The fictional CDC coverup of vaccines and autism – movie time

The zombie anti-vaccine trope of the CDC coverup of vaccines and autism – tied to a so-called CDC “whistleblower” – has risen again from the dead. I thought it was time to bring back my zombie-killing snarky, sarcastic, and humorous debunking of that trope. Let’s have some fun.

I and about 20-30 other pro-science bloggers wrote articles about a strange story, pushed by all of the usual suspects in the antivaccine universe (starting with Natural News, Green Med Info, and the Age of Lying about Autism). Despite new information, press releases, claims and counter claims, nothing has changed in the facts about vaccines and autism as a result of this somewhat entertaining story that included fictional claims with real people.

What are the facts? Vaccines do not cause autism according to boatloads of evidence.

Nevertheless, this story is provocative, laughable at some level, and filled with rather disreputable characters – it gives all us bloggers, who focus on the real scientific evidence behind the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, a great subject for writing.

As I surmised when I first wrote this article over a year ago, this zombie trope has risen again!

Since much of this story has strong fictional elements, I think we should examine this story as if it were a synopsis for a screenplay behind a proposed new superhero movie. You know, The CDC vs. the Evil Cult of Antivaccination. 

Hey, I ought to copyright that, just in case someone does turn in into a movie. Because this synopsis has all of the important parts of a movie–unsavory characters, a fool, the superhero government agency dedicated to saving lives, and the geeky nerds who think science trumps lies. No cool spacecraft or benevolent aliens unfortunately. I’ll work on that.

OK, let’s get with the story.

Characters

 

Mr. Andrew Wakefield – The villain of this movie, a callous, narcissistic ex-physician who has an intense disregard for human life, specifically children. Known as one of the greatest scientific fraudsters of the last 100 years, he is the de facto demigod of the Evil Cult of Antivaccination. After his article claiming that MMR vaccine (for the prevention of measles, mumps and rubella) caused autism was retracted by the medical journal, Wakefield moved to Texas to plot his revenge on the world.

Andrew Wakefield fraud

Dr. Brian Hooker – One of Wakefield’s evil minions is Brian Hooker, an engineer with no background at all in any of the key scientific fields of study involving vaccines: immunology, virology, microbiology, epidemiology, public health, or anything. Ironically, Hooker is on the faculty of Simpson University, a safety school for those who can’t get into an online university, which is well-known as an uncompetitive, low-ranked California based Christian university. It’s biology department is grounded in real pseudoscience, including denial of evolution and pushing creationism. As a one of the antagonists of this story, it’s clear that there is nothing in Dr. Hooker’s background that indicates he knows anything about vaccines, save for being a paid shill for the anti-vaccination group, Focus Autism.

Dr. William Thompson – The clown of this story, Dr. Thompson, has been involved in researching vaccines at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) since the late 1990’s. All of his research has been supportive of the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, and many of his articles have helped debunk the myth that vaccines cause autism. Being a naive and guileless researcher, he was duped by Wakefield and Hooker to make some random comments about an article written by Hooker. The audience has no idea what Thompson said. But the antivaccination forces have claimed that Dr. Thompson is a mysterious “whistleblower” who takes down all of research ever done by the CDC and vaccines.

Autism Media Channel – They are the corrupt producers of a video central to the plot of this story. The Autism Media Channel has a long history of producing videos that allow Wakefield to shill his particularly vile brand of misinformation. One of their most dreadful videos was about Alex Spourdalakis, an autistic child who was murdered by his mother and another caretaker because neither could not handle his Alex’s autism.

Wakefield and his sycophants excused the murder because the poor mother and caretaker couldn’t deal with the “vaccine injuries” that caused Alex’s autism, and “they had no choice.” The movie’s coup de grace is showing Wakefield, in his full narcissistic glory, takes the opportunity to ask for money from the viewers.

The CDC – A government agency whose only goal is to protect public health and safety of Americans (but really the whole world) through the control and prevention of disease, injury, and disability. The CDC is made up of civilians and members of the United States Public Health Service, who have backgrounds in every field of bio-medicine, including immunology, virology, public health, microbiology, parasitology, epidemiology, and many other fields. Many are MD-Ph.D.’s, who have spent nearly two decades in advanced education to be the best and brightest of their respective fields of study. They are scientific professionals who have forsaken huge money in the public sector to dedicate themselves to saving human lives. They are the heroes of our story.

Legion of Science Bloggers – A group of writers, who take time out of their busy lives as researchers, educators, surgeons, physicians, scientists, and good people who reject pseudoscience and the Wizardry of Woo, to fight the good fight in support of vaccinations and to reject the lies and misinformation of the Evil Cult of Antivaccination.

 
 

Scene 1 – The CDC coverup

 

During the ancient times of 2004, CDC researchers (including William Thompson) published data in a Pediatrics article by DeStefano et al. which concluded that there was no difference in vaccination rates in autistic and non-autistic children in Atlanta.

Since the CDC’s data is open to whomever asks (with certain restrictions for privacy), Hooker decided to rejigger the data to fit his own preformed conclusions – he was going to find anything that “proved” his unfounded belief that the MMR vaccine causes autism.

Taking a cue from his buddy Wakefield, Hooker started this whole manufactroversy of this story by throwing his data into an an article published on 8 August in Translational Neurodegenerationa journal with such a low impact factor, it doesn’t actually have one.

Shockingly, Hooker’s data allows him to contradict DeStefano’s original CDC study and come to a totally opposite conclusion:

The present study provides new epidemiologic evidence showing that African American males receiving the MMR vaccine prior to 24 months of age or 36 months of age are more likely to receive an autism diagnosis.

Most of the pro-science bloggers critiqued Hooker’s article as junk science.

One of the most vilified pro-science writers, who stands stands solidly against the Wizards of Woo, David Gorski, MD, penned a thorough analysis of Hooker’s article. According to Dr. Gorski,

Hooker did a cohort study. He analyzed data collected for a case-control study as a cohort study. Basically, he looked at the risk of an autism diagnosis in the groups first exposed to MMR at different age ranges. Remember, case control = comparing risk factor frequency in people with a condition compared to controls; cohort = examining risk of condition in people with different exposures.

Apparently, Hooker took data collected in one manner, and chose to analyze it as if it was collected in a way that would work with his analytical methods,  just to fit his pre-conceived, a priori, conclusions, that vaccines cause autism (and somehow the CDC criminally withheld this data). Let’s quote Mark Twain: “Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable.”

But it gets worse. Hooker’s article cites studies from Mark, and his son David, Geier, minor characters in this particular story, but who are infamous “researchers” who push the “vaccines cause autism” myth. Worse yet, the Geiers used this myth to prescribe the horrific Lupron Therapy to treat children with autism. They are charlatans, who are part of the Cult of Anti-Vaccination, and have zero scientific credibility – their licenses to practice this horrific therapy have been revoked in several states.

Another member of the Legion of Science Bloggers, Poxes Blog, reviewed Hooker’s statistical analyses, and concluded that Hooker’s stats were ludicrous:

Next come the statistics. Hooker uses Pearson’s chi squared test to see if there is a significant association between MMR and autism in children at different ages. DeStefano et al used conditional logistic regression. For the non-biostatisticians out there, the technique that DeStefano et al used accounts for confounders and effect modifiers, different traits in their population that could skew the results. Hooker’s technique doesn’t really do that, unless you stratify results and use very, very large datasets. Hooker’s approach is more “conservative,” meaning that it will detect small effects and amplify them, and those effects can come from anything.

