

        • Wow. Hitler. US Grant. Mutated polio. I’ve seen better spam.

        • Boris Ogon

          How’s Hulda Clark holding up?

        • Boris Ogon

          In 1900 all doctors called “diseases” either parasite or “bug,”(The Manual of the International List of Causes of Death 1909-1911 Edition pg. 245)

          You mean this? You might want to think twice before citing something that directly refutes your claim.

        • moronmarching .

          It is interesting how these vaccines were developed after WWII. I’m not sure if it is a parasite, but I don’t think it is even a virus.

      • moronmarching .

        Forget the stuff you copy and pasted from wikipedia and just look up the ingredients. How can that be good?

      • D Titus

        Here another point from Bill himself.

      • kedwa30

        If polio has been wiped out, then why is there a need for the vaccine? There are labs where polio is kept for “study” which may well be the seed for creating new “outbreaks”.

        “Dr. Jacob said the increase in the occurrence of non-polio AFP could be directly linked to the massive increase in the dosage of OPV in the name of eradication. Although, the increase in the non-polio AFP was known for quite some time, it was for the first time that a co-relation was established by collating the data of the national polio surveillance, he said.” The Refusers

        “the CDC has reported that there have been no cases of polio in India since 2011, compared to the 741 case in 2009.”

        Your article.

        “According to a report by Dr. Neetu Vashisht and Dr. Jacob Puliyel,
        appearing in the April-June issue of the Indian Journal of Medical
        Ethics, the incidence of non-polio AFP had gone up by 12 times over and above the normal rates with the onset of the administration OPV 10 years ago. The report appeared at a time when Kerala is getting prepared for another round of OPV on April 15.” The Refusers.

        Good journalism is balanced reporting without pushing ones own agenda. State the facts. The fact is, despite the “erradication” of polio, saving a projected 700 lives per year, the OPV program has caused harm to more than fifty times those projected to have been saved. I’m being generous to a fault.
        If you think erradicating polio is worth the death of fifty times as many people, then I’ve got a business proposition for you. You give me fifty dollars for every penny I promise you. How about that? I’ll bet you think it’s a good deal. You know, because you think killing people is saving lives you must also think spending money is saving it. So save a penny by spending fifty dollars. Go ahead. I D 10 T user error.

        • D Titus

          Yes contradicting stories. The only reason for the vaccine is to kill off people. That is why the stories continue to contradict each other.

      • D Titus

        You have contradicted yourself, which is what all NSA shills do sooner or later.

        “but here’s the point. Polio has been wiped out,”

        “every single day, 500-1000 Indian children contracted paralytic polio.”

        It’s been wiped out but children are still getting it every day. So then it is not wiped out if it is still around. THX NSA

    • ka9q

      Yes, and every single person whom Edward Jenner vaccinated for smallpox is now dead. Every single one!!

      Obviously he should be considered not as a hero of modern medicine, but as one of the greatest mass murderers in history!

      • kedwa30

        What seems obvious to you is clearly the product of your imagination.

    • moronmarching .

      So..then you still have polio? any way no ads for stuff here:

      http://whale.to/a/west_h.html

    • D Titus

      Your parents are still alive? May I ask how old they?

      THX

    • kedwa30

      I have no doubt that vaccines work. Many are backed by sound science.

      However, there is no need to include toxic heavy metals in them and I have no doubt that many other unnecessary ingredients are being included in them that are actually intended to harm the patient. Not every vaccine will have the same stuff in it. Who tests the vaccines? Has anyone any data? Has any neutral third party systematically checked random samples to ensure they weren’t adulterated?

      It is a good working theory that a percentage of vaccines are intentionally contaminated with toxins, live bacteria, or other harmful agents. This explains the corelation between the administration of the vaccine and the increase in deaths. If you have a better explanation, I would love to hear it. However, dismissing the corelation as mere coincidence because you trust that vaccines could never be used to harm people says more about you.

    • moronmarching .

      I regret getting them for my kids. Without going into detail, there are certain problems related to what everyone says about being caused by the polio vaccine. also, for myself. 🙁

    • D Titus

      RIGHT YOU ARE SIR!

    • moronmarching .

      yeah, it’s AZT and other drugs that kill people with “AIDS”. Some times it is just leukemia that they call “AIDS” if the person is gay or high risk or African.

  • Pingback: Vaccine denialists hate Bill Gates | Illuminutti()

  • Pingback: Why Would Bill Gates Want to Kill One Billion People? | Illuminutti()

    • D Titus

      Well Shannon research this please!

    • D Titus

      Well then please troll this.

    • D Titus

      RIGHT so is billy!
      This is the service he is talking about.

  • Pingback: Bill Gates, Part 3: now despised by GMO refusers()

    • D Titus

      How about this vaccine program.

    • D Titus

      Oh you want seconds? Well here you go.


      & seconds

    • D Titus

      You could not be MORE CORRECT. Lets hear what Bill says.

    • kedwa30

      You’re a fanboy.

  • Pingback: How pseudoscience tries to fool you()

    • D Titus

      Okay, well lets just see what Bill Gates has to say about all this!

    • kedwa30

      Bill Gates’ character may be fine and yet he may still be killing or sterilizing people through vaccines. Many people are convinced that the world population is too large and that to save the future of the human race, people must die now. I have no doubt that Bill Gates believes what he is doing is for the good of mankind. His character is fine. But what he is doing is a different matter entirely.

  • Pingback: Vaccine denialists really hate Bill Gates–Part 2()

  • Pingback: Vaksinemotstand og uredelig argumentasjon del 2 « TJ – Land()

      • Spencer James Smith

        Sorry I forgot that scientists speaking out about this have Ph.D’s. Nice try though buddy. And there is a massive amount of conflict of interest and corruption. I’m not going to post it here though. I already sent a bunch of links to another page on this blog. And what you are really listening to is the lies of the rockefellers and rothschilds. The people that have a massive influence and control over media, FDA, and the healthcare system in general. I get tired of debating with people like you who can’t see through the bull crap. O cuz the scientists against vaccinations didn’t go to a real university? Right. Funny when I hear those statements.

        The CDC is corrupt. The CDC whistle blowers tell about being told to omit data from the study that showed an autism and vaccine link. And what reason would they have to lie?

      • Spencer James Smith

        You are in denial or the corruption and conflict of interest. Not going to explain it in detail, it’s all on the thread on another article on this stupid blog.

    • D Titus