Anti vaccine cult uses Hitler’s Big Lie – laughable strategy

 

OK I apologize. I went full-Godwin with the title. In case you don’t know, I’m referring to Godwin’s Law, named after Mike Godwin, who asserted that “as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.” In other words, in an online argument, it’s almost a guarantee that someone will invoke a reference to Hitler or Nazis as the discussion gets more and more heated.

Because I am all about efficiency, I decided to invoke Hitler right in the title. Actually, given some of the antisemitism and hate speech of the antivaccine fanatics, it’s probably not too far off.

Be that as it may, the anti vaccine cult loves the propaganda technique known as the Big Lie, which is a method of stating and repeating a falsehood, then treating it as if it is self-evidently true with the goal of swaying the course of an argument. Eventually, it is hoped by the proponents of the Big Lie, that it will be taken for granted, and not really critically questioned. Hitler, and his Nazi propaganda machine, used the Big Lie to blame all of Germany’s problems, prior to World War II, on Jews, which may have contributed to the German people’s support, either actively or passively, of the Holocaust.

It’s ironic that some of the basic antivaccination ad hominem hate speech tends to be extremely antisemitic, especially towards the publicly Jewish members of the pro-vaccine/pro-science side. It’s doubly ironic that the anti vaccine cult utilizes Nazi propaganda strategies, while claiming that vaccination, especially mandatory vaccination, is somehow a modern day holocaust. Truthfully, there’s really not any mandatory (and certainly not forced) vaccination of anyone in the developed world. There are so many loopholes for those who refuse vaccines through various exemptions, that mandatory is truly not that mandatory.

Of course, comparing vaccinations to the Holocaust is a form of Holocaust denial, just as dangerous as climate change denial, evolution denial, or all other forms of denialism. In this case, comparing vaccination, which saves lives, to the Holocaust (in this definition, the murder of European Jews), which end the lives 6 million innocent human beings, either betrays their lack of knowledge of vaccines and the Holocaust, or worse, that they think the sharp temporary pain of an immunization is somewhat equivalent to the murder of 6 million Jews.

The fact that there is little evidence that anyone has ever died of a vaccination (stay tuned, an article is coming from here, once all the research is done) compared to mountains of evidence that the Holocaust actually happened makes such comparisons ignorant and hateful. Period.

The vaccine cult Big Lie is not just one lie, it’s a series of lies that have been repeated so often that even people who are openminded to vaccines are reluctant to vaccinate their children because they conflate the lie with scientific fact. Let’s go through some of the big ones.

Vaccines have mercury

 

No, they don’t (pdf). They never have had mercury. One vaccine, the multi-dose adult flu vaccine, contains a compound, thiomersal (also known as thimerosal), which is an additive that blocks bacterial growth. Thiomersal is a molecule called ethyl-mercury, which is extremely safe. Elemental mercury, which is the liquid-silver metal that we used to see in thermometers, cannot go into solution, so no one pours mercury into the vat making vaccines.

Ethyl-mercury is a form that is water soluble and envelops the mercury atom, making it relatively safe. In addition, because it’s water soluble, it quickly flushes from the body, so it does not accumulate. If you want a dangerous form of mercury, go eat a can of tuna fish, which contains methyl-mercury and does accumulate in the body. Conflating elemental mercury with these organic forms is either ignorance of basic chemistry or an intentional lie. The end effect is the same–some well-intentioned people wonder if vaccines contain a poison.

Just as an example of how chemistry works, elemental sodium is quite dangerous. Consume that, and you would explode. Elemental chlorine is quite dangerous, a gas that can kill quickly (and ironically was used by the German Army in WWI to kill Allied soldiers). However, you can create a salt from elemental sodium and elemental chlorine, which makes your food tastes better. When I sprinkle table salt on my popcorn, I’m not consuming sodium and chlorine (well, I am, but it’s not going to do anything to me, unless I over consume it).

And thiomersal is unrelated to, and does not cause, any known neurodevelopmental disorder. Moreover, thiomersal containing vaccines are unrelated to autism.

This Big Lie has been so debunked by so many people, it really should be retired from the list of the anti vaccine cult Big Lies–but that’s the thing about the Big Lie, it never hurts to keep repeating it, because some people will think that it’s a fact.

 
 

Vaccines are dangerous

 

No they aren’t. But let me be clear, I don’t think that any medical procedure, including vaccines, are 100% safe 100% of the time.

This absolutist viewpoint is unscientific, but I also do not subscribe to the Nirvana fallacy, that is, if it isn’t perfect, it is worthless.