So why did we not see this in the other ethnic groups or in girls? The answer here is simple, again. Hooker had a limited dataset to work with when he boiled it down to African-American baby boys. In this table, for example, he tells us that he had to modify the analysis to 31 months instead of 36 because he had less than 5 children in that group. It’s the same goddamned mistake that Andrew Jeremy Wakefield wanted to pass off as legitimate science. You cannot, and must not use small numbers to make big assertions

And so it starts. Hooker uses small, tiny numbers, and makes huge claims that somehow the children in the original study were more susceptible to autism based on five children.

Scene 2 – A demon enters

 

Mr. Wakefield stars in an Autism Media Channel video that alleges that a mysterious whistleblowing CDC researcher has provided Wakefield and Hooker with evidence that CDC researchers (and by inference the CDC itself) withheld evidence that vaccines cause autism. The movie compares researchers, the CDC, and all of the Legion of Science Bloggers as being Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin wrapped up into one. Wakefield goes full Godwin.

Using Hooker’s “big assertion”, Wakefield, along with his cronies at Autism Media Channel, declare that the suppression of this data is as horrifying to the African-American community as was the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, a travesty in which the US Public Health Service observed young/poor black men with syphilis to study its effects, without telling them they were infected. The study lasted from 1932-1972, and has been widely condemned by modern researchers.

In this fictional story pushed by the Evil Cult of Antivaccination, they invent the “Tuskegee” strawman argument which ends up being both repugnant and racist. And about as ridiculous a strawman comparison as I’ve ever seen in my long life of dealing with anti-science creeps.

First, no experiments were done on the black children in the original DeStefano study–the complete opposite of the Tuskegee experiments. The DeStefano article presented an epidemiological case-control study, that just accumulated data from medical records and birth certificates. No one was harmed in this study.

Second, Hooker and Wakefield present no evidence whatsoever (remember, typical of the Evil Cult of Antivaccination) that African-American children are more at risk of autism after MMR vaccination than any other person. In fact, the better evidence, published by DeStefano, says that MMR vaccines have NOTHING to do with autism.

Third, there is absolutely no evidence that MMR vaccines cause autism.

Fourth, Wakefield and Hooker provide us with NO plausible biological reason that black children would be more at risk of autism than white, Asian, or other children. Only if Hooker and Wakefield are racists and promote racial ideology, they would know that white, black, Native American, Asian, Arabic, or any other children are genetically nearly exactly the same.

There simply isn’t anything biologically difference between these ethnic groups. Well, unless you’re an advocate of the racial laws of Nazi Germany. We can go full Godwin on both sides of this story.

Scene 3 – Here comes the manufactroversy

 

Mr. Wakefield stars in a new Autism Media Channel video that named Dr. William W. Thompson as the “The CDC Whistleblower. This causes the Evil Cult of Antivaccination to go in full obligatory ecstasy because they now can invent new lies about the heroic CDC and their researchers.

Headlines scream: CDC Whistleblower William Thompson Blows the Lid on Malfeasance and Fraud at the CDCBreaking: CDC whistleblower Thompson in grave danger nowCDC Whistleblower’s Claims Cause Uproar In Autism Community. Oh noooooooooooooooo. (Picture the Evil Cult of Anti-Vaccination doing a happy dance.)

Rob Schneider, a 10th rate actor whose career consisted of movies targeted at teenage males, a notoriously undemanding demographic, pontificates about the story. Not sure anyone really cares.

Scene 4 – The CDC heroes fight back

 

The CDC responds to the kerfuffle by being scientific, honest, and civil:

The CDC study did not present data by race on black, white, or other race children from the whole study sample. It presented the results on black and white/other race children from the group with birth certificates.

The data CDC collected for this study continue to be available for analysis by others. CDC welcomes analysis by others that can be submitted for peer-review and publication.

Additional studies and a more recent rigorous review by the Institute of Medicine have found that MMR vaccine does not increase the risk of autism.

Because the CDC speaks in a scientific, careful manner, we should translate from CDC-ese with subtitles:

  1. The DeStefano study did not make any representations about race.
  2. The CDC is open to further analysis of any of its data as long as it is submitted for peer-review and publication in an open manner.
  3. Rigorous scientific study has shown us that vaccines do not cause autism. Nope, they don’t.

Scene 5 – William Thompson speaks

 

William Thompson comes out of hiding, apparently trying to avoid the black-helmeted, jack-booted, hit-squads accepted a bonus from his bosses at the CDC. Then, Thompson, through attorneys rather than the CDC (waiting for some explanation as to why), makes the following statement:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-AUGUST 27,2014 STATEMENT OF WILLIAM W. THOMPSON, Ph.D., REGARDING THE 2004 ARTICLE EXAMINING THE POSSIBILITY OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MMR VACCINE AND AUTISM

My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998.

I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.

I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives. I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits. My concern has been the decision to omit relevant findings in a particular study for a particular sub­ group for a particular vaccine. There have always been recognized risks for vaccination and I believe it is the responsibility of the CDC to properly convey the risks associated with receipt of those vaccines.

I have had many discussions with Dr. Brian Hooker over the last 10 months regarding studies the CDC has carried out regarding vaccines and neurodevelopmental outcomes including autism spectrum disorders. I share his belief that CDC decision-making and analyses should be transparent. I was not, however, aware that he was recording any of our conversations, nor was I given any choice regarding whether my name would be made public or my voice would be put on the Internet.

I am grateful for the many supportive e-mails that I have received over the last several days.

I will not be answering further questions at this time. I am providing information to Congressman William Posey, and of course will continue to cooperate with Congress. I have also offered to assist with reanalysis of the study data or development of further studies. For the time being, however, I am focused on my job and my family.

Reasonable scientists can and do differ in their interpretation of information. I will do everything I can to assist any unbiased and objective scientists inside or outside the CDC to analyze data collected by the CDC or other public organizations for the purpose of understanding whether vaccines are associated with an increased risk of autism. There are still more questions than answers, and I appreciate that so many families are looking for answers from the scientific community.

My colleagues and supervisors at the CDC have been entirely professional since this matter became public. In fact, I received a performance-based award after this story came out. I have experienced no pressure or retaliation and certainly was not escorted from the building, as some have stated.

Dr. Thompson is represented by Frederick M. Morgan,Jr., Morgan Verkamp, LLC, Cincinnati, Ohio

Dr. Thompson makes an unfounded statement about failing to report findings pushed by Hooker. In previous scenes for this story, we have already see that Hooker’s analysis was both statistically and scientifically bogus. Nothing was hidden. Nothing was omitted. But as a character, it’s clear that Thompson is a tool of Wakefield and Hooker. A very pathetic, weak character.

But Thompson still says that vaccines save “countless lives.”

Apparently, Thompson is so naive, he didn’t know that Hooker was recording their conversations, and allowed them to be taken out of context.

And it becomes clear that the jack-booted SWAT team from the CDC isn’t out to arrest Thompson. They seem to like him, since they gave him a performance-based award. But Thompson walks off into the sunset with his scientific reputation in tatters, and probably his career down the drain. Of course, like other scientists who are seduced by the ego-stroking and monetary lure of the Evil Cult of Anti-vaccination, he will go on to a long career of being one of Wakefield’s minions.

Mike Adams, one of the the demon spawn of the Evil Cult of Antivaccination, hyperventilates. Apparently, not reading the full press release, Adams believes that the CDC publishes fraudulent studies. His underlings and lackeys raise their glasses of kale juice and sea urchin urine in celebration. The science bloggers laugh.

Scene 6 – Here comes the truth

 

Original script: Hooker’s article published in Translational Neurodegeneration is withdrawn:

This article has been removed from the public domain because of serious concerns about the validity of its conclusions. The journal and publisher believe that its continued availability may not be in the public interest. Definitive editorial action will be pending further investigation.

Revised script: On 3 October, 2014, Hooker’s article published in  Translational Neurodegeneration was formally retracted by the journal’s Editors:

The Editor and Publisher regretfully retract the article as there were undeclared competing interests on the part of the author which compromised the peer review process. Furthermore, post-publication peer review raised concerns about the validity of the methods and statistical analysis, therefore the Editors no longer have confidence in the soundness of the findings. We apologise to all affected parties for the inconvenience caused.

Laughter ensues.

Hooker utilized Wakefield’s amateurish statistical methodology and sample sizes, while following the pattern that lead to Wakefield’s own article being retracted. Maybe they’re the same persons? Has anyone ever seen them in the same place together. Could be a good plot point.

Orac, one of the insolent members of the League of Scientific Bloggers, and who denies being the Skeptical Raptor, writes the not-so-final scene of the movie:

On the other hand, I knew that retracting this paper would simply feed the conspiracy theorists of the antivaccine movement in a way that almost nothing else could, and if this removal does end up being the first step towards retraction it will drive the antivaccine conspiracy contingent into even greater heights of frenzy. But then I thought about it. Everything feeds into the conspiracy theories of antivaccinationists. We don’t care about changing their minds, because their minds can’t be changed. What we do care about is persuading the general public, particularly the fence sitters, and a retraction of a scientific paper sends a powerful message to the public about a study.

The script will reflect what this retraction means–the article was so bad, that even a new journal, one with no reputation whatsoever, needed to defend their reputation by retracting the paper as if it never existed. This is just a modern version of the 90’s story about Wakefield’s fraud.

Certified bullshit of the CDC coverup

The prologue

 

There is nothing here, from the CDC “hiding evidence of autism” to Brian Hooker’s article (now retracted) to the so-called whistleblower.

The CDC still looks good. They still stand for saving human life. The science-based bloggers still have laser focus on the scientific truth based on scientific evidence. Thompson looks like a pathetic, weak-minded loser whose actions were despicable and idiotic. It sounds like he wanted to whine about some professional disagreement (if that), and decided to call Hooker, a vile human being who lacks any credibility and never had any credibility. Hooker and Wakefield, the sociopaths that they are, probably laughed about how they manipulated Thompson into doing their foul deeds.

But this story, based in both truth and a fictional study, never ends. In a few months, the Evil Cult of Antivaccination will jump on some other story and make someone else their cause célèbre. But most of us will be there, supporting real science over false claims, lies, and manipulating data.

Cue the end credits. Cut to black.

Editor’s note: This article was originally published in October 2014. It has been completely revised and updated to include more comprehensive information, to improve readability and to add current research.

The Original Skeptical Raptor
Chief Executive Officer at SkepticalRaptor
Lifetime lover of science, especially biomedical research. Spent years in academics, business development, research, and traveling the world shilling for Big Pharma. I love sports, mostly college basketball and football, hockey, and baseball. I enjoy great food and intelligent conversation. And a delicious morning coffee!
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  • Kathy

    Epic! Thanks for adding more recent info.

    • It just makes me laugh that we debunked this 1 year ago. And over the past week, I’ve seen literally dozens of anti-science comments and articles that reference this. It’s just too funny.

  • MJHopeC

    Why, if the CDC is so wonderful, have they refused to release the full data of the study?

    Also, if you are a friend of Dr Stephen Barrett (delicensed doctor, self-defined psychiatrist (failed board exams)) who is paying you?

    • They have you ignorant fool.

    • Kathy

      Who has asked for data and been refused? Seems to me everyone has it already. Ben Swann has it!

      • That’s more garbage. The CDC releases data freely, except for anything that violates privacy, like names.

    • LouVeha

      Also, regarding Dr Barrett, he is retired, so obviously he let his license expire. I doubt this is the same “delicensed” you are thinking about.

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  • gseattle

    All vaccines are perfect, shut up and do as you’re told, autism has no cause.

    … basically the message for us by the paid media now.

    • Autism has a cause you ignorant fool. It’s genes passed on from the mother and father.

      • gseattle

        Hahahahhaha what to do when the moderator himself launches into hair-trigger ad hominem. Thank you for noticing me.

        You are partly correct, some have more genetic susceptibility, however that isn’t the full story.

        1989 is dubbed the gateway year by the EPA, when autism and many others skyrocketed. Suggest materials by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (a lot of research for his book, note I did not call him an “authority”), and then if he says anything you disagree with you have another target for the vitriol. Good huh? Any time, no need to thank me.

        Below you said “You’re clueless what constitutes an ad hominem”.

        Ad hominem is defined as “attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering his argument”.

        Some of your words in the last 10 days addressing 20 people: clueless, fool, fake, lack any intellect, ignorant, sociopath, disgusting, boring, moron, troll, quack, fuck, shit, insulting, insanity, nut job, stupidity, asshole

        Name-calling is ad hominem (literally: to the person).

        • You’re clueless what constitutes an ad hominem. I have evidence on my side, you lie. So I get to call you on it.

          Go have a love affair with your hero, MR. Andrew Fucking Wakefield.

        • Sandy Perlmutter

          Robert F Kennedy Jr is an authority? And if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

        • LouVeha

          “1989 is dubbed the gateway year by the EPA, when autism and many others skyrocketed”
          [citation needed]
          I take RFK Jr even less seriously since he (who is supposed to have written about thimerosal extensively) said that there was thimerosal in MMR.
          http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2015/11/16/mr-kennedy-if-you-know-the-science-why-did-you-claim-that-the-mmr-vaccine-contains-mercury/
          Finally, I follow autism news and research enough to know that mainstream media most certainly doesn’t say “autism has no cause”.

  • From your About me and this blog section:

    “It is neither optimized for or tested on other platforms, including including Internet Explorer.”

    One “including” should do. Well, unless that is a very subtle (too subtle for me) dig at Internet Explorer.

    • Sandy Perlmutter

      I volunteer to be a copy editor/proofreader for Raptor — there are always a few typos. Not errors of fact, however.

      Nobody tests for IE! Many of us use Macs, and we don’t have access to the miserable thing, which is being discontinued by Microsoft.

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  • Boris Ogon

    Five more hours, and six more muffled “replies” from @lowellhubbs:disqus on his tippy-toes from under JeffyJohn’s kilt.

  • Boris Ogon

    I am highly amused that @lowellhubbs:disqus is such a chickenshit that he’s spent a good part of the last 12 hours “replying” to me in a venue where JeffyJohn banned me with trivially false “TOS” bluster in order to save Lodwill from himself.

  • Landscutz
    • kellymbray

      No, but citing Mercola nullifies your argument.

      • Hououin Kyouma

        I thought that site was nonsense. I saw something on there about wheat having a CAUSAL relationship with mental disorders. The cited articles were from GreenMed, big surprise, and I could not find a paper making any such claim.

        Do you, by any chance, know the veracity of such a claim? I am interested but my look of the literature hasn’t yielded much information aside from it being related to people with actual wheat/gluten related diseases.

        • Brief primer on con artists that I’m aware of:

          Mike Adams, so-called “Health Ranger.” In actuality, he’s a nut of the lowest order, has not met a conspiracy theory he didn’t love and embrace.