As we all know, pseudoscience, woo-pushing alternative medicine charlatans claim that their cure for cancer is painless and perfect, while real science based medicine knows that there is no “cure” for cancer, and any specific treatment for a specific cancer has a chance of failure. It also can be difficult and painful. The former will not “cure” cancer of any type, while the latter has a chance to do so.

Despite my caveats about medical procedures, vaccines are extremely safe with amazingly tiny risks of serious adverse events. This particular Big Lie is based on misuse of information.

First, the liars troll vaccine package inserts to find all of the adverse events listed. But vaccine package inserts are a laughably pathetic form of information about vaccines (or truly of any drug). The list of adverse events are just reactions observed during the clinical trial without any information about causality. In the most simple terms, anything that happens, without regards to a true relationship to the vaccine, is listed.

The only way to tie a vaccine to a particular adverse events require a clinical trial or some sort of case-controlled epidemiological study with large numbers that help tell us if there’s a link. In fact, just at a basic level, most of the adverse events listed (except ones that actually are related to vaccines like pain at injection site) are not compared to what might be the background rate of that event in the general population.

I use this analogy to help understand it. The annual risk of a fractured bone in children under the age of 16 appears to be around 180 per 10,000. The risk goes up and down depending on a number of factors. Let’s say a particular vaccine listed in the adverse events that 5 out of 3000 studied also had broken bones.

Oh no! Vaccines cause broken bones. But not really. Setting aside the scientific issue with plausibility, by what mechanism could we imagine a vaccine causing weaker bones, while the numbers are too small to make any kind of statistical conclusion. If you do a study with a million kids, and find that 25,000 had broken bones, a rate above the “normal” population, you might wonder. I might wonder if all confounding factors were controlled, but that’s just me.

So why do package inserts include all that scary stuff? Well, partially it’s a legal/regulatory document that has the function of protecting companies against potential regulatory or legal action. Throw everything in there, just in case it’s really an adverse event. As I mentioned previously, the only way to find real adverse events is to review controlled studies which are powered to separate real adverse events from background noise. Almost everything in a package insert is background noise.

The second “source” for the Big Lies about the dangers of vaccines is dumpster diving through the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) database, which a system to capture patient and physician reports about vaccines. The problem with the database is that it is not scientific. Anyone can report anything, and the system cannot distinguish between causality, correlation and randomness. As the VAERS website states:

VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors.

In simple scientific terms, these are observations, even anecdotes. On the hierarchy of scientific datathis information barely rises above the bottom of the barrel. VAERS can be useful as a tool to see potential issues, but it needs to be confirmed by controlled clinical or epidemiological studies before stating some sort of evidence-based change in vaccination policy. Real scientists do examine the database, and so far, little conclusive information as been found. Unless you like pushing the Big Lie.

No real science-based vaccine proponent will state that vaccines are absolutely safe. But what we will say is that the tiny risks of vaccines are overwhelmed by the scientifically established benefits.

Vaccines didn’t eliminate diseases

 

Read enough of the antivaccine propaganda, and you’ll read Big Lies that not only deny basic science, but also basic history. I consider this particular Big Lie to be one of the most intellectually dishonest of the antivaccination cult, which has a lot of competition in the world of Big Lies. Essentially, the antivaccinationists state, with a straight face, that vaccines did not stop smallpox, polio or name your disease.

Mostly, the vaccine deniers claim that vaccines were irrelevant–nutrition and sanitation conquered all of these diseases. I have no doubt that better nutrition and sanitation had some effect the rate of these diseases, but they couldn’t have actually eliminated them.

But this Big Lie is actually more complicated, much more complicated. The antivaccination gang focuses on the mortality rate of these diseases, which did indeed drop, probably as a result of better medical care available to more children just when the drop happened. But the diseases never went away.

And one more thing–the mortality rate never dropped to zero. For some reason, which drives me nuts, the vaccine deniers quickly dismiss that vaccines might “only” save a few hundred lives from measles. Maybe they think that those few hundred lives are genetically inferior to them–oh wait, I’m going Godwin again.

But there’s actually recent, real-life, evidence of the success of vaccines. The Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib) vaccine, which has been shown to be effective in preventing meningitis in children, was introduced in 1990. The rate of of Hib infection has dropped from 20,000 children (leading to about 1200 deaths) per year in 1990 to around 5500 cases (and 700 deaths) today. The number would be much lower if the Hib vaccination rate were higher. And we can assume that the sanitation system of the USA didn’t suddenly improve from 1990 until today. Nor did our children’s nutrition suddenly improve.