          Vani Hari, so-called Food “Babe.” Calls herself an expert on food. In actuality, another nut. Hasn’t yet gone as far down the rat hole as Adams, but is circling the drain. Says she “won’t eat it if I can’t pronounce it.” Good thing for her no one has yet to tell her that coconut oil is also known as Diethanolamine Condesate Acid, and kale is also known as Brassica oleracea, or she’d die.

          Joe Mercola, a so-called “Natural health Expert.” On par with Adams.

          Alex Jones, so-called “Freedom Fighter for You Mind.” Holy shitballs, this guy is fucking nuts. If there’s a conspiracy theory out there, it either is seen as the Gospel by this guy, or he originated it.

          Andy Wakefield. So-called Doctor. In actuality, he lost his license to practice due to his fraudulent “MMR Causes Autism” study. Thanks to him, so many are still beating that horse.

          None of them would know science if she came up and slapped the taste out of their mouths.

          If anyone links you to Green Med, Natural News, Mercola dot com, Info Wars, or Whale dot to, go ahead and dismiss them. Those websites are cesspools of junk, woo, bullshit, and crap.

          • Hououin Kyouma

            I knew about a few of those, especially Wakefield. We had a nice long discussion about him in my research methods course; the perfect example of what NOT to do in research. I enjoy reading published papers and thankfully, being at a university, I have access to a wide array of journals to search in for information. I may have missed them, but couldn’t find a single thing supporting such points. Oh well, more nonsense websites to add to the “waste of life” pile.

            • Whatcha studyin’?

            • Hououin Kyouma

              Psychology is my major with a minor in Chemistry. Most of my Psych courses are in Experimental or Biological Psychology because I enjoy the “harder” side of Psychology. I plan on pursuing a PhD in Neuroscience. High goals, but it’s what I really want to learn about to the fullest.

            • Mad props, amigo. Might not mean anything from a ‘Net stranger, but I’ll be cheering for you.

            • AutismDad

              The harder side of pyschology? Nothing hard about it unless you’re not bright.

        • AutismDad

          As a person with a grass allergy which includes wheat, rye, banana, honey, sugar cane, and cows milk and cow milk products…. I can testify that continued exposure leaves me weak, irritable, headache, confusion, hives, stomach burning, itchy eyes, itchy body, bloody stool. So wheat can and does affect me. If I hadn’t had the physical reactions like swollen throat and the others and I wasn’t the type to investigate, I would suffer. I have brothers who don’t believe me and I watch them suffer because of that denial.

      • Just simply swiping off the table here any and all non pro-vaccine information; that clearly nullifies your argument. You do not have any valid science, and you do not have any argument, accept in the refusal of all independent information.

        VACCINES AND AUTISM – WHAT DO EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES REALLY TELL US?
        http://www.rescuepost.com/files/vaccines-and-autism-epidemiology-rebuttal.pdf

        You Can’t Find the Truth About Vaccines by Burying Your Head in (Vested Interests in Vaccines) Peer-Reviewed Studies
        http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/truth-about-vaccines-beyond-peer-review/

        NEJM editor: “No longer possible to believe much of clinical research published”

        Harvard Medical School’s Dr. Marcia Angell is the author of The Truth About the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do About It. But more to the point, she’s also the former Editor-in-Chief at the New England Journal of Medicine, arguably one of the most respected medical journals on earth. But after reading her article in the New York Review of Books called Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption, one wonders if any medical journal on earth is worth anybody’s respect anymore.

        “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.”

        Read more:
        http://ethicalnag.org/2009/11/09/nejm-editor/

        Vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD

        We also know that in pertussis (whooping cough) those who are vaccinated are more likely, due to original antigenic sin, to be carriers of the bacteria longer than the non-vaccinated, even when asymptomatic. In his article published in Clinical Infectious Disease in 2004 Full text article available here, Dr. James Cherry pointed out that adults, re-vaccinated against pertussis, don’t develop any antibacterial activity whatsoever. He went on to explain why. The current vaccines contain a few antigens, which create “original antigenic sin”, whereby the immune response to the vaccine is abnormal. That first-learned response then becomes the default position the immune system takes, on future booster shots. So in the case of the whooping cough vaccines there are key protein virulence factors which have not been included in the vaccines including ACT, TCF, TCT, as well as BrkA and DNT.

        Because the first three are not included, the default immune response does not prevent colonization, and furthermore, Cherry stated that the “original antigenic sin” results in the vaccinated being unable to clear the bacteria from their lungs. The non-vaccinated have immunity to all the front line virulence factors and very quickly clear the bacteria on re-exposure.

        Mothers who have been vaccinated, may develop surrogate markers which can be measured in a laboratory, but these do not guarantee efficient immune responses after exposure to the natural disease, because their first “learned response” was incorrect. Furthermore, they are still not sure “what” the surrogate marker actually is for pertussis.

        There is similar information on measles, the other disease that has been portrayed by the media as a danger to the population due to non-vaccinated children. But this information is not accurate, nor is measles a dangerous disease in people who have sufficient vitamin A. Damien pointed out that the vaccinated are 5-8 times more susceptible to asymptomatic infection than the non-vaccinated. How then, are the non-vaccinated solely responsible for the recent outbreaks in measles?

        Many vaccines are said to be “attenuated” or modified-live and supposedly do not infect, but over the decades we have seen how those attenuated viruses mutate once they are in a human and can spread more virulent disease than what is being vaccinated for. The oral polio vaccines in Nigeria today is a case in point. But this can happen with any attenuated viral vaccine.

        Read more:
        http://drsuzanne.net/dr-suzanne-humphries-vaccines-vaccination/

        The Current Failure of Pertussis and Measles Vaccine
        http://www.vacfacts.info/the-current-failure-of-pertussis-and-measles-vaccine.html

        Dr Andrew Wakefield – MMR Vaccine – Truth and Reality
        http://www.vacfacts.info/dr-andrew-wakefield—mmr-vaccine—truth-and-reality.html

        (Dr.) Paul Offit- The Real Truth (otherwise better known as,”Dr. Proffit”)
        http://www.vacfacts.info/paul-offit—the-real-truth.html

        Educate 4 The Vaccine Injured
        http://www.educate4theinjured.org/

        • Chi

          You know that before she went all woo oriented, Suzanne Humphries was a KIDNEY doctor right? Thus she has no credentials whatsoever to be speaking about vaccines, immunology, epidemiology and the like. Just saying you REALLY need to look at these so-called doctors. And don’t even get me started on the anti-vax propaganda on that ‘vacfacts’ site. Vaclies is more apt.

          • As I’ve written a lot lately, the anti-vaxxers accept the Appeal to Authority, even when the authority isn’t much of one. I, on the other hand, only accept evidence irrespective of the researcher who provides the evidence. A good researcher has many years in one field. He publishes in great journals. And he supports the consensus of the scientists, unless he has valid, well supported data to justify attacking the consensus.

            • AutismDad

              What a liar

          • Kathy

            Vaclies is right.

            And Suzanne spent last few years studying homeopathy. Clear sign she’s gone all woo.

  • Boris Ogon

    The expression of concern is curious. It fails to mention the catastrophic bungling of the analysis and lack of descriptive statistics. Instead, one gets this:

    The Publisher of this article [1] has serious concerns about the validity of its conclusions because of possible undeclared competing interests of the author and peer reviewers. The matter is undergoing investigation. In the meantime, readers are advised to treat the reported conclusions of this study with caution.

    Further action will be taken, if appropriate, once our investigation is complete.

  • brianna

    Dr. Thompson admitted that himself and co-authors of the study in 2004 omitted significant data out of the study that suggested a link between an increase in autism in African American children. Now your trying to twist his official statement. If you think that this is how scientific studies should be performed, then you do not care about science and it’s integrity. Put your pride aside people and at least admit that this study was flawed.

    • You are simply misinformed. On Dr. Thompson, a weak and pathetic loser who never was a lead author, admitted nothing to the such. And the lead author himself, DeStefano, stands by the data.

      If you really tried to understand the real issues in this manufactroversy, you’d understand that the data ignored was for FIVE children. You cannot make any clinically and statistically significant analysis on five children. You’re listening to the pseudoscience pushers, who fail to understand the difference between real analysis and crap analysis.

      • Alyssa McMorrow

        And how is it supposed to look when one of the co-authors of the 2004 study makes the following statement?

        “Oh my God, I did not believe that we did what we did, but we did. It’s all there… This is the lowest point in my career, that I went along with that paper. I have great shame now when I meet families of kids with autism, because I have been part of the problem.”

        You can be a condescending smartass all you want, but the fact is that, whether there’s a valid link between vaccines and autism or not, these statements by Thompson are incredibly damaging to the pro-vaccine debate.

        • Lawrence McNamara

          @alyssa – taken out of context, that statement could mean anything….any particular reason that Wakefield refuses to release the whole recording?

          • Alyssa McMorrow

            I’m not Andrew Wakefield, Lawrence, so I really can’t answer that. I would imagine that getting Thompson to elaborate on his comments would be the most logical thing to do. Any particular reason why Thompson hired a top false claims/whistleblower lawyer to represent him?

            • Lawrence McNamara

              Probably a CYA move on his part….prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

            • kellymbray

              I’m not Dr. Thompson, Alyssa, so I really can’t answer that.

        • Maybe his comment was meant to include this line, “…all there, the way I helped these loons say that vaccines caused autism. This is the lowest point of my career…”

          • Alyssa McMorrow

            Let
            me ask you a question: do scientists really expect to change any minds with derision,
            sarcasm, and condescension? Perhaps you should confer with some psychologists
            regarding a change in technique.

            • Lawrence McNamara

              Wow – never thought of that :-). Perhaps you should be over at AoA delivering that same advice.

            • kellymbray

              I just love whiny tone trolls…don’t you?

            • AutismDad

              They make good mentors for guys like you.

            • Like you have an open mind. LOLOLOLOLOL. Like you actually listen to real evidence. Like you actually give two fucks.

              You WANT to believe that vaccines are dangerous, so you take a sentence out of context and make up pure, unadulterated bullshit.

              So science doesn’t matter to you, don’t try to make it appear so. You’re close-minded as they get, so we get to treat you with sarcasm, derision and condescension. Because that’s what you deserve.

            • Alyssa McMorrow

              Lol, you’re mature, aren’t ya!

              I actually never stated either way what my opinions were; I simply said that the comment does not look good from the perspective of one of those dumb “non-scientists”, and that maybe if you *actually* want to educate people, instead of just endlessly talking shit, that you might ease up on the “pretentious dick” vibe.

              I’ll listen to real evidence all day long…hell, I don’t even have kids so I don’t really have an agenda here. But I’m sorry to tell you that when you act like such an obnoxious buffoon, you are the only one who seems closed-minded, and you give off the appearance that you can’t possibly win a debate without having to tote out every ad hominem attack under the sun. I do have to say, if this is the way that scientists find it appropriate to conduct themselves, then perhaps people are right to not trust a word you have to say.

            • Alyssa McMorrow

              Hey, how come you refer to yourself as a shill for the pharmaceutical industry? Is that supposed to be your idea of a clever joke or something?

            • AutismDad

              He’s paid by pharma to set up this site to spread misinfo. Divide and conquer. If a portion of the public, lets call them fools, believe that vaccines don’t cause autism, they will spread that manure around, infecting others. Its like getting approval from trusted people, like Fire Fighters, nurses, etc who most people trust and using them to promote vaccine ideology. Its why schools are used as corrals and as means to coerse parents to vac before a child can attend.

            • Thilina
            • You have, of course, failed to read what I wrote above. YAWN.

            • Thilina

              Important thing is Dr. Thompson still works at CDC if he is a fraud why not us government take action immediately

            • lilady R.N.

              Hmmm, you could always ask crank conspiracist Jon Rappoport, who claimed that The CDC sent their jack-booted goon squad to escort William Thompson out of The CDC building and shoved him into a black helicopter. The ignorati of the anti-vaccine world organized prayer groups to pray for his safety.

              Contact Rappoport and let us all know where Thompson is.

            • AutismDad

              You can bet he’s received an ultimatum. Why do you think we are hearing nothing of it? Even the “investigation” is suspect. You can bet there will be meetings meant to hone their damage control skills.

            • AutismDad

              made you yawn too?

            • Obviously.

            • Mike Stevens

              “Bare in mind”?
              …..Characterising yourself?

            • notation

              Snerk.

            • AutismDad

              Troll extrordinaire

            • You’ve outed yourself.

            • Not seen you around for a while. Hope all is well with you, my friend.

            • AutismDad

              Mike DUH Stevens, the Queen of immature responses.

            • The hypocrisy is astounding.

            • AutismDad

              Mr big words.

            • AutismDad

              Another troll with issues of immaturity

            • And this is the best you can resort to? Pot, meet Kettle.

            • AutismDad

              Make it 2 of them. Both born wearing clown suits.

            • McMorrow-san, by the time the sarcasm, derision, and condescension come out, we’ve already seen there’s no changing that person’s mind with facts and evidence.

              Oh, and based on personal experience alone, I think psychology is rather dodgy. I don’t mess with it because of said experience.

          • AutismDad

            Another troll who won’t actually debate, and shows his maturity is still stuck on juvenile.

            • There’s nothing to debate, dummy.

              A debate can only occur when both sides have equal points. Such as Mike has a Dodge Ram, and I have a Chevy Silverado. He & I can have a debate as to which is better.*

              Dorit prefers walnuts, I prefer pecans. She and I can debate which is better.*

              Lilady prefers hydrogen fuel cells, and I prefer spent uranium. We both can debate which would be a better energy source for cars.*

              You are anti-vaccine. I am pro-vaccine. We cannot have a debate because I have thousands of studies as well as almost 100 years of safety and efficacy data while you have anecdotes; cherry-picked, flawed studies; and blog posts.

              You think those on the ASD are flawed, and to be pitied, and scorned. I’m on the ASD, and I say bullshit. There’s nothing wrong with us.

              * These are for illustration purposes only. We’ve actually not discussed any of these things, and so these are not their actual standings on these issues.

            • AutismDad

              Just as I defined you.

    • Boris Ogon

      Dr. Thompson admitted that himself [sic] and co-authors of the study in 2004 omitted significant data

      Which would those be?

      • Thilina

        I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed. http://www.morganverkamp.com/august-27-2014-press-release-statement-of-william-w-thompson-ph-d-regarding-the-2004-article-examining-the-possibility-of-a-relationship-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism/

        • They left out FIVE (read that carefully, FIVE) data points, because….let’s think this through, but n=5 is pretty close to n=0. It has NO fucking relevance, scientifically.

          You flunk statistics. Go back to the third grade.

          • Thilina

            You can listen to this youtube.com/watch?v=RiU3I1yUnyM
            and now since the data is out you will be able to get a analysis

          • AutismDad

            Grow up

        • Boris Ogon

          @disqus_iUQOld9hQa:disqus, did you have anything to offer aside from a failure to grasp quotation marks?