Most people who catch these diseases are vaccinated

 

This Big Lie is based on one the most ridiculous misunderstandings of simple mathematics and statistics. The vaccine deniers will take basic counts, for example 10 people who weren’t vaccinated caught measles, but 25 vaccinated people were infected–they then conclude, and state it forcefully to anyone who will listen, that more people who are vaccinated catch a particular disease.

This ranks as one of the most egregious examples of bad math, which morphs into one of their most beloved of their Big Lies, employed by the antivaccination forces everywhere.

But let’s use some simple math. Let’s use a population of 10,000 people, living in a small town in Nebraska, 95% of whom are vaccinated against whooping cough. So, that means that 500 are not vaccinated, and 9500 are. A whooping cough outbreak occurs because an antivaccine family decides to visit family in an area with endemic pertussis. They come back home with a highly infectious disease.

Pertussis is highly contagious, so let’s assume that the whole town is exposed, and about 50% of the town becomes infected, because even adults are susceptible. That means about 250 unvaccinated individuals would end up being infected with pertussis.

The DtaP vaccine is about 70% effective, meaning about 2850 vaccinated individuals might be susceptible to the disease, and if 50% of the susceptible vaccinated people actually catch whooping cough, we’d expect about 1425 would be eventually become infected, a number that’s appears, on the surface, to be much higher than the unvaccinated group. So those who employ the Big Lie would push these numbers saying, “vaccinated people are more at risk of whooping cough than unvaccinated. Vaccines are really dangerous.”

But that’s not the way to look at it statistically. It’s not the raw numbers that matters, but it’s the risk and rate. In my simple math example, the rate of infection for the unvaccinated is 250 out of 500, a 50% risk. The risk of infection for the vaccinated group is 1425 out of 9500, a 15% risk of contracting the disease. And these basic numbers ignore the fact that children who are vaccinated against whooping cough have a shorter course and lesser severe symptoms of whooping cough than unvaccinated children.

But we need to focus on the rate. The risk of disease falls from 50% to 15%. But the numbers look so much higher for vaccinated individuals 1425 vs. the seemingly low numbers, 250, for the unvaccinated group.

This Big Lie tries to run a feint by misusing the simplest of math, which is ignoring the rate and focusing on the raw numbers, rather than actually doing real science and examining the risk and rate. This Big Lie is so fundamentally bogus that you’d think they would stop. But I see this particular Big Lie over and over in “debates” (there isn’t a debate) about vaccines.

It’s all about Big Pharma profits

 

cost-of-measles-vs-cost-of-mmr-vaccine

This is ridiculous on so many levels. This Big Lie claims that Big Pharma is just out for profits on vaccines, so they, usually in league with the CDC, FDA, WHO, and (place name of your favorite conspiracy organization here). It might make a great story, except it’s ridiculous.

Let’s be clear. Big Pharma, in general, are for-profit organizations. They need to create profits, and they need to sell medicines, supplies, equipment, and devices. It’s capitalism, but Big Pharma provides most of the tools that allow us to live healthier and longer (yes, I have not found much evidence that eating kale shakes will prevent cancer, depression and hair loss).

The Big Lie claims that Big Pharma sets aside everything for the almighty bar of gold. But, Big Pharma isn’t made of one megalomaniac executive, it’s made up of scientists, physicians, engineers, sales people, bean counters, management–thousands upon thousands of people. The implication that some scientist who discovers that smoking weed cures every cancer known to man (no, it doesn’t) and prevents every preventable disease out there, then destroys the evidence so that the Big Pharma corporation can continue to make profits on cancer drugs and vaccines is patently ridiculous.

It’s clear that those who push this Big Lie are bought out cheaply and have no morals, so they apply their moral and ethical code to people who work at Big Pharma. In fact, most Big Pharma companies know that they actually make more and more money if they make products that work, products that don’t harm, and products that save lives.

But let’s assume that the Big Lie is right, and Big Pharma is so immoral that the only thing that matters is pushing vaccines to make money. Well, given the extraordinary cost of researching, manufacturing, marketing and shipping of vaccines, a truly profit- and revenue-driven Big Pharma would probably think that there’s a better way.

In fact, they’d make several times more profits if they quit selling vaccines and focused on providing all of the medications and products for all of those hundreds of thousands of children and adults that end up in hospitals.

Maybe all the money being spent on the antivaccination groups is really funneled in from Big Pharma. I’m not really saying, just saying.

Conclusion, the TL;DR version

 

  1. Vaccines have mercury–Big Lie
  2. Vaccines are dangerous–Big Lie
  3. Vaccines didn’t eliminate disease–Big Lie
  4. Vaccinated people catch diseases more than unvaccinated ones–Big Lie
  5. Vaccines are the most important profit factor for Big Pharma–Double Big Lie

The vaccine deniers really don’t have any real scientific evidence to support their beliefs, so they need to make it a propaganda war (not a debate). They need to push these lies to either make them feel better about putting their children (and everyone’s children) at risk of vaccine-preventable disease, or because they have some underlying personality disorder that makes them feel good about pushing misinformation and outright lies about vaccines.

It’s frustrating, but once you see that it is a Big Lie, maybe we can stop it in its tracks. Because if we suddenly stop vaccinating kids and adults, we will have a real Holocaust of dead and dying humans, not an imaginary, invented one.

Editor’s note: This article was originally published in November 2014. It has been completely revised and updated to include more comprehensive information, to improve readability and to add current research.

Key citations:

 

The Original Skeptical Raptor
Chief Executive Officer at SkepticalRaptor
Lifetime lover of science, especially biomedical research. Spent years in academics, business development, research, and traveling the world shilling for Big Pharma. I love sports, mostly college basketball and football, hockey, and baseball. I enjoy great food and intelligent conversation. And a delicious morning coffee!
  • itisfinished

    I’ve met people who’s kids have become autistic after vaccines. That’s in real life, not your imagination. There are now forced vaccinations in California and Australia is removing welfare if you do no vaccinate. There is an interest in vaccinating us and we all know that these type of interests are related to money. SIDS is vaccine death. A baby just drops dead for no reason, I don’t think so!

    • Anecdotes. But thanks for playing. And there are no forced vaccinations in California or Australia.

      In the former, if you want to send your kids to school, you must protect your children from diseases by vaccinating them. If you want to move out of the state, or not send your kids to school, go for it.

      In Australia, if you want state support, you must vaccinate your children.

      It’s simple dude.

  • itisfinished

    I’ve met people who’s kids have become autistic after vaccines. That’s in real life, not your imagination. There are now forced vaccinations in California and Australia is removing welfare if you do no vaccinate. There is an interest in vaccinating us and we all know that these type of interests are related to money. SIDS is vaccine death. A baby just drops dead for no reason, I don’t think so!

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  • truthseeker

    I’m just going to lay this here….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsnL9yHApIA

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  • jazzteroid

    This author is full of shit, vaccines are doing tremendous harm, the govt is paying millions to them already. Why he would even write this trash is the most interesting question. Who pays him to lie in public like this? Read Bobby Kennedy Jr’s book about thimeresol and Autism. Then, research the CDC whistle blower scandal and the career of Julie Gerberding and others.

  • Andi

    The author states in one paragraph that the mercury is ‘ extremely’ safe and in the next it is ‘relatively’ safe. How ridiculous. In any case, no form of mercury is ever safe. If the author had had a child severely affected by vaccine he would certainly be singing a completely different song. For some of us the damage is undeniable and I could write a lengthy book on it not just a short article.

    • Oh yeah that dismisses everything. And if you had any reading comprehension you’d understand that I never said mercury was either safe or relatively safe or extremely safe. But I know your third grade education is unable to comprehend what constitutes elemental mercury and ethyl-mercury. What a maroon.

  • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

    You’re “research” is lousy. To even produce an article like this with only 3 citations is comical and dangerous, and luckily there are people like myself who don’t fall prey to such lazy writing masked with opinions. Get a day job….in fact, work 24/7 why don’t you so we aren’t subject to your ignorance.

    • Apparently your 3rd reading skills failed you once again. Not sure how you get through life, must be difficult.

      You simply fail to understand the article, because you love the lying liars who lie. It’s all right. We’ll go on without you.

      • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

        So you are only interested in those who agree with your crap research? You are blind leading the blind, which is a lovely thing because competition needs people like you in order to make it in this world. I hope one day you start using your eyes, mouth, and ears in proportion so you can actually learn from those who harbor a wealth of knowledge and resources. Your one sided views alone are frightening because there are surely pros and con’s to all situations, even a child could tell you that. In my opinion, and my experience and knowledge that I received directly from one of the researchers who helped find the polio vaccine, there are more cons than pros especially when it comes to vaccines.

        • I only respect those who bring intelligent commentary and scientific evidence. You bring neither. You’re laughably ignorant. Really, how do you go through life like that.