          • Thilina

            Of course How Mercury Destroys Brain Neurons

            CDC Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in USA

            Please listen to the lady Doctor admits about mercury. This is
            a congressional hearing.

            • Boris Ogon

              Sorry, I don’t do argument by random YouTube videos. I do, however, know more than a little about mercury toxicology. Explain it in your own words, and specify the form of mercury, because each is different.

            • Thilina

              Yes of course but I think picture is better than 1000 words listen to this youtube.com/watch?v=loj5CaueA_E

              Also Listen to the congress testimony youtube.com/watch?v=F__NIq35Ul4

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

              This is a form of highly toxic Mercury

            • Boris Ogon

              Yes of course but I think picture is better than 1000 words listen to this

              Given that you have merely reposted the same thing after being told that I am uninterested in random YouToob videos, I can only assume that you are in fact wholly incapable of producing on your own anything even vaguely resembling a coherent remark about mercury toxicology.

            • AutismDad

              I have assumptions of you. They aren’t good.

            • Thilina

              Thimerosal is a
              mercury-containing preservative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kiUgJAxAZ0

              Highly toxic form of mercury only second to cyanide!

            • Boris Ogon

              I take it that you concede that your knowledge of actual mercury toxicology is nonexistent, as, apparently, are your reading skills. Not only do I not watch random YT videos, they don’t even appear for me.

            • Thilina
            • AutismDad

              And you constantly show you are simply ignorant while you think you provide clever responses.

            • The reason you use YouTube is because you don’t have a single peer-reviewed scientific article supporting your belief. And you know what a belief is? It’s stating a conclusion while ignoring evidence.

              Thimerosal is an ethyl mercury which is quickly pissed away in your urine.

            • Thilina

              where do you find that experiment ? last experiment that was done in USA is 1929 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd3xdAp9_Zk look at the congressional hearing this doctor was unable to confirm “Thimerosal is an ethyl mercury which is quickly pissed away in your urine.” don’t display your ignorance.

            • David

              Of course not..how many times have you done a mercury challenge test? Might you have ever tried to assess the mercury load in any patient.. Ever? Of course the system wails and protests when this is done. I have spent over two years of hard work pulling mercury from my organs and cells.
              Last testing I have plenty of aluminum.. Despite avoiding the water.. Lead and cadmium. Mercury is there even though it is not measured.
              14 year old patient has never had a mercury filling has high Kevel of mercury.. Where might that have come from? Would it be wonderful if all the nightmare ingredients magically disappeared from the body..? But ask the alchemist who put it in there why the mercury is there.. It preserves the pharmacological effect of the vaccine so it allegedly works over time.. Better not to pee it away right after it is administered…

            • AutismDad

              Shows you don’t know what you are talking about. Maybe you’ve pissed out too much mercury.

            • AutismDad

              You’re doing well. don’t let the legion of trolls deter your opinion.

          • Thilina

            Yes please listen to Immunity,
            Infectious Disease, and Vaccination – Raymond Obomsawin

            youtube.com/watch?v=KtN0PMJOOjM

            now you can go to CDC website and find the statistical information

            • lilady R.N.

              How about you do some investigation of Raymond Obomsawin…which earned him this Encyclopedia entry?

              http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2014/04/993-raymond-obomsawin.html

            • Thilina

              You trust a garbage blog. show me from a credible source.

              if you try to show these blogs try to prove this wronghttp://www.medicinekillsmillions.com/articles/truth-about-decline-of-the-infectious-diseases.html

            • Boris Ogon

              if you try to show these blogs try to prove this wrong

              Plotting mortality going back to the 19th century rather than morbidity (including permanent morbidity) suffices for it to prove itself not even wrong. Perhaps you’d like to explain the polio graph, though. That could be amusing.

            • Thilina

              Yes I will give you much more detail picture go to http://www.wellwithin1.com/pol_all.htm#pol_all_gif

              from this you can see DDT like chemical correlation to the Polio.

              “In 1983, via new legislation, DDT was allowed back into the U.S. marketplace, but only in pesticide blends. Within only a few months of this re-entry, a new kind of polio epidemic suddenly occurred. It was labeled “post-polio”, the re-emergence of polio symptoms in former victims. This has involved approximately 600,000 victims and is the graph above. Like most of the data on this website, this correlation is not even a whisper in the mainstream media.”

            • Boris Ogon

              from this you can see DDT like chemical correlation to the Polio

              From this comment, what I can see is that you are a prototypical sherson who has been exclusively raised on a premasticated diet.

            • Thilina

              Main reason why 20 century morality rate are going down is
              due to few reasons.

              Main reason is personal hygiene. Also now women will only give
              birth to 2 children mostly, so death rate can be limited, again people are
              aware about nutritious food, factors like this will increase life expectancy.
              About the polio graph you can clearly see the correlation to DDT.

              It’s not amusing its fact infect what happen http://www.wellwithin1.com/pol_all.htm#pol_all_gif

              What does this explain “In 1983, via new legislation, DDT
              was allowed back into the U.S. marketplace, but only in pesticide blends.
              Within only a few months of this re-entry, a new kind of polio epidemic
              suddenly occurred. It was labeled “post-polio”, the re-emergence of
              polio symptoms in former victims. This has involved approximately 600,000
              victims and is the graph above. Like most of the data on this website, this
              correlation is not even a whisper in the mainstream media.”

            • AutismDad

              lil lady BS simply trolls these forums spreading mental manure.

      • AutismDad

        can you not read? too mentally lazy?

    • AutismDad

      Well said

  • Delius

    An amusing aside: the PubMed reference to the study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25114790) has, for the author attribution, “Hooker BS”. Poor man, shackled by his parents before he even knew what hit him.

  • You know, you might be rather unfair to Dr. Thompson. It is entirely possible he never heard of Hooker, et al., and consented to do a regular interview with someone who may have presented himself as a media type. So, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Hell, I hadn’t heard of Hooker either until this debacle.

    • It’s possible. But then his lawyer’s statement makes me think he’s just a weak-willed dupe. It’s hard to see anything positive about Thompson’s actions in this manufactroversy.

      • You’re most likely right.

      • Dorit Reiss

        Trusting Hooker, anything else apart, was a serious error in judgment.

      • lilady R.N.

        Hooker did a lengthy presentation at yet another quackery convention three days ago. Here, he admits that he recorded Dr. Thompson’s phone conversations without telling him.

        None of the players (Hooker, Thompson, Wakefield), in this ongoing soap opera have degrees in epidemiology. Too dumb even to realize that you don’t critique a case-control study by turning it into a cohort study.

        P.S. I’m willing to bet that Hooker “suggested” some unsavory characters to do the peer-review of his study.

        • Mike Stevens

          Hooker on his statistical abilities (@ around 17 minutes):
          I’m not really that smart, so I like to do simple, easy things rather than much more intellectually challenging things.”

          Hooker on his Conflict of Interest (@ around 25 minutes)
          “I am not independent”

          Hooker on the phone recordings – Does he say he recorded them “legally” or “illegally”? (@27:40)
          I can’t quite tell which from the recording – it sounds like “illegally” to me but I am not sure (poor laptop speakers).
          From what he goes on to say however, talking about how “weighty” this decision was on his part to record the calls, how he took outside advice etc would indicate he did this without Thompson’s knowledge, so I assume he meant he did it “illegally”

          • Sounds like.

          • kellymbray

            Why hasn’t Hooker or Wakefield been arrested for illegal wiretapping?