          • Zeus

            Your copy and pasted articles are very impressive. Your work is being reviewed for plagiarism…talk about laughable and intelligent commentary. You should be skeptical of your writing as should everyone else. I’ve posted more citations in my comments then you have in your so called scientific “research”. And when you ask someone a question, you need to use a question mark, not a period. See my sample below for the proper use of a question mark.

            Skeptical Raptor, will you please put your tampon back in your purse?

            Do you understand now?

  • Pat Taylor

    Which drug company does this site operator represent?

    • I’m the senior janitor at Big Pharma, Inc. I polish their gold bars every day.

      Does that help with your fucking ad hominem ignorance?

      • Pat Taylor

        You most likely polish big pharmas Dicks with your tonsils after they finish with your ass

        • I didn’t know that a poorly raised 12 year old kid could post here. Oh well.

          • Pat Taylor

            Save your college indoctrination of utilizing Godwins Law against every aspect of life which YOU find to be in descent of your own view.

            • Harry T. Bagger

              Oh yes, I see someone else has been “indoctrinated”. I bet EVERYONE else out there is crazy — you are the only sane one, right? Do you sleep with the tin foil on you head or do you have the bedroom safely wrapped ahead of time?

            • Pat Taylor

              No I am not declaring that I have the market of sanity cornered… you are just posing an idiotic question which is further extolling what I already surmise about your intelligence and comprehension.

            • Harry T. Bagger

              I see you’ve busted out your old copy of Hooked on Phonics. That’s awesome.

            • Pat Taylor

              so… all you have is baseless assertions, no substance what-so-ever.
              You have no point to be made.

              Typical Libtard IDIOT – speaking out of both sides of your neck –

            • Harry T. Bagger

              Watch out — black helicopters will soon take you to those Obama FEMA camps! hahahahaha

            • Pat Taylor

              ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

            • Harry T. Bagger

              OMG, I need to show this to my daughter. She’s 15 too!

          • Pat Taylor

            You’ve proven that you speak out of both sides of your neck just like your communist professor taught you to do.

  • JAY

    MY DAUGHTER RECEIVED FOUR VACCINATIONS IN ONE DAY, NOW SHE HAS AN AUTOIMMUNE DISORDER. HER PEDIATRICIAN HAS NOW WAVED HER FROM GETTING ANY FURTHER VACCINES. I WAS NEVER VACCINATED AND I HAVE ONLY BEEN TO THE HOSPITAL 3 TIMES IN MY WHOLE LIFE; BIRTH, STICHES,AND BEING PUT UNDER FOR REMOVAL OF WISDOM TEETH. I’M SURE IT’S A COINCIDENCE. WHY DON’T WE JUST GO BACK TO DRILLING HOLES IN THE HEADS OF MENTALLY ILL PATIENTS AND CALLING THE WORLD FLAT?

    • Drilling holes in the head of patients? Strawman arguments much.

      You’re a liar. Go away. Using caps, spelling like a third grader, and anecdotes. Not very useful.

      • Pat Taylor

        paid shill of the drug company’s GO AWAY

    • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

      I’m so sorry to hear this, Jay. Apparently the owner of this blog is tied in with the vaccine industry therefore can’t think for himself or make an educated and informed decision on anything health related. I am not a medical doctor, but I use vitamin c to fight colds and anything thst comes my way according to Dr. Andrew Saul and Dr. Linus Pauling’s suggested doses. His awesome website gives alternatives to vaccines and there is plenty of research that backs up this claim (ulinke the website). In addition, vitamin c is recognized in the medical industry, however high dose vitamin c may be the most unacknowledged successful research in medicine, according to Dr. Andrew Saul. http://Www.doctoryourself.com

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  • ChadwicktheJones

    I often hear the “too many, too soon” trope in the form of, “they keep adding immunizations to the schedule, but they’re not adjusting the schedule…”.

    • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

      “Here is what they were not telling anyone. By 1964, the year when everyone in the military was supposed to get immunized with an oil-boosted influenza vaccine, the Army already knew the risks this vaccine presented for a very specific type of ill-ness. AFEB’s Colonel Abram S. Benenson had drawn up a list of diseases that investigators should watch out for in veterans injected with the oily flu vaccine at Fort Dix. Benenson’s list read like the contents of a chapter on autoimmune disease in an immunology textbook. It included multiple scle-rosis, myelitis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, uveitis, neuro-dermatitis circumscripta and disseminata, amyloidosis, lupus erythematosus, dematomyositis, scleroderma, chronic pericarditis, Raynaud’s dis-ease, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatoid myositis and acute glomerulonephritis—all of them autoimmune diseases.¹³” Read more: https://www.scribd.com/book/229198432

  • Mike Stevens

    The lie about “most people who get disease X are vaccinated, therefore vaccination is useless” is sometimes effectively countered by saying that the majority of people who die in car accidents are sober.
    Once they have thought about the comparison, and realise their own antivaccine siren song is equivalent of saying it is safer to drive when drunk, the penny sometimes drops.
    Not always though; the cognitive dissonance is usually very strong in these dudes.