          • AutismDad

            Thats correlation, a big no no

      • David

        This disgusting blog ignores all science and reason to believe that dozens of unnatural chemical compounds injected into babies can be somehow safe and effective without even a single test to prove the assertion. To dogmatically say that those in favor of keeping their children safe must come up with the science to prove the obvious is more than obnoxious–it is simple raw dogmatism.

        The reality here is that all vaccines have decades of failure, scandal and injury.
        The drug companies easily admit even though they have been granted immunity from prosecution–right in black and white on the package inserts parents almost are never allowed to see–that vaccines cause autism.
        The common sense that indicates taking babies and injecting them with the stated ingredients is what initially drives people away and is growing to shut the entire program down since there is no evidence in favor of the vaccine movement which has produced unprecedented epidemics of autoimmune hell for the population and many cases of death and horrible injury.
        This is a movement founded by science, and backed up wiht the complete confidence of the best scientific minds who have looked into the issue to conclude what it patently obvious to almost all reasonable people– toxic compounds are behind almost all disease and it begins with vaccines.
        Dead bodies do not lie. If vaccines were so safe–why does the government pay out billions in compensation to a tiny percentage of the a few of the damaged? Worldwide–vaccines are being scaled back since governments in other countries feel at least some obligation to their citizens. In America, in a poison based system–them is so little compassion for illness and injury and the government is so strongly linked to the drug companies–we are at maximum poisoning despite the easy admission of officials I have chatted with who agree with Wakefield right down the line. They admit he was right in private conversations and they are simply trying to find way out of losing their careers and avoiding prosecution and collapsing the whole dirty system at once. While the people have ruined lives–they are holding up their paychecks. Some bargain.
        Millions of people cannot have “adverse affects”–we all have natural and predictable events associated with things foreign to our bodies and need to be kept away from the population–not intentionally injected into them.

        The CDC is perhaps the most political and corrupt body in history. Sure, I wish the agency would disappear completely and the people whose lives have been ruined be given a chance to heal. But my wish is THEIR command and this will happen as they go all in for programs that cannot be upheld and public contempt will unleash. This blog is such an embarrassment to the sheep that follow the sayings of the silly and the drug companies.

        Learn science, learn something about medicine–this is great. But if you cannot listen to the victims–there is no hope for you. Mothers against drunk drivers became a national cause. Who could fight that? But mothers against vaccines–a cause larger by 30 times–is a cause ignored. How is that? Answer the question. Not one person answers these questions–not one person in this silly gang of ignorant people wants to speak to the ISSUE?

        Might you care if a vain attempt to purge mostly harmless and antique diseases hurts people far more profoundly than those already cured diseases? Might you care if 2/3rds of the list involves disease cured BEFORE the advent of mass vaccination –cured by sanitation, and better hygiene.

        • Boris Ogon

          Mothers against drunk drivers became a national cause. Who could fight that?

          Their own founder resigned over the group’s increasingly neo-Prohibitionist bent. MADD has advocated for mandatory breathalyzer interlocks on all new cars. It’s not too hard to criticize them.

          But mothers against vaccines–a cause larger by 30 times–is a cause ignored. How is that?

          Is there any chance that you would actually back up this quantitative assertion?

          • David

            I do not support mothers against drunk driving.. I do support encouraging drunks to stay off the highway.
            Similarly.. I support a huge reduction in vaccines given to our most vulnerable.
            The proof of my statement is the growing backlash among the victims which number in the millions…
            If you are right..why is everyone so sick?
            Bringing everyone of you slaves to see reality is too obvious… Can’t you open your eyes..? Do you care at all?
            End the CDC.. That would help enormously. Let mothers decide openly and without coercion if they wish to poison their children…

            • Boris Ogon

              If you are right..why is everyone so sick?

              “Right” about what? I asked you a question, and you started babbling incoherently. I suggest that you go figure out what “begging the question” actually means.

            • David

              YOU asked the question which is the very point of this entire blog–vaccines are supposedly safe and effective. I am here to merely ask–oh really?. Is that right? Millions are injured and sick and their plight is ignored. No headlines, few investigative stories–ONLY grassroots contempt.

              The people are enraged and this is why there are so many autism protest groups by vaccine victims I have already cited on this out of control irrational blog. Note the evil behind the fact that a tiny group of victims compensated with billions of taxpayer dollars are required to stay silent in return for the payoff so they cannot come forward and tell their stories. But this does not stop so many others but the media will not listen.

              I heartily support the National Vaccine Information Center–founded by the parents of injured children and I ask again–one more time-if vaccines were safe and effective–how can there be so many protest groups, so many billions in pay outs to injured children and America dead last in every statistical category of health? If this blog was correct, the world would happily follow America on its experiment to poison the people systematically but the world is running in the opposite direction with fewer vaccines. How is this possible?

              The system is literally killing us because we have give the poison pushers a monopoly and the people are deprived of far better and more scientific health care which honors the health of the individual instead of the profit and control on the system.

              Perhaps you might answer one of my questions which are so pertinent…I am a bit more than responsive.

            • Boris Ogon

              Millions are injured and sick and their plight is ignored.

              I refer you again to the suggestion of investigating the meaning of “begging the question” above.

              Perhaps you might answer one of my questions which are so pertinent…I am a bit more than responsive.

              You might also want to revisit the meaning of “responsive.” For example, consider this:

              But mothers against vaccines–a cause larger by 30 times–is a cause ignored. How is that?

              Is there any chance that you would actually back up this quantitative assertion?

              Your “responsiveness” yielded yet more babbling as though you hadn’t been asked a question in the first place.

            • David

              OK, I have indicated these previously but not on this particular thread. A real system of health care would have say 30 doctors with 30 different opinions–all in search of the best case for the patient. This is not at all in evidence in America anymore. INstead we have monopoly medicine and a system.

              So in the system–take the theoretical 30 doctors and instead of 30 individual specialized pro-patient opinions there is one opinion–the system opinion.

              So the system makes out great and the people get screwed. This is a very common phenomenon.

              But as I keep saying without remark since I can easily predict the near future–what happens to the opinion of people here when the system is forced to admit–seemingly overnight–that half the vaccines are not good and need to be tossed? Oh and btw, Wakefield and all the others are actually right about MMR and those need to be spaced and delayed…? What happens to the assumption of good solid science, etc?

              Just look at the WSJ -Monday Sept. 15-the call here from the hub of pro-poison promotion: :its time to re-think early cancer detection” and ” change the way we even talk about the disease.” The system offers one horrible cancer scenario–and bang–just like that–it seems to be all wrong. This is surely a wake up call for all those whose loved ones were needlessly killed by the cancer mob instead of being free to search for options that actually work.

              Please let Americans operate in freedom to decide to poison or not to poison their baby–to listen to some crazed so called oncologist who–as a class–only in the rank minority would choose their own poison for themselves–or NOT.

              So it is PREDICTABLE- that systems stink while DE-centrlized options work . In a system–it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. In freedom–the burden is on the individual practitioner to deliver for the public.

              Are you getting clarity now?

            • Boris Ogon

              A real system of health care would have say 30 doctors with 30 different opinions–all in search of the best case for the patient.

              Real? You think “30 doctors with 30 different opinions” per patient is “real”? That’s going to go over “real” fucking well in any situation where the elusive notion of “time” is involved.

              This is not at all in evidence in America anymore.

              Oh, please, please, tell me when it was “in evidence in America.” Jesus Christ, I can scarcely imagine what other insane fantasies you routinely mistake for having some bearing on reality.

            • David

              I am trying to bring you to point, Boris. A system of real medicine where almost NONE of the practitioners have the faintest idea of what they are doing but all with the same RX is truly a problem. Might you agree? In a scientific endeavor where the reality is very unknown–theoretical modalities are abundant in a real search for the best treatment. But this is squashed by the system–the same system that screams that they have no cause and no cure is the same system that will disparage any other point of view so we have a lot of practitioners all running the same playbook.

              Go to a MD in any place and show certain symptoms and he will put you on the very same regimen as another very unrelated doctor. Please tell me how this is a good outcome for patients?

              Your point about time is lost–perhaps you might wish to state it again. Indeed, poorly trained docs with 7.5 minutes of time cannot assess much but that would be my point….

            • Boris Ogon

              I am trying to bring you to point, Boris.

              No, you explicitly posited “the” “real” system in which there were “30 doctors with 30 different opinions” per patient. This happens to be conclusively diagnostic of being full of shit. Trying to add frosting and jimmies after the fact doesn’t change this.

            • Thirty doctors with thirty opinions? That sounds like bad training. Opinions are bullshit. The only thing that matters is that thirty physicians review the data, then find the evidence for the proper treatment. It’s called science based medicine. You’re advocating bad medicine. Very bad medicine.

              Yes, 30 physicians might come to two different treatment modalities based on real science, but those wouldn’t be opinions.

              The rest of your bullshit rant has no meaning to me. It’s like your wandering all over the place. If you’re stating that Wakefield has EVER used real science, you’re simply full of shit. The only thing that should happen to Wakefield is he’s arrested for mass murder of children in the USA and UK who died from measles because he lied about his results. Which he did. That’s why MR. (he’s no fucking doctor) Wakefield should be in GITMO. As a fucking terrorist.

            • Warren Lauzon

              Maybe 29 of the doctors were Holistic?

            • David

              This is a classic childish remark from someone who simply is not involved in the problem or the process. To say that “data” is decipherable is clearly a joke since “data” that comes from the tiny bit of bloodwork offered by the classic MD says nothing about what is happening to a patient–add other antique modalities like harmful CT scans and mamograms which promote disease or simple urine test a very sick person would pass or bad x-rays–there is no good “data” from the normal MD in the system and this explains why they miss everything and serve the public so poorly.

              If you are right–going to the doctor–getting his quickie tests should explain a whole heck of a lot!! Instead, so many people are simply dead of cancer at age 58 (4 people right around me)–all top doctors or scientists–all taking annual exams and then–pow–they turn up with cancers and they are soon gone in the system.

              In many cases, one must be pathogenic to get a diagnosis. Instead, far more are simply tested and tested to rule out the “disease” the doctor is searching vainly to prove and no explanation is given and this is because the doctor–on his own terms–does not know which tests to order but mostly because they simply lack the background or experience to understand medical issues in the first place. Speak to any refugee from the medical monopoly and they are quick to admit a full 95-98% of their education is worthless.

              And I am surely not here to defend Dr. Wakefiled and his two associates who were among the best doctors in England –but you speak of mass murder here on this board that promotes mass murder?? That is beyond gall. Those who fight so tirelessly for the patients are not the problem here–it is the system “just following the orders” bureaucrats like have conspired to take the greatest nation on the earth with life expectancy and health parameters second only to Switzerland 100 years ago when there was some measure of freedom to DEAD LAST place the industrialized 16 which is why you are so obviously wrong and I am so obviously correct.

              The dead body count is all over the system. Blaming the messengers will simply not bring any one better heath or bring all the dead and wounded back to life.

              This combination or ignorance and arrogance may suit a childish ego. Yet–When it is your family and your own body, you hope for a bit better than a snarky attitude of raw fake fantasy “science” which is not borne out in any facts.

            • Boris Ogon

              This is a classic childish remark from someone who simply is not involved in the problem or the process.

              Oh, David, please share your professional expertise regarding “the problem” and “the process.”

            • David

              So assume one medical condition.. Very tough assumption but let’s assume that…at best..only two approaches? And you celebrate that?..
              I can think of perhaps ten very different approaches to the problem.. Maybe even 20. So if you had that problem.. As I know people with that problem.. You are pleased with the utter failure that comes from a system that offers so little?
              Not solving the problem is great right? Pancreatic cancer…one opinion.. Always fails..go grab that scientific opinion and be dead like everyone else.. Right?
              Real science accepts many approaches and protocols.. The system disallows that basic medical reality.. Stuck on poison based solutions..especially for babies without any health problems at all manufactures health problems so the expensive albatross of the poison based system can grow exponentially while the health of people gets worse and worse..

            • AutismDad

              opinions are bullshit…thanks for the prime example

        • AutismDad

          Have you read the statements from the sites operator skeptical raptor? The guys is certifiable.

      • AutismDad

        manufactroversy…steal that from ORAC you’re hero?

    • lilady R.N.

      I’ve heard of Brian Hooker before. He’s a frequent poster on the crank anti-vaccine blog, Age of Autism.

      In this interview that appeared on AoA, he bragged how he, Andrew Wakefield and the *Geiers wined and dined Congressmen and their wives, to convince them to set up yet another Congressional hearing about the supposed link between vaccines and autism:

      http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/12/brian-hookers-testimony-autism.html

      *Disgraced former medical doctor Mark Geier, whose licenses to practice medicine were revoked in multiple states because he and his son David Geier were chemically castrating and chelating autistic children.

      • Wait. Please tell me you’re making the last bit up. Tell me no one in this modern era is that moronic, or horrific to chemically castrate children. Please.

        • lilady R.N.

          Nope. I’m not making up that tawdry history of Mark and David Geier. They are lower than pond scum.

          http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2013/05/mark-geier-not-leg-to-stand-on.html

          • That makes me want to track them down and perform acts on them that would make Lechter sick.

        • You didn’t know about the Geiers? They are in the same cesspool of sociopathy as Wakefield.

          • So I’m learning. Actually, based on what I’m reading, they are worse than Wakefield.

            But, no, I hadn’t heard of them. Happily, they were under my RADAR for the most part. What I’m learning about them fills me with such rage, I wish they’d continued to do so. I’ve never wanted to track people down and visit physical harm on people as badly as I do the Geiers.

            It’s one thing to not vaccinate your child. I think it’s a stupid, crazy risk, but it’s a dice roll ultimately as to whether a kid gets a VPD, and another if they might die. However it is completely different to chemically castrate, or chelate a child. And now I find out they are the ones to have come up with the fucking bleach enema?!

            If I could get my hands on them, I would do things that would make Himmler say, “You’re a sick bastard.” (Is that a Goodwin?)

        • AutismDad

          Try doing some research. lil lady BS is a consumate troll who twists the information till its unrecognizable.

      • AutismDad

        lil lady BS’s again

  • oh I thoroughly enjoyed this blog post. I have been thinking this whole debacle seemed like something for an episode of bad tv. If it were not reality, it would be funnier. That some people will take it seriously and not get vaccines is frustrating.

  • Ben Fairbanks

    What would be the genre of this movie? Farce? Black humor? Public service announcement? One things for certain. If Rob Schneider is in it, no way am I going to watch it.

    • I am seeing it directed by Sofia Coppola, starring Bill Murray as Will Thompson, Emma Thompson as Julie Geberding, Tim Robbins as Andy Wakefield, and Steve Buscemi as Brian Hooker. It would be dark comedy. PS I have thought about this before.

      • Steve Buscemi as Brian Hooker sounds really good.

        Who plays Orac the Good?

        • How about Bryan Cranston?

        • AutismDad

          Put a talking jackass in that role.

    • No way that Rob Schneider gets to play himself. We’re trying for an Oscar.