    • And, if you’re referring to the usual suspects (not the movie, sadly), then said penny never drops.

    • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

      “More than a hundred U.S. troops who deployed to Iraq in 2003 developed pneumonia; at least two of them died. Many of these cases were “aseptic,” which means they did not result from bacterial infection. An NBC News cameraman, Craig White, developed a transient pneumonia after anthrax vaccination. Later, he tested positive for antibodies to squalene, which has, in the past, correlated with vaccine lots subsequently proven by the FDA to contain this oil. In February 2004, the previous Army Surgeon General, Lt. General James Peake, conceded that some of these pneumonias may be a consequence of autoimmunity. Unknown to most members of the American public, the Secretary of the Army now possesses a patent for a new anthrax “vaccine that allows for its formulation with squalene.

      If that isn’t frightening enough, the Bush administration has just ordered 75 million doses of the new, as yet unlicensed anthrax vaccine—enough to inoculate 25 million unwitting civilians—and has announced its intention to give it to all of us, license or no license, in the event of a broad-based anthrax threat. Of greater concern is the fact that with funding from the NIH, scientists have formulated vaccines for flu, human papilloma virus (to prevent cervical cancer), malaria, HIV and herpes that also contain squalene.” Read more: https://www.scribd.com/book/229198432

  • My favorite anecdote to tell about the package inserts lie is that when I was involved in the Cialis phase IV trials, I walked into a wall while talking on the phone with my head down. One of the study nurses spotted the red mark on my forehead and asked what had happened. Even though I said it came because I wasn’t paying attention to where I was going, my file was opened, and it was listed as an AE. lol. So, if you look at the Cialis package insert (giggity), it lists “May cause walk you to into walls,” as a possible side effect.

    And, yes, the anti-vax crowd puts me into a juvenile mood (when it doesn’t piss me off), hence the obligatory Cialis joke…

    • kellymbray

      It could have been worse than hitting your forehead. You could have been leading the way with your other…………….

    • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

      Where’s your research, or are you just as lazy and ignorant as the rest of the pro vacciners? The most educated people are anti vaccine – and I will quote Dr. Wakefield, the amazing whistleblower who happens to know just a little more about the link between MMR and Autism then your juvenile research.

      • ROFLMAO

        • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

          Big word, R.w. Try picking up a book before you let the entire world know you’re illiterate. If you’re going to read try reading Vaccine A by Gary Matsumoto. This is just 6 years of research for you, and when you put your big kid panties on I’ll share another solid piece of research, and another. Use your brain kid…

          • That was an acronym, dolt. A quick Google search only shows that one book by Matsumoto. The rest of the links mention a musician. You really take medical advice from a jazz player? lmao

            I’ll make a deal with you. When you put the following in your own words, then I’ll believe you know what you’re talking about.

            “Rotavirus infection induces a broad range of circulating and secretory antibody responses as well as cell-mediated immune responses [52]. Attempts to correlate levels of serotype-specific serum neutralizing antibody with the specificity of protection after immunization have failed [10, 34, 53–55]. However, clues regarding the role of serotype specificity in protection against rotavirus disease have been obtained from epidemiologic evidence, vaccination and challenge studies in animals, and experimental vaccination of infants.

            It is frequently stated that the only severe rotavirus infection is the first [3,8, 29], suggesting that serotype cross-reactive antibodies or cell-mediated immune responses can provide protection against all rotavirus serotypes. However, severe rotavirus disease has been recorded in subjects with demonstrable serologic evidence of prior rotavirus infections [56–58]. Although second episodes of severe human disease caused by the same serotype have been reported, sequential rotavirus illnesses have more often been associated with different serotypes [8, 59]. Thus, epidemiologic evidence for the absolute importance of neutralizing antibody is equivocal.

            Differences in conclusions obtained from vaccination and challenge experiments in animals have also never been resolved. Early studies revealed cross-protection between simian and murine rotavirus serotypes in mice [60, 61]. Other studies showed cross-protection between bovine rotavirus and human serotype rotavirus in calves [62] and piglets [63]. The latter supported the use of bovine rotavirus in the first extensive vaccination studies in infants. However, contradictory results were also obtained in some vaccination/challenge studies in animals. Some studies with distinct bovine serotypes in calves and porcine serotypes in swine revealed only serotype-specific immune protection [64, 65]; other studies indicated that cross-protection occurred between serotypes [66, 67].

            The best evidence regarding the importance of neutralizing antibody in protection against rotavirus is that obtained from clinical trial studies with infants. The first of these was performed with the bovine strain RIT 4237, a virus that is serotypically unrelated to human rotaviruses. This vaccine candidate provided protection against human rotavirus disease in early trials conducted primarily in Finland but failed in later trials in developing countries [10–12, 34, 35]. Subsequent studies with the bovine WC3 strain also showed inconsistent protection against human disease [15–17]. Other clinical trials were conducted with the simian RRV strain. RRV is related to a common human rotavirus serotype (G3), and the most consistent protection against rotavirus disease elicited by this vaccine in infants was in trials in which the natural challenge virus was predominantly G3 [13,18–23].”

            Don’t worry about the citation numbers in brackets.

            • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

              You think doing a quick google search is called research?! Buddy, come on! I figured you googled to find your acronym, but using it as a research tool is another story. I’m placing the link here to Gary Matsumoto’s book Vaccine A, which is years of actual research (notice Gary doesn’t use Google. Here are a few resources out of the hundred from this book.

              Specificity of Antibody Response to Squalene

                36. Asa PB, Cao Y, Garry RF [Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Tulane Medical School, 1430 Tulane Avenue, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112], “Antibodies to Squalene in Gulf War Syndrome,” Experimental and Molecular Pathology (2000) Feb;68(1):55-64.

              37. Matyas GR, Wasseff NM, Rao M, Alving CR [Department of Membrane Biochemistry, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, 20910-7500, Silver Spring, MD], “Induction and detection of antibodies to squalene,” Journal of Immunological Methods (2000) Nov 1;245(1-2):1-14.

              38. Alving CR, Grabenstein JD [Walter Reed Army Institute of Research and Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program Office], “RE: Antibodies to squalene in Gulf War Syndrome,” Experimental and Molecular Pathology (2000) Jun;68(3):196-8.

              “Tulane Avenue, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112], “Antibodies to Squalene in recipients of anthrax vaccine,” Experimental and Molecular Pathology (2002) Aug;73(1):19-27.

              41. Matyas G, Rao M, Alving C [Department of Membrane Biochemistry, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, 503 Robert Grant Avenue, 20910-7500, Silver Spring, MD, USA], “Induction and detection of antibodies to squalene. II. Optimization of the assay for murine antibodies,” Journal of Immunological Methods (2002) Sep 15; 267(2):119.

              42. Matyas GR, Rao M, Pittman PR, Burge R, Robbins IE, Wassef NM, Thivierge B, Alving CR [Department of Membrane Biochemistry, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research], “Detection of antibodies to squalene: III. Naturally occurring antibodies to squalene in humans and mice,” Journal of Immunological Methods, (2004) Mar;286(102):47-67.
              […]” Read more: https://www.scribd.com/book/229198432
              […]” Read more: https://www.scribd.com/book/229198432

              There’s some jazz for you.

            • No, dummy. I was referring to that author you mentioned being only found with a mention of the book and as a jazz musician. Here’s a bit of difference for you: When you google Dr. Paul Offit, you get more, and varied results: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Who+is+Paul+Offit%3F

            • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

              Offit the clown? What a joke man. Wowsers, you all have your work cut out for you!

            • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

              ….and what book or journal is your research actually from? Google? Merck Vaccine? You’re really making my point Foster.

            • I’ll answer your question after you complete my challenge. If you can, that is.

  • Rampeds

    The big lies I have heard from parents is that “vaccines are made from aborted fetuses.” Two of the cell lines used to grow vaccine viruses came from two aborted fetuses, but the fetuses were not aborted specifically to make vccines. Also there is a statement from the Vatican that says the benefits of these vaccines outweighs any evil that might have been done by those 2 abortions. Please keep your good work coming!!

  • Chi

    “If your vaccines work then how is my unvaccinated child a danger?” which also goes hand in hand with “Clearly herd immunity is a myth if my child poses such a risk.” Those are two big lies I see all the time on anti-vaxx threads.

    Also it’s not just mercury they go after, it’s the aluminum they use as an adjuvant which is apparently a neurotoxin (totally ignoring the fact that aluminum isn’t a heavy metal and that children who are breastfed get more aluminum from one feed than they do the entire vaccination schedule).

    Basically they’re all like ‘vaccines are full of toxins and poisons’.

    What I can’t get over is how much they go on about the ‘heavy metals’ in vaccines but then willingly ingest colloidal silver which IS a heavy metal?

    Cognitive dissonance much?

    • The “how is my unvaccinated child a danger to yours” is on my top 10 list. And yeah it’s more than just mercury, but it is their favorite.

      Obviously, I need to do a part 2. Thanks!

      • Chi

        Oh and don’t forget the “Vaccines don’t work because the diseases are still in our community” Big Lie. And when you mention smallpox and polio they stoically maintain that both these diseases are STILL around they’ve just been magically ‘reclassified’ by the government. Apparently smallpox is now chicken pox and I’ve never gotten a straight answer as to what polio is now.

        • Mike Stevens

          Take your pick – enterovirus, Guillain Barre, flaccid paralysis, viral meningitis, etc etc
          All disproven, not least by the current lack of demand for iron lungs.

          • Chi

            Flaccid paralysis is the one I hear most often now that I think about it. Though I’ve heard Guillain Barre Syndrome also.

      • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

        Please do some research and prove you’ve done your research before you put together another opinion based article that is all one sided. If you knew anything about vaccines and how they’ve been and are developed you’d be ashamed of yourself for posting this…. Unless of course you are tied to the filthy big pharma industry. Time for me to do more research.

      • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

        How many degrees do you have in biology? Are you a scientist or did you just study medicine?

    • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

      You’re missing the big picture like Foster. Other than your opinion, where is youe adequate research to back up this ignorance?

      • Chi

        I was suggesting Big Lies that are commonly used by the anti-vax crowd when they are trying to argue their point. I have come up against those particular arguments time and time again so am suggesting that Skeptical Raptor tackle those if they do a part two to this entry.

        I am just a stay at home mother. I have a tertiary degree in communication and I did high school biology and chemistry. So when it comes to the science behind vaccines, I refer to this blog which puts the science in reasonably easy to understand terms for us laymen who may not have a scientific background.

        I trust the author of this blog knows what they are talking about. Unlike those who cry they have science on their side when really all they have is anecdotes and big lies designed to scare fence-sitters away from vaccinating.

        And Wakefield was a HUGE fraud. He was being paid to sue the makers of MMR and was developing his own. Conflict of interest much?

        • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

          Roughly a hundred people have died from measles this year, so that the media has projected. My research and others have found that OVER a HUNDRED THOUSAND people die from prescribed drugs a year. Now tell me, what’s the epidemic here, Chi? I don’t see the government, FDA, AMA, CDC, or big pharma scrambling to put end to this outrageous epidemic. But wait! They are rushing to pump America with vaccines to stop the trivial measles. They want to save you from measles!!! Think. Use thy brain. Read. Research Dr. Marcia Angell, Dr. Andrew Saul, Dr. Linus Pauling. Then connect thy dots. Then read some more. You’ll get there one day.

          PS. When you call someone a fraud, you should back up your claims with some actual research. Dr. Wakefield is one of many whistleblowers. He could have made a fortune by keeping his mouth shut…enlighten me and tell me why he went through hell, left his job – what did he gain??? Come on now, buddy.

          • Chi

            Oh yes because measles is so ‘trivial’. Kids die from measles. Then there are the ones who are left permanently deaf or blind from it. Trivial?

            Also, Wakefield didn’t ‘leave’ his job. His license to practice medicine was REVOKED by a council of his peers. Looks like you need to stop kissing his ass and clear your head.

            • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

              How many people have died from measles since 1963? It’s basic math that even you can handle.

            • Chi

              So you’re saying the German baby who died earlier this year is ‘trivial’? Wow, you are so callous. You want everyone to believe that the vaccines are worse than the diseases they help prevent.

              I’m done with you now.

            • Zeus

              Chia-pet, I said measles is a trivial disease. I didn’t say anything about a German babies death being trivial….wake up! So what are your thoughts on the hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by prescribed medications, or are you only touched by a few deaths?

              My heart goes out to all children.

            • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

              You talk a lot. You’re like a rambling soccer mom without a child. Where do you get your information from, The Onion?! Haha!!!!

            • disqus_VIWgnVFkyh

              Chi, children are more likely to get murdered then to contract and die from measles (ages 1-4). Seriously man, measles doesn’t even make the top 10 list, according to the CDC National Vital Statistics System, National Center for Health, CDC, article: 10 Leading Causes of Death Per Age Group, United States 2010.

              My heart goes out to those who have died from vaccines, diseases and the extremely rare case of death by measles